Vancouver Downtown Streetcar | Proposed

[Spork]

There would also be issues with cars stopping between traffic lights on main streets blocking alley entrances/exits. Next thing you know, Downtown is covered in areas where you literally cannot stop moving.

[van-island]

The inside of those Belgian streetcars sure look nice. If our transit vehicles had interiors like that, maybe more people would be enticed to ride them.

Hopefully the yahoos who scrape their "tags" into the windows of the buses here and cut the seat upholstery open don't get their hands on the streetcars. The Belgians probably wouldn't be too happy with us if we send them back all scarred up...

Maybe we should have a second attendant walking inside the streetcar just to make sure no one is messing with things (kind of like the bus attendants/ticket checkers in Bangkok, etc)

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by van-island

The inside of those Belgian streetcars sure look nice. If our transit vehicles had interiors like that, maybe more people would be enticed to ride them.

Hopefully the yahoos who scrape their "tags" into the windows of the buses here and cut the seat upholstery open don't get their hands on the streetcars. The Belgians probably wouldn't be too happy with us if we send them back all scarred up...

Maybe we should have a second attendant walking inside the streetcar just to make sure no one is messing with things (kind of like the bus attendants/ticket checkers in Bangkok, etc)

Belgium streetcars get vandalised too - the ones we're borrowing are brand spanking new from the factory. So unless a disgruntled union worker has had a go at them, they should be clean of any damage.

The yahoos tagging the windows is facilitated because "we" (i.e. the safety people) insist on coating the windows with plastic in the interest of safety - it supposed to prevent the window breaking. It's also perfect for scratching with any hard objects. Pure glass can only be scratched with diamonds.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by lightrail

Belgium streetcars get vandalised too - the ones we're borrowing are brand spanking new from the factory. So unless a disgruntled union worker has had a go at them, they should be clean of any damage.

The yahoos tagging the windows is facilitated because "we" (i.e. the safety people) insist on coating the windows with plastic in the interest of safety - it supposed to prevent the window breaking. It's also perfect for scratching with any hard objects. Pure glass can only be scratched with diamonds.

Indeed, I wonder if the costs outweigh the benefits of coating the windows in plastic.

Note that glass has a hardness of 5.5 Mohs, whereas Diamonds are 10 Mohs. There are plenty of intermediate materials that will scratch glass. E.g. quartz, hardened steel, tungsten carbide.

[SFUVancouver]

Kids today, with their quartz, hardened steel, and tungsten carbide.

Back in my day, if we wanted to vandalize something we would use a stick, that we carved ourselves, after planting the tree first, uphill!

[flight_from_kamakura]

lol!

[cornholio]

edit:

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Kids today, with their quartz, hardened steel, and tungsten carbide.

Back in my day, if we wanted to vandalize something we would use a stick, that we carved ourselves, after planting the tree first, uphill!

A stick? You were lucky! We had to use our bare nails to scratch into steel and hardwood upholstery

[SpongeG]

we just used a rock

[vango]

Testing continues (my photos taken today):

[deasine]

Replace the beige with TransLink's blue and yellow and they would look like they belong here =P

[vansky]

another "fancy" addition...

good to c how the city is making progress slowly

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

I think a better route would be along the Arbutus corridor to the Olympic Village Skytrain. It doesn't seem practical to take the street car downtown when you could save time with a quick transfer to the Canada Line.

It wouldn't be for a long haul, one ride trip. Waterfront and VCC stations aren't the only places people in the City of Vancouver want to go.

The Canada Line doesn't go to Science world (you would need 2 transfers for that from Arbutus). The Canada Line doesn't go into China Town. The Canada Line doesn't go into Gastown.

The Vancouver Street car wouldn't be just for riding all the way from Kerrisdale to Waterfront station. It would be for intermediate trips: China town to Granville Island, Vanier Park to Science world, Waterfront station to Stanley Park, Coal Harbour to Gastown.

Everyone always thinks in terms of King George to Waterfront (or downtown), few people stop to think of the service of non long distance commuters, like New West to Metrotown, Lougheed to Brentwood, King Edward to Langara.

Not all rides are end to end cross region commutes. That's the niche that the streetcar would fill nicely. Yes you could ride it from the Westside to Waterfront, but it would offer such interesting destinations in between those, that are currently hard to get to on transit.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Not all rides are end to end cross region commutes. That's the niche that the streetcar would fill nicely. Yes you could ride it from the Westside to Waterfront, but it would offer such interesting destinations in between those, that are currently hard to get to on transit.

I think it would be mostly used by tourists and weekend shoppers, not weekday commuters. But there's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure every tourist attraction along the line would support it, and maybe be willing to help fund capital expenses like station building.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Everyone always thinks in terms of King George to Waterfront (or downtown), few people stop to think of the service of non long distance commuters, like New West to Metrotown, Lougheed to Brentwood, King Edward to Langara.

Not all rides are end to end cross region commutes. That's the niche that the streetcar would fill nicely. Yes you could ride it from the Westside to Waterfront, but it would offer such interesting destinations in between those, that are currently hard to get to on transit.

Especially considering that the streetcar would intersect well with existing long-haul bus/train lines. 41, 25, 33, C-Line, E-Line, M-Line(Eventually @ Arbutus).

Canada-Line to Granville Island itself is quite the draw.

[djh]

^I really think people are underestimating the complexity and hassle of having a streetcar system that crosses MAJOR transit arterial corridors like Broadway, W4th, etc. Can you imagine how much stopping and starting would be necessary for buses, express buses and vehicles just to ensure that there was never a vehicle blocking the tram crossing that road? And it wouldn't just apply at Broadway, but again at W4th, W12th, W16th, King Ed, W41st - all major roads which at certain times of the day are subject to congestion or heavy traffic.
Trams don't like crossing busy roads on a regular basis. Unless you like your trams dented, or your pedestrians dead.

It would be much better to run the route where it crosses the least intersectios (e.g., near the seawall, Granville Island route, etc.), or separate the grade at major intersections (tunnels, bridges, etc.). Obviously, the last option is more expensive.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by djh

^I really think people are underestimating the complexity and hassle of having a streetcar system that crosses MAJOR transit arterial corridors like Broadway, W4th, etc. Can you imagine how much stopping and starting would be necessary for buses, express buses and vehicles just to ensure that there was never a vehicle blocking the tram crossing that road? And it wouldn't just apply at Broadway, but again at W4th, W12th, W16th, King Ed, W41st - all major roads which at certain times of the day are subject to congestion or heavy traffic.
Trams don't like crossing busy roads on a regular basis. Unless you like your trams dented, or your pedestrians dead.

It would be much better to run the route where it crosses the least intersectios (e.g., near the seawall, Granville Island route, etc.), or separate the grade at major intersections (tunnels, bridges, etc.). Obviously, the last option is more expensive.

I was wondering when someone would raise that point!

[deasine]

Originally Posted by djh

^I really think people are underestimating the complexity and hassle of having a streetcar system that crosses MAJOR transit arterial corridors like Broadway, W4th, etc. Can you imagine how much stopping and starting would be necessary for buses, express buses and vehicles just to ensure that there was never a vehicle blocking the tram crossing that road? And it wouldn't just apply at Broadway, but again at W4th, W12th, W16th, King Ed, W41st - all major roads which at certain times of the day are subject to congestion or heavy traffic.
Trams don't like crossing busy roads on a regular basis. Unless you like your trams dented, or your pedestrians dead.

It would be much better to run the route where it crosses the least intersectios (e.g., near the seawall, Granville Island route, etc.), or separate the grade at major intersections (tunnels, bridges, etc.). Obviously, the last option is more expensive.

Well it's true that transit should have its own ROW whenever it can, but I think you are making it more complicated than it actually is. Proper coordinated traffic signals is all you need.

[officedweller]

I agree that running a tram along the Arbutus corridor (and just crossing major streets) is easy compared to running down the middle of the major street!
Look at what Toronto is doing for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT line (for LRT down the middle of the street) - left turns will be banned at major intersections - replaced by Michigan lefts - either a U-turn traffic light after the intersection then a right hand turn (or a right hand turn then a U-turn). There's discussion on the Urban Toronto forum whether the addition of 2 U-turn lights per intersection (one for each direction) will be worse than just allowing the left turns at the major intersection in the first place.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by djh

^I really think people are underestimating the complexity and hassle of having a streetcar system that crosses MAJOR transit arterial corridors like Broadway, W4th, etc. Can you imagine how much stopping and starting would be necessary for buses, express buses and vehicles just to ensure that there was never a vehicle blocking the tram crossing that road? And it wouldn't just apply at Broadway, but again at W4th, W12th, W16th, King Ed, W41st - all major roads which at certain times of the day are subject to congestion or heavy traffic.
Trams don't like crossing busy roads on a regular basis. Unless you like your trams dented, or your pedestrians dead.

It would be much better to run the route where it crosses the least intersectios (e.g., near the seawall, Granville Island route, etc.), or separate the grade at major intersections (tunnels, bridges, etc.). Obviously, the last option is more expensive.

It wouldn't be that complicated. Those roads on that side of the city aren't as busy as they are on Granville, Oak, Cambie, or Main. A tram crossing streets like 4th, 12th, 16th, King Ed, and 41st on the West Side would be no different than the actual intersections those roads have with Arbutus. The No 16 currently makes a similar trek without bumping into other buses and pedestrians at said intersections.

The other advantage of the existing ROW is that it is not on the actual road, so that it won't affect any existing flow/turns on/from Arbutus. As well, the ROW is segregated much of the way, meaning it has fewer intersections that Arbutus street.