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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2014, 6:59 AM
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1overcosc 1overcosc is online now
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So it's simply later hours.

In other cities, 'night market' refers to a large scale shopping event that's much more destination-y than a simple market--people will browse around, eat a bunch of stuff, walk around marvelling at things, etc. instead of just simply buying their crap and going. It's more like a festival than a market. AND THEY HAPPEN AT NIGHT. 11pm, midnight, into the small hours.

A bunch of market stalls simply staying open until 9pm is NOT a 'night market'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_market
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 5:25 PM
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The ByWard Market may be headed for extinction, farmers warn

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 29, 2014, Last Updated: October 1, 2014 4:47 PM EDT


The ByWard Market, among the largest and longest-running farmers’ markets in Canada, is on the decline, and some fear it is headed for extinction.

Competing neighbourhood markets, scarce and expensive parking, construction and over-regulation, they believe, are conspiring to empty its sidewalks of produce growers and vendors.

It is a rare day when the outdoor stalls reserved for farm products, plants and flowers are much more than half filled, while otherwise unused stands are given over to craft sellers or automobiles.

In the last four years, the number of agri-food retailers in the Market’s outdoor stalls dropped by 22 per cent, from 86 to 67.

The trend has enormous implications for Ottawa. About 90 per cent of the 10 million tourists who visit the capital each year shop in the ByWard Market, and the farmers’ stalls are a large part of the area’s charm.

The farmers market, established in 1826, is also a rich part of Ottawa tradition and culture. The ByWard Market is a rare combination of fresh produce stands, stores, restaurants and nightlife that is popular with everyone, notes Ottawa architect and urban designer Barry Padolsky, who calls it “the National Capital’s universally loved meeting place.”
“It’s remarkable for its urbanity, human scale, history and gritty sensuality. You can’t find a place like this on Facebook. We need to conserve it forever and enhance it.”

Farmers say business is steadily declining. Justin Cleroux laments the loss of customers as he arranges produce in his Market stall. Only 20, he comes from a long family line of ByWard Market merchants. His parents used to run a pair of stands while his grandfather, who was actually born in one of the stalls, operated three.

“Now, most of the time, one is too much,” he says. “We lose 50 per cent of our customers from one year to the next, and that’s been steady for the eight years I’ve been here.” He motions to the row of white tented stalls along ByWard Market Street. “This will be gone in two years,” he says. “Three at the most.”

Many farmers and vendors — “vendors” being the term used to denote re-sellers of produce, as opposed to growers — share Cleroux’s concern, if not quite his dire prediction.

From his father’s maple syrup stand at the corner of ByWard Market and George streets, Ross Valenta has noticed a “massive” decline in passersby in the past four years.

“It used to be an adventure just to get from one end of the market to the other, but not anymore.”


THE PARKING PROBLEM

The scarcity of parking in the ByWard Market, or at least the perception of it, has always been a major hurdle to attracting shoppers to the area. “There’s no parking and when there is, the meter maids get you right away,” Valenta says. “And it’s expensive. Little things like that. Also, a lot of people don’t want to deal with the panhandlers here. They’re out here like flies and they’re everywhere. You can shoo them away that they’ll just be back in another hour.”

Chantal Brazeau, who works at Vars farmer Hérve Lacroix’s stall, says the city needs to provide more parking or be more lenient in its enforcement. “They say they want to bring people in, but boy, oh boy, the city’s making a lot of money on the parking tickets. They’re like hawks.”

She agrees that the ByWard Market has not long to live. “I’d say between five and 10 years,” she says. “There’s been a lot of decline, for sure, and in 10 years there will just be people selling clothes and jewelry from Montreal. Lots of crafts.”

Retired Gatineau school principal Jacques Pelletier, who has been going to the Market since his grandfather brought him as a youngster, wonders why Ottawa can’t adopt a system similar to the one used at Montreal’s Jean-Talon Market, where underground parking costs just 50 cents for the first half hour, with more expensive rates kicking in after that.

“Why couldn’t they do that here?” he asks, pointing to the swath of meters along York Street between Sussex and ByWard. “Close that off and make it the farmers’ market parking.”

Seven or eight years ago, Pelletier and his wife started volunteering at a produce stand on Saturdays in September and October, mostly for a lark. For the past three years, though, Pelletier, 62, has worked three days a week at Hawkesbury farmer Francois Legault’s produce stall at the north end of the market building. He is convinced the Market is on extremely precarious footing.

“The Market is dying. There are a lot of other markets now. People go to the Main Street Market on the weekends. They go to Parkdale. They don’t come into Centretown.


THE COMPETITION

Most agree that the ByWard Market has been hurt by the growth and popularity of neighbourhood farmers markets elsewhere in the city, a trend that really took hold with the opening of the Ottawa Farmers Market at Lansdowne Park in 2006. The Sunday-only market began with just 19 farmers, but now boasts more that 100 producers.

Single-day markets favour smaller producers who may lack the resources to maintain a daily stand, and rents at these markets are often lower than those at the ByWard and Parkdale markets, the operations of which are overseen by the City. Neighbourhood markets also typically offer free parking.

Following the success of the Ottawa Farmers Market, other similar markets have opened in neighbourhoods across the city, further dividing the economic pie.

“Everyone that opens up is just taking a little bit away,” says Isaac Farbiasz, owner of ByWard Fruit Market, a longtime Market store.

“When we took over here 15 years ago, you could not walk down the sidewalk on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, from morning to night. It was pretty much impossible; it was packed. But then there were only two markets — ByWard and Parkdale. Now there are about 20, and more pop up all the time.”

For indoor produce merchants like Farbiasz, most of the sales come in the off-summer months. And the loss of income from weekend suburban customers has largely been offset by an increase in the number of shoppers who live nearby, as highrise condominiums have sprung up around the Market. Still, he suffered sales declines in June and July this year, a first in his decade-and-a-half in the Market, notwithstanding periods of street construction.

Farbiasz recognizes that the decline of farmers and produce vendors in the Market might not be beneficial to his business, either. “When you lose competition, you lose a draw, and that’s too bad.”

He’s trying to remain optimistic, but says he wouldn’t be surprised if the farmers market at the ByWard Market ended its nearly 200-year run sometime in the next five to 10 years.

“If you’re producing, it’s not too bad,” he notes. “But if you’re buying and selling, it’s not that easy, and the number of people selling is going down yearly. And a lot of these people are getting to the age where they’re going to retire, and who’s going to take over? It doesn’t pay.

“It’s like all things. (The ByWard Market) has to be revitalized. But it’s also possible that it’s the end.”

Brazeau says that if the city is serious about helping the farmers in the ByWard Market, it should consider allowing just the producers to sell fruits and vegetables when they’re in season, leaving the re-sellers to offer only out-of-season produce and items not grown in the area, such as peaches.

Otherwise, she says, there’s simply not the incentive for farmers to set up stalls. “There’s no one who wants to run these stands after the owners retire. The work is hard and the hours are long, and business has gone down because there are not as many buyers as before because of all the different markets.”

At International Cheese & Deli, meanwhile, 35-year owner Eddy Saikaly has been watching the Market change for decades. Like Farbiasz, he now counts on the nearby condos for most of his business — 80 per cent, he says — but doesn’t believe the death knell for the farmers’ market is imminent.

“I don’t think the stalls will disappear. Some people leave, some other people will come. But there are too many restrictions, too many laws. ‘You cannot do this, you cannot do that.’ The city has to be more flexible with everybody.”

That’s easier said than done. The city’s requirement that all stand-owners display signs indicating whether they are producers or re-sellers, for example, has met with varying responses. Growers have welcomed the distinction, as have shoppers who want to buy locally grown produce, while re-sellers might prefer that information remain less clear. Farbiasz, for one, believes the signage might ultimately attract more farmers to the Market and help reinvigorate the area.

If it were just a matter people buying apples elsewhere, then market forces would take care of the matter. But the ByWard Market is peculiarly situated as Ottawa’s second-most popular attraction, after the Parliament Buildings, and the farmers’ market there is vital to the city’s tourism industry.

“Tourists don’t often buy from us,” admits Pelletier, whose gourds, plants and pumpkins make awkward carry-on luggage, “but if I got a dime for every picture that was taken of this stand, I’d be rich.”

But the market, of course, is also beloved by people who live in Ottawa. Leonie Maciag, an Ottawa native now living and working in China, comes to the Market whenever she’s back in town. “I would hate to see it disappear. It’s part of my childhood, part of my life. And I think having it here, not just for me but for the tourists, it really represents Ottawa.

“I love the atmosphere, people are friendly. It kind of brings a sense of community to the area, and I think that’s really important.”
Stephanie Henderson, a university student living in Centretown, has been shopping regularly in the Market since she moved to Ottawa from Osgoode seven years ago. “What I like about shopping in the market is that everything tastes better,” she says. “There’s no way you can compare a cherry tomato that you buy here with something that you buy at the grocery store; it’s sweeter, it’s more flavourful and honestly, at two baskets for five dollars, it’s cheaper than you can buy at the grocery store, and they’re better.”

Marc Aubin, past president of the Lowertown Community Association and current candidate for Ottawa city council, says that numerous issues are to blame, including years of road construction in the area, the cost of renting stalls, the continued encroachment in the Market by restaurants and bars — the community association, he says, estimates that such establishments account for 20,000 seats in the Market — and what he sees as a lack of vision at City Hall about what locals and tourists want from the ByWard Market.

“A lot of people feel that the quality of everything in the market has diminished. Like these other stalls selling garments and trinkets. I was walking by them this summer and was appalled. I thought, ‘Here we are in the national capital of Canada — and one of the distinguishing features of the ByWard Market should be that it says Canada — and they’re selling these trinkets that I could buy in the Caribbean.’

“There’s nothing that says Canada when you look at that stuff, or really anything that I find attractive to buy as a local or as a tourist. One of the accusations is that the ByWard Market is turning into a tourist trap, but now they’re selling stuff that I don’t even think tourists want. So you start to question the whole package together.”

City councillor Mathieu Fleury, whose Rideau-Vanier ward includes the ByWard Market, says the City of Ottawa has implemented some new initiatives with the hope of reversing the downward trend, with an eye to having changes in place by 2017, in time for Canada’s 150th anniversary. Among those are Thursday-night shopping, an outdoor demonstration kitchen, and a stall, manned by Savour Ottawa, featuring produce not found at the other stalls, such as eggs, pies, honey, cider, sheep’s milk products, cranberries and cheeses, typically from organic producers too small to maintain stands of their own.

“The season will be over shortly,” says Fleury, “and then we’ll sit down with farmers, arts and crafts people and city staff, and see where this can go next year. We’d like to pilot more projects, and we’re always looking for ways to support our local farmers.”

Fleury said that he’d like to see the city hand over the running of the ByWard Market to a not-for-profit group that would, hopefully, be made up of farmers. “We want to enable them to thrive, and for us to do so, it’s not by working out of an old bylaw, because an old bylaw is very restrictive.”
Fleury adds that he hopes the renewal plan for the ByWard Market will include changes that have succeeded elsewhere, such as at Marché Jean-Talon.
“We want to redefine the public spaces. We want to put the parking underground on York Street and around ByWard. We have to support that sort of thing. It’s an amazing city asset, it’s historic, and for us it’s creating that balance of local, touristic and nightlife.

“If you have this offering of products across the city, then what’s your reason to come to the ByWard Market? What’s special? And that’s what we have to continue to evolve in our discussion.”

bdeachman@ottawacitizen.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...n-farmers-warn
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 11:06 PM
acottawa acottawa is online now
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It's a good article, but I think the vendors need to work on their business model a bit. More parking is not going to bring back the suburbanites that came to the market 15 years ago. They can to go many markets with better parking (or farm boy).

I think the need to think about how to capitalize on what they have (tourists and condo owners). They might be able to attract condo owners with later hours (by the time people are returning from work most of the vendors have closed).

Tourists might be attracted with individual items (apples, a bag of cut vegetables, etc) or with cross-promotion with restaurants in the market (list the restaurants that shopped there that day, for example).

I especially think they should get rid of the permanent stalls, not only because they're ugly, but lack flexibility. I think they should either kick the fast food joints out of the market building and use the market for food (like Jean Talon or St Lawrence) or have the vendors set up temporary locations (the way most markets in Europe work).
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 11:40 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
It's a good article, but I think the vendors need to work on their business model a bit. More parking is not going to bring back the suburbanites that came to the market 15 years ago. They can to go many markets with better parking (or farm boy).

I think the need to think about how to capitalize on what they have (tourists and condo owners). They might be able to attract condo owners with later hours (by the time people are returning from work most of the vendors have closed).

Tourists might be attracted with individual items (apples, a bag of cut vegetables, etc) or with cross-promotion with restaurants in the market (list the restaurants that shopped there that day, for example).

I especially think they should get rid of the permanent stalls, not only because they're ugly, but lack flexibility. I think they should either kick the fast food joints out of the market building and use the market for food (like Jean Talon or St Lawrence) or have the vendors set up temporary locations (the way most markets in Europe work).
I agree. I think using the market building like St. Lawrence Market would be ideal. They've really revitalized the surrounding area as well, and it's a place that not only brings in nearby locals, but residents in outlying neighbourhoods, and even tourists.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them:
- close off a portion of the streets around the market building to traffic
- replace the parking garage north of the market building with a possible extension (or annex) to the market building.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 2:39 AM
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What bugs me the most about the market is the number of cars, and how poorly they are handled. The cars aren't going away, and there are plenty of deliveries to be made, but forcing pedestrians to cross George street at two signals is ridiculous. All the pedestrians have already crossed by the time the light turns red, and then all the cars sit and wait. Stop signs and slow but moving traffic would be much more pleasant for pedestrians and drivers.
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 3:20 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Hardly a timely article on the Citizen's part. The Byward Market, as a market, has been in decline for thirty years or more.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 4:04 AM
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Last edited by Urbanarchit; Aug 27, 2015 at 5:29 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 5:47 PM
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Interesting post on 613Style from November 2nd, 2014:

It's suggested that...
Quote:
...a wealthy Toronto developer has bought 2 or 3 buildings with the intent to open luxury stores. Whether or not these flagships will be independent or franchise locations of globally known brands like Neiman Marcus remains in question. One thing’s for sure though, whatever’s coming will definitely shake up the Byward market’s retail landscape.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by citydwlr View Post
Interesting post on 613Style from November 2nd, 2014:

It's suggested that...
Well, it seems safe to say that it won't be a Neiman Marcus. I question how "luxury" it could be when Ottawa's money crowd tends to avoid the Market.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 8:06 PM
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I wonder if the old Expedition is one of the spaces that could've been purchased. It's quite large inside!
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 8:18 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is offline
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Well, it seems safe to say that it won't be a Neiman Marcus. I question how "luxury" it could be when Ottawa's money crowd tends to avoid the Market.
I agree. I was a little thrown off with the Neiman Marcus comment - Any NM store I've seen has been a large department store along the lines of Nordstroms...

Several months ago Strellson mentioned it was looking to set up a flagship location in Ottawa, possibly outside the Rideau Centre. I believe it was a Toronto-based brokerage firm that was involved in bringing it up here.

I think if the supposed location of these "luxury" stores are on the strip of York closest to Sussex, the stores might do alright. As teej1984 mentioned, Expedition Shop recently closed, and I also read that Zaphod's would potentially close (the owner is retiring). So, those might be the buildings in question...
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 10:37 PM
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 1:25 AM
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New York Times - A Sleepy Ottawa Neighborhood Wakes Up
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/tr...-wakes-up.html

Wine Rack? lol
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
New York Times - A Sleepy Ottawa Neighborhood Wakes Up
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/tr...-wakes-up.html

Wine Rack? lol
Quote:
After hours, it turned notoriously sleepy
What? Ok, so it's not New York, but common!!
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 1:42 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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It's the same paper that discovered last week that Cuban culture had been "opened". I wouldn't take their view of the Market to heart.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
New York Times - A Sleepy Ottawa Neighborhood Wakes Up
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/tr...-wakes-up.html

Wine Rack? lol
This article has resulted in an incredible amount of snark directed at the New York Times. But the author is a freelance travel writer who lives in Montreal.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2015, 9:44 PM
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That would explain it.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2015, 2:43 AM
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ByWard Market is better than N.Y. Times description — but it's facing major problems

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 19, 2015, Last Updated: January 19, 2015 7:32 PM EST


Apart from providing the city with the opportunity for a collective guffaw, the recent and largely risible New York Times travel piece on the ByWard Market reminded us how much we love the historic neighbourhood.

It’s OK for us to complain about everything from the parking — whether you think there’s not enough or that we should get rid of it all — to the lack of outdoor public space. But when an outsider takes a shot at our beloved ByWard, we all rush to its defence.

That’s as it should be, especially in this case, where the travel writer gushes over the presence of a Wine Rack store in the market and refers to the historic neighbourhood as being “notoriously sleepy” after hours. Sleepy? Do the drunken revellers look particularly tired lately? Because if there’s any time that the market comes to life during these cold months, it’s after hours.

But the fact is, there’s plenty wrong with the ByWard Market which, if left unattended any longer, is in danger of losing everything that makes it special to us.

Retailers are moving out or shutting down, from the storied Domus restaurant and kitchen store to Philip Van Leeuwen modern furniture shop. The former Pier 21 restaurant at the corner of Murray Street and Parent Avenue — boasting one of the more expansive patios in the market — has been shuttered for more than a year.

While businesses come and go in every community, the market is certainly less vibrant than it should be during daytime hours in the non-tourist season. There isn’t enough public space (it’s a bit frustrating to buy a tasty $6 La Bottega panino only to discover there’s nowhere to sit outdoors to enjoy it) and the streetscaping can sometimes look downright dowdy. One of the two city-owned properties in the market is a multi-level parcade, a poor use for such a centrally located building.

The produce and flower stands that have historically put the market into ByWard have decreased by a third in recent years. A city- and business-funded report on the future of the farmer’s market carried out by a New York consultancy two years ago warned that “if nothing is done, the city is in danger of losing the public market forever.”

So what’s been done since that 2013 doomsday report was released? Not much, at least publicly. But behind the scenes, city staff have been chipping away at a council directive to create a new non-profit governance structure that would run both the outdoor farmers’ market area, as well as the ByWard Market building, which has been privately managed. The city is expected to consult the public this spring before tabling a report to council that will address creating a new non-profit umbrella organization and include a review of the current bar and nightclub bylaw and improvements to the public area surrounding the market building (namely George, York, ByWard Market and William streets).

“Tied into this, there’s city investments in the renewal of the sidewalks, the light fixtures, the streetscape experience,” says Coun. Mathieu Fleury, who represents the ByWard Market and is arguing for major investments in the district. “That’s a really big piece, especially leading up to 2017.”

But the market isn’t just, well, the market. Tourists (and weekend revellers) flock to the area for good restaurants and bars, although the outdoor stalls are a huge attraction, too. The problem is that tourists staying in hotels don’t buy local kale or flats of impatiens. Those growers sell to locals, and to attract local folks to the market each day throughout the day, ByWard has to offer a wide variety of goods and services not available elsewhere.

“The two are intrinsically linked and rely on each other,” says ByWard Market BIA director Jasna Jennings of the farmers’ stalls and independent businesses. “It’s very difficult to be everything to everyone.”

In fact, it’s almost impossible. The market may have too many restaurants and bars, as some have alleged, but you can’t make a food retailer — or any sort of retailer — move into the area. It will be difficult to manufacture a balance between the food, entertainment and the everything-else factors that are needed to revitalize ByWard. There’s only so much a government can or should do to intervene in free-market forces.

But what the city can and must do is address the public infrastructure in the market. Where are the attractive paving stones on sidewalks and roadways? Where’s the public seating? Streetlights that would add not just to the aesthetic appeal of the market, but to its safety? We need to rethink the use of the city’s parking garage, drive cars underground (because we still need parking in the market) and reimagine York Street as a public venue area instead of a parking lot.

Revamping the area immediately around the ByWard Market outdoor stalls is a good start. But let’s use our upcoming sesquicentennial as an excuse to think — and act — bigger for one of our favourite areas of the city.

jchianello@ottawacitizen.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-col-chianello
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2015, 12:47 PM
acottawa acottawa is online now
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My market wishlist

Reasonably affordable/feasible

1. Fix it up - better paving, street furniture, garbage collection, etc.
2. Get better stalls
3. Kick the fast food joints out of the market building - move the food vendors there
4. Close most of York and Clarence to traffic after about 11 am (and move Hertz to George side)
5. Encourage restaurant owners and food sellers do cross promotions
6. Once LRT opens, point out there is free parking downtown on weekends
7. Security cameras

Less feasible, but still I think good ideas

8. Tear down the garage on Clarence - restore streets and sidewalks to proper widths, build a more suitable building that would draw visitors.
9. Build an underground garage (maybe under York)
10. Relocate at least one of the homeless shelters
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2015, 1:30 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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One thing the market district needs is for a greater number of the businesses to keep significantly longer hours or develop shared storefront models

It seems to me no matter what time of the day you go significant numbers of businesses are closed. If you go during the day there are tons of the night club type places that are not open and then if you go at night most of the vendors/stores etc are closed. It creates a really dead feel.

If it is not feasible for a business to be open at different hours they should look at sharing store fronts. For instance a night club is not going to be open during the day, but perhaps the space could be used for something else (say a coffee shop or vendor of some sort) and then at a certain hour that is packed away and the space reverts to the other use.
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