Ottawa's Cultural/Behavioural Traits

[Acajack]

Pucker up Ottawa!

Just wondering, do you and your family. friends and acquaintances do the "kiss on both cheeks" thing when you meet/leave each other?

Ottawa is basically at the interface between the "Canada that does it" and the "Canada that doesn't", and I was wondering what your observations were.

My view of things in Ottawa is skewed because most Ottawans I frequent are Franco-Ontarians.

Also comment on woman-man, woman-woman and man-man cheek kissing if you have anything to share on this.

Gros bisous à tous!

[Schattenjager]

I'm franco-ontarien and I grew up in Orléans. I also went to École secondaire publique Louis-Riel in Blackburn Hamlet which had French students from all over Ottawa. None of my friends ever kissed cheeks and it was definitely something I had to get used to when I started crossing the river once I turned 18 and started making friends there.

I would say that most Generation Y and late-Generation X franco-ottawans don't kiss cheeks unless you were raised in Gatineau at one point or somewhere else in Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Schattenjager

I'm franco-ontarien and I grew up in Orléans. I also went to École secondaire publique Louis-Riel in Blackburn Hamlet which had French students from all over Ottawa. None of my friends ever kissed cheeks and it was definitely something I had to get used to when I started crossing the river once I turned 18 and started making friends there.

I would say that most Generation Y and late-Generation X franco-ottawans don't kiss cheeks unless you were raised in Gatineau at one point or somewhere else in Quebec.

Many of the Franco-Ontarians I have in my family and entourage are Ontario-born and most have never lived in Quebec but it is true that a lot of them are Quebec-influenced.

Some Franco-Ontarians are more Franco-ontarian, whereas others are more franco-Ontarian. Sounds weird but you at least probably know what I mean.

So that might be it.

[Chris-R]

I married into a Franco-Ontarien family and the cheek-kiss is definitely something I had to get used to.

[Schattenjager]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Some Franco-Ontarians are more Franco-ontarian, whereas others are more franco-Ontarian. Sounds weird but you at least probably know what I mean.

I'm definitely more Ontarian. Even though my Father grew up in Old Hull and my Mother grew up in Overbrook, we never really watched French TV nor listened to French music and I think that had a lot to do with it.

Also, my schools were very strict when it came to speaking French and listening to French music so I think it had a reverse effect. It became "cool" to speak English.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I only do it with certain family members and friends and few of them that I do the cheek kiss with are francophones.

[AuxTown]

I'm an anglo from Saskatchewan originally and really never felt quite comfortable with the man-man cheek kiss but occasionally will partake in the man-woman version with my franco friends. More awkward are the triple cheek kisses that I have to endure with my wife's Greek family!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I'm an anglo from Saskatchewan originally and really never felt quite comfortable with the man-man cheek kiss

Do you actually see francophone Canadians doing man-man cheek kissing?

[Acajack]

Just wondering about exposure and its effects...

Is an anglo-Ottawan who works at Portage or even a downtown Ottawa federal office with lots of francophones more likely to do it than his brother who lives in Barrhaven, works in hi-tech in Kanata and rarely leaves the west end?

[Postmaster]

I'm a Franco-Ontarien and I've rarely encountered this. My dad's parents were both French but he grew up in Sandy Hill, so mostly Anglo tendencies I'd say. My mom is more French than my dad was, but we still don't see the kissing thing much except perhaps on Christmas.

[bikegypsy]

Yep, I do both cheek kissing to women as long as they are western, French African (but not Muslim) and from Latin America... I travel a lot; I spend more time abroad than in Canada. This is a touchy subject for Asian women as they express feelings in a more conservative way.

In my old Franco Ontarian highschool, most guys and girls used to cheek kiss each other.

My English canadian female friends are used to it now and have come to expect it; they look very happy to do it.

I will do the 2 cheek kissing to some guys such as very close friends, my father and my brother.

Born in Quebec, grew up in Ottawa and spent some time in Montreal.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Yep, I do both cheek kissing to women as long as they are western, French African (but not Muslim) and from Latin America... I travel a lot; I spend more time abroad than in Canada. This is a touchy subject for Asian women as they express feelings in a more conservative way.

In my old Franco Ontarian highschool, most guys and girls used to cheek kiss each other.

My English canadian female friends are used to it now and have come to expect it; they look very happy to do it.

I will do the 2 cheek kissing to some guys such as very close friends, my father and my brother.

Born in Quebec, grew up in Ottawa and spent some time in Montreal.

But one cheek only in Latin America.

Gays guys in Ottawa do the two cheek thing pretty regularly, but I'd say man-man in public is extremely rare otherwise.

Pet peeve - air kisses. If people are going to do it, I think there has to be lip/cheek or cheek/cheek contact, otherwise it seems insincere, imho.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Yep, I do both cheek kissing to women as long as they are western, French African (but not Muslim) and from Latin America... I travel a lot; I spend more time abroad than in Canada. This is a touchy subject for Asian women as they express feelings in a more conservative way.

In my old Franco Ontarian highschool, most guys and girls used to cheek kiss each other.

My English canadian female friends are used to it now and have come to expect it; they look very happy to do it.

I will do the 2 cheek kissing to some guys such as very close friends, my father and my brother.

Born in Quebec, grew up in Ottawa and spent some time in Montreal.

This thread illustrates the duality that exists in the Franco-Ontarian community, between the "capital Fs" and the "capital Os".

Reading your post I can't help but wonder if you didn't go to Samuel-Genest, which seemed to me to be the most "capital F" francophone high school in Ottawa.

Perhaps not so much today (it's more like the others I think), but I always had that impression when I was younger. That its student body and the families they came from were more Quebec-oriented and also oriented towards the international francophonie. And thus more likely to engage in cheek-kissing!

But maybe it's just an impression.

[OTSkyline]

I am a Franco-Ontarien and French is my first language. Grew up in Northern Ontario speaking French and going to French school but there are no cheek kisses...

The only time where we would have the "cheek kisses" is when I would have family from Quebec visit us then everytime we would say hello or by "cheek kiss, cheek kiss", which was now expected but we knew we only did it with them...

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This thread illustrates the duality that exists in the Franco-Ontarian community, between the "capital Fs" and the "capital Os".

Reading your post I can't help but wonder if you didn't go to Samuel-Genest, which seemed to me to be the most "capital F" francophone high school in Ottawa.

Perhaps not so much today (it's more like the others I think), but I always had that impression when I was younger. That its student body and the families they came from were more Quebec-oriented and also oriented towards the international francophonie. And thus more likely to engage in cheek-kissing!

But maybe it's just an impression.

Charlebois, preceded by 7 years au Lycee Claudel. My brother actually attended Samuel Genest.

As you know, birds of a feather flock together, and the student body at Charlebois in the mid 80s was big enough to have large groups of all sorts including lots of Europeans. Lots also from French speaking north Africa and Lebanon, even Egypt. I would say that a large minority of people gave the double kiss cheeks when meeting after weekends for example. When I come across an old Charlebois school mate, I can tell she expects the double cheeks. I find that as I grow older, the more I enjoy doing these little things; la galanterie, just like we begin to understand and appreciate wine.

I find it fun when I'm in the states and just go right in there to give the double cheek to a lady; they simply love it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I find it fun when I'm in the states and just go right in there to give the double cheek to a lady; they simply love it.

I have also noticed this. It's funny when people think that stuff that is completely normal and banal to you is... exotic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Charlebois, preceded by 7 years au Lycee Claudel. My brother actually attended Samuel Genest.

As you know, birds of a feather flock together, and the student body at Charlebois in the mid 80s was big enough to have large groups of all sorts including lots of Europeans. Lots also from French speaking north Africa and Lebanon, even Egypt. I would say that a large minority of people gave the double kiss cheeks when meeting after weekends for example. When I come across an old Charlebois school mate, I can tell she expects the double cheeks.

In the 1980s and into the first part of the 1990s, Samuel-Genest was sort of the poor-man's Lycée Claudel. (Not that the families were generally poor - but it was a cheaper alternative.) Many ambassadors' kids went there, as did Jean Chrétien's son as well (Chrétien was a Minister at the time.)

Charlebois does not exist anymore as you probably know, and the francophone schools that replaced it in that part of Ottawa are now more diverse than ever before.

Interestingly enough, the vast majority of the people I know who went to Samuel-Genest (and also De La Salle and some others) and who know live in central Ottawa inside the Greenbelt (ie those who have not settled in Orleans or the Quebec side) send their kids to Lycée Claudel today.

They say that Samuel-Genest, De La Salle, etc. aren't "like they used to be". Not sure if that is elitist double-speak or anything like that... Many of the people who say these things aren't of French Canadian origin themselves, and are of various origins like North African, Lebanese, Haitian, Asian, French, Belgian, Swiss, Portuguese, etc.

It's quite obvious that in my generation (late 30s to early 40s) there is a significant "flight" of élite francophone families from the public schools (including the Catholic schools here) in Ottawa-inside-the-Greenbelt towards Lycée Claudel.

You don't see this so much in Orléans where the vast majority of kids go to the publicly funded schools (public or Catholic).

[J.OT13]

I am French-Canadian, born in Ottawa raised in Gatineau. At home we read and watch TV in English. My mother was raised in Overbrook and my father is a Québecois turned sort of Ontarian. I've certainly never done it and I can't recall anyone on my mothers side who does (but maybe some of the more Quebecer ones) but on my dad's side, I think the Franco-Ontarians do it.

I have a few female friends in QC (one who went to one of the English High Schools on the QC side) who also do it. I don't remember anyone doing that in High School (I went to Le Carrefour.

[Acajack]

Surprised at all the comments about doing it or not in high school.

From what I observe in Gatineau teens seem to be a mixed bag: some do and some don't.

But by the time they are young adults pretty much everyone does it* and if you go to Café Aux Quatre Jeudis for example as people arrive it's pretty much an endless stream of cheek exchanges.

*Including Quebec-raised anglos as the previous poster pointed out.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I am French-Canadian, born in Ottawa raised in Gatineau. At home we read and watch TV in English. My mother was raised in Overbrook and my father is a Québecois turned sort of Ontarian. I've certainly never done it and I can't recall anyone on my mothers side who does (but maybe some of the more Quebecer ones) but on my dad's side, I think the Franco-Ontarians do it.

I have a few female friends in QC (one who went to one of the English High Schools on the QC side) who also do it. I don't remember anyone doing that in High School (I went to Le Carrefour.

I find all of this very interesting. My wife and I have relatives in various parts of the country but in the capital region most of our relatives live on the Ontario side and as such the way things tend to be done in Ontario is "normalcy" for them, and so they are fond of pointing out the differences they perceive with how we are because we live in Quebec.

From the fashions our kids like to wear to the fact they watch TV and listen to music in French, to the way we and our kids speak (ce n'est pas un "spa", c'est un hot tub!), to how obsessive we are about having to have wine with any meal that's not eaten out of a box, to eating dinner much later than 5 o'clock...

Anyway... not to say there aren't people in Ottawa, both anglophone and francophone, who are like us (I know for a fact there are), but to our families and also some Franco-Ontarian friends this is apparently a big deal.

How we are (allegedly) sooooooo Québécois now.