ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Atlanta3000]

Did CODA design change?

From today's Atlanta Business Chronicle


Previous Design

[Martinman]

That looks like the exact same design minus some value engineered details perhaps.

[jsvh]

Looks like the Underground deal will close right at the start of 2017:

Despite speculation to the contrary, the city of Atlanta will ring in 2017 with the Peach Drop.

The traditional New Year’s Eve celebration for 2017 was in doubt because the city is in the process of selling Underground Atlanta to South Carolina-based developer WRS Inc.

But Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed said the city has decided to put off the closing of the Underground sale for a few days so it can host the Peach Drop.

“We tried to cancel the Peach Drop before to very bad results,” Reed said in an interview Thursday. “There was a public outcry, and it was loudly and wildly protested.”

Initially, the closing of the sale of Underground Atlanta was set for earlier this year, but then both the mayor and WRS said it would close by the end of the year.

“If we canceled the Peach Drop, we could close by Dec. 31,” Reed said. “Or we could have the Peach Drop and close within the first five days of the year.”

...

Underground Atlanta to host Peach Drop for last year | Atlanta Business Chronicle

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Part of the reason development has been stunted up until the last 6 months or so is because of the two stadiums under construction. They held up a lot of local construction labor and local construction materials costs were increased because of them. Both of them are now topped out and really only have the outer facade and interior work to be completed.

I'm hoping we see new developments again in 2017 and 2018, preferably those in Midtown 30 stories and above and more higher quality developments along the BeltLine. Preferably both with no more exposed parking. IMO, parking decks are taking up way too much livable space in urban Atlanta.

Anyone else following developments in other cities? I spent too much time last night reviewing developments in cities across the US and it seems like Atlanta's designs are far less visually stimulating and with a worse pedestrian experience than most other developments. Maybe I was overwhelmed by their novelty, but it really makes me wish our city would demand more from developers rather than taking growth for the sake of growth.

[Street Advocate]

Details, anyone? http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...ation-for.html

[shivtim]

A couple of new townhouse developments are on track with new SAPs filed for 1160 Ormewood and 731 Moreland. There were also some rezoning requests filed for Glen Iris at North and 659 Auburn (Studioplex).

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by shivtim

There were also some rezoning requests filed for Glen Iris at North and 659 Auburn (Studioplex).

The handful of developments around Edgewood, Dekalb, and the BL are probably the ones I'm most interested in right now. The cohesion and density along the BeltLine could be the catalyst to create more infill along Edgewood Ave back Downtown. IMO, the land between the connector, Auburn Ave, the BeltLine, and MARTA should be some of the hottest in the city for restorations and new development based off location and infrastructure.

[1lifealex]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Did CODA design change?

From today's Atlanta Business Chronicle


Previous Design

The two renderings definitely look different to me

[Verge]

Originally Posted by Martinman

That looks like the exact same design minus some value engineered details perhaps.

Much better-- If there is any design that could benefit from simplification (yes, maybe VE) this is it--

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by Kh9142

...I'm really not sure what is missing from Midtown...

Midtown is missing that "there" feeling. When you go to AS, PCM, or Lenox/Phipps, it's for a purpose and the options are plenty, close together and diverse. Midtown has that for people going to work, but not as much for retail/entertainment etc. You're either going to eat at Taco Mac, going to see a show at Center Stage, going to a concert at Piedmont Park, or going to the museum for example. But because the big generators are scattered about with kind of dead zones in between, the mixed use benefit suffers (think of people going to buy a shirt in AS and then deciding to have dinner and a movie afterward). Midtown right now is like walking through a dying mall with only department stores and a few shops scattered in between. I'm not saying Midtown is dying, rather it's growing and just doesn't have critical mass of retail to create the "there" feeling yet. It's because the scale of development is so large and IMO has to go through growing pains before it's established enough to support the level and diversity of retail of that scale. Look at what happened to CB2. Retail on that large of a scale needs a wealth of smaller/similar shops to help support it. A bank, Panera, and sit-down restaurant is not gonna cut it. And every time I walked by and saw this dramatic showroom with nobody in there I knew it was only a matter of time before they left.

If developers coordinated and worked together like someone building a mall, retail would be more successful. Auto-centric suburban malls are terrible examples of city planning, but midtown could really benefit if they can achieve the same synergies among retailers within the interior of most malls. It will get there eventually, but someone has to paint the picture and then hold developers accountable at matching that vision with each new development.

[robertjhajek]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

Midtown is missing that "there" feeling. When you go to AS, PCM, or Lenox/Phipps, it's for a purpose and the options are plenty, close together and diverse. Midtown has that for people going to work, but not as much for retail/entertainment etc. You're either going to eat at Taco Mac, going to see a show at Center Stage, going to a concert at Piedmont Park, or going to the museum for example. But because the big generators are scattered about with kind of dead zones in between, the mixed use benefit suffers (think of people going to buy a shirt in AS and then deciding to have dinner and a movie afterward). Midtown right now is like walking through a dying mall with only department stores and a few shops scattered in between. I'm not saying Midtown is dying, rather it's growing and just doesn't have critical mass of retail to create the "there" feeling yet. It's because the scale of development is so large and IMO has to go through growing pains before it's established enough to support the level and diversity of retail of that scale. Look at what happened to CB2. Retail on that large of a scale needs a wealth of smaller/similar shops to help support it. A bank, Panera, and sit-down restaurant is not gonna cut it. And every time I walked by and saw this dramatic showroom with nobody in there I knew it was only a matter of time before they left.

If developers coordinated and worked together like someone building a mall, retail would be more successful. Auto-centric suburban malls are terrible examples of city planning, but midtown could really benefit if they can achieve the same synergies among retailers within the interior of most malls. It will get there eventually, but someone has to paint the picture and then hold developers accountable at matching that vision with each new development.

This last paragraph is exactly what colony square is going to create.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by robertjhajek

This last paragraph is exactly what colony square is going to create.

I'm talking Midtown Juniper to Connector, North Ave to Deering, not just one block.

[Tuckerman]

What is missing in Midtown is density. It is getting there, but you won't see all day and evening foot traffic until the density from 3rd to 17th begins to be over 10,000 or so per sq mile.
Further, you need to have a reason why the many high rise residents need to go out on a regular basis and shop and eat. This is a pattern very common in denser cities, particularly in Europe. We still live in a car culture where one buys items such as toilet paper or veggies at Costco or Kroger by the big package. No need to run downstairs or across the street for an extra tomato. When we lived in Europe and w/o a car, the days were full of little trips to close by shops to buy some little items that were needed. We did not carry home gallon jugs of laundry detergent. Our lifestyle forced us to go to the street.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

Midtown is missing that "there" feeling. When you go to AS, PCM, or Lenox/Phipps, it's for a purpose and the options are plenty, close together and diverse. Midtown has that for people going to work, but not as much for retail/entertainment etc. You're either going to eat at Taco Mac, going to see a show at Center Stage, going to a concert at Piedmont Park, or going to the museum for example. But because the big generators are scattered about with kind of dead zones in between, the mixed use benefit suffers (think of people going to buy a shirt in AS and then deciding to have dinner and a movie afterward). Midtown right now is like walking through a dying mall with only department stores and a few shops scattered in between. I'm not saying Midtown is dying, rather it's growing and just doesn't have critical mass of retail to create the "there" feeling yet. It's because the scale of development is so large and IMO has to go through growing pains before it's established enough to support the level and diversity of retail of that scale. Look at what happened to CB2. Retail on that large of a scale needs a wealth of smaller/similar shops to help support it. A bank, Panera, and sit-down restaurant is not gonna cut it. And every time I walked by and saw this dramatic showroom with nobody in there I knew it was only a matter of time before they left.

If developers coordinated and worked together like someone building a mall, retail would be more successful. Auto-centric suburban malls are terrible examples of city planning, but midtown could really benefit if they can achieve the same synergies among retailers within the interior of most malls. It will get there eventually, but someone has to paint the picture and then hold developers accountable at matching that vision with each new development.

I know someone involved with the development CB2 was in. It was very much because of ridiculous rent hikes that they left. He specifically mentioned that CB2 had no problem paying the higher rent they just felt it was ridiculous to hike all at once and they tried to negotiate a progressive hike over a couple years and were shot down. It is too bad because I loved that store.

[atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I'm hoping we see new developments again in 2017 and 2018, preferably those in Midtown 30 stories and above and more higher quality developments along the BeltLine. Preferably both with no more exposed parking. IMO, parking decks are taking up way too much livable space in urban Atlanta.

Anyone else following developments in other cities? I spent too much time last night reviewing developments in cities across the US and it seems like Atlanta's designs are far less visually stimulating and with a worse pedestrian experience than most other developments. Maybe I was overwhelmed by their novelty, but it really makes me wish our city would demand more from developers rather than taking growth for the sake of growth.

Definitely don't disagree with anything you said. It does appear developers like Hanover, Related Group, and JPX are more design conscious than Novare type developer.

[RobMidtowner]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

I know someone involved with the development CB2 was in. It was very much because of ridiculous rent hikes that they left. He specifically mentioned that CB2 had no problem paying the higher rent they just felt it was ridiculous to hike all at once and they tried to negotiate a progressive hike over a couple years and were shot down. It is too bad because I loved that store.

That is pretty crazy. Especially when you consider a typical strip mall is the opposite, where the main tenant has little to no rent and all the supporting smaller shops have higher rents to cover developer costs. No wonder they left.

[Kh9142]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

I know someone involved with the development CB2 was in. It was very much because of ridiculous rent hikes that they left. He specifically mentioned that CB2 had no problem paying the higher rent they just felt it was ridiculous to hike all at once and they tried to negotiate a progressive hike over a couple years and were shot down. It is too bad because I loved that store.

That's what I assumed-- I believe that the 12th and Midtown development is the only development that is having real issues with retail tenants, correct? Other developments/buildings may have a space or two empty, but it has been epidemic at 12th and Midtown. Even the new buildings are filling up-- with the location that 12th and Midtown has, there is definitely something wrong there.

[shivtim]

I mostly agree with what people are saying here, but there is one part of Midtown (besides Peachtree Street) that has all of these elements already - Tech Square and the immediately surrounding area. Within a few blocks it has educational uses, a hotel and conference center, restaurants, shopping, residential, office, and green space. It has excellent transportation options (MARTA, bike lanes, walkable broad shaded sidewalks, free shuttles, Relay bike share station, etc). It's not a tourist spot or a destination in the sense of Lenox Mall or Ponce City Market, but that's exactly my point. It's a mixed-use neighborhood scale development with strong street activity. It doesn't need a Target or a Gap to be successful. And it's only going to get better and better, with the forthcoming additions of NCR, CODA, and the Standard.

[Kh9142]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

I'm talking Midtown Juniper to Connector, North Ave to Deering, not just one block.

I think 14th will be the first place where this really starts-- from Colony square to the new Whole Foods, especially if 98 14th gets built with its large amount of retail. The density will be there.The density is coming quickly now-- I think things will organically fall into place over time.

[RobMidtowner]

Agreed on both accounts, Tech Square has been a huge boost to that area and the surrounding blocks. It's an example of how to do it right. And 14th will be interesting to watch as it fills in.