recent Orthodox Jewish growth in Cleveland and other similarly-sized cities

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Yofie

10% of Jewish Clevelanders identify as Orthodox (according to a 2004 study).

I suspect the share is somewhat higher today, given higher growth rates and if there's been in-migration.

[Docere]

Cleveland Jewish community study highlights:

♦ Almost half of all Jewish survey respondents self-identify as Reform, 25% as Conservative, 10% as Orthodox (Orthodox Jewish households include 18% of all Jewish persons, and 14% are either secular or non-denominational;

• Among younger Jewish respondents (18-34), 33% identify as Orthodox, 26% secular/non-denominational, 24% Reform and 16% Conservative.

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?StudyID=581

Looks like it's transforming from your typical Reform-dominated Midwestern Jewish community to a very observant one rather quickly.

[Shawn]

There are about 275,000 Jews in metro Boston, but I would imagine not many are Orthodox. Reform makes up the biggest movement.

That being said, most of downtown Brookline (Coolidge Corner), all of downtown Sharon, and big sections of Waltham, Watertown, Stoughton, and other inner-ring burbs are all encircled with eruvs. You can't drive through Sharon on a Saturday without seeing hundreds of families walking to Temple.

[Docere]

Re: Detroit, according to this 2005 study, observant Oak Park has 12,500 Jews (37% of the population). West Bloomfield (overwhelmingly non-Orthodox) has 19,000 Jews (28%).

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=2332

I wonder if Detroit is undergoing an Orthodox shift similar to Cleveland.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

I wonder if Detroit is undergoing an Orthodox shift similar to Cleveland.

I could see it. Between intermarriage among the secular, and large family sizes among observant, it doesn't take long for a community to shift. The stereotypical Jewish NYC of liberal, affluent Jews is far from the norm these days.

I always thought it was odd that Oak Park served as the Detroit Orthodox enclave. The homes are generally pretty tiny. It's bizarre that Detroit Jews moved from big, nice homes in NW Detroit to tiny bungalows and ranches in Oak Park during the 1960's.

[Docere]

In Toronto, the postwar suburban bungalows in the Orthodox enclave around Bathurst and Lawrence have been rapidly replaced by teardowns.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.71033...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.71785...7i13312!8i6656

[Yofie]

Originally Posted by Docere

Re: Detroit, according to this 2005 study, observant Oak Park has 12,500 Jews (37% of the population). West Bloomfield (overwhelmingly non-Orthodox) has 19,000 Jews (28%).

Obviously, no area in Metro Detroit is overwhelmingly Jewish the way that - say - Beachwood in Cleveland is, but is it possible to say that at least some areas - whether Oak Park or West Bloomfield or in between - have a majority of Jews, Chaldeans/Assyrians, and Armenians combined? Or at least of Jews and Chaldeans/Assyrians combined? (Ok, maybe not most parts of Southfield, as that's predominantly black now.)

For reference, the Jews, Chaldeans, and Armenians are all ethnic groups that have 1) made it big into the middle and even upper class, 2) historically valued education (both of these things even more than many other ethnic groups), and 3) survived genocide within the past century.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yofie

Obviously, no area in Metro Detroit is overwhelmingly Jewish the way that - say - Beachwood in Cleveland is, but is it possible to say that at least some areas - whether Oak Park or West Bloomfield or in between - have a majority of Jews, Chaldeans/Assyrians, and Armenians combined? Or at least of Jews and Chaldeans/Assyrians combined? (Ok, maybe not most parts of Southfield, as that's predominantly black now.)

I think both Oak Park and West Bloomfield probably have majority (or near-majority) Jewish census tracts.

The Jews in Oak Park are almost all in the northern third. The southern two-thirds are almost entirely black. And West Bloomfield is only really heavily Jewish around Orchard Lake Road.

Both Oak Park and West Bloomfield have large Chaldean and Arab populations, BTW (especially W. Bloomfield). In both, the white population is dominated by Jews and Middle Eastern Christians.

Metro Detroit's white population is deceptively diverse, because so much of the regional diversity consists of Arab and Chaldean Christians (and Muslims around Dearborn). My suburban Detroit high school was probably majority Chaldean + Jewish (high school included parts of West Bloomfield).

[mrnyc]

ny checking in on this thread

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Docere

Cleveland Jewish community study highlights:

♦ Almost half of all Jewish survey respondents self-identify as Reform, 25% as Conservative, 10% as Orthodox (Orthodox Jewish households include 18% of all Jewish persons, and 14% are either secular or non-denominational;

• Among younger Jewish respondents (18-34), 33% identify as Orthodox, 26% secular/non-denominational, 24% Reform and 16% Conservative.

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?StudyID=581

Looks like it's transforming from your typical Reform-dominated Midwestern Jewish community to a very observant one rather quickly.

perhaps not surprizing, but many cle orthodox came after the fall of the soviet union, although there was always a base. no hasids though, although cleveland has amish nearby who come in to do work, so same thing with seeing very conservative garb around at times, although the amish dont live in cities.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

from a cursory look...it appears that clevelands jewish population is stagnant or slightly declining while metro detroit appears to be growing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cle...963f4.amp.html

the strange reality of cleveland is that stagnation at 90k is growth and jews are even more visible when compared to the city population as a whole and its struggles over the years with holding on to people. thats another unnoted reason why the local jews in the article were quite pleased.

[Yofie]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think both Oak Park and West Bloomfield probably have majority (or near-majority) Jewish census tracts.

The Jews in Oak Park are almost all in the northern third. The southern two-thirds are almost entirely black. And West Bloomfield is only really heavily Jewish around Orchard Lake Road.

Both Oak Park and West Bloomfield have large Chaldean and Arab populations, BTW (especially W. Bloomfield). In both, the white population is dominated by Jews and Middle Eastern Christians.

Metro Detroit's white population is deceptively diverse, because so much of the regional diversity consists of Arab and Chaldean Christians (and Muslims around Dearborn). My suburban Detroit high school was probably majority Chaldean + Jewish (high school included parts of West Bloomfield).

I assume that the white populations of Southfield and Farmington Hills also are dominated by Jews, Armenians, Chaldeans, and Arab Christians?

More generally, what are the rough equivalents between Jewish Cleveland and Jewish Detroit? For example, I guess that northern Oak Park would be roughly the equivalent of east central Cleveland Heights, northern/eastern Southfield would be the rough equivalent of University Heights and northwest Beachwood, and West Bloomfield plus Farmington Hills would roughly equal Solon and/or parts of Beachwood or Pepper Pike? How would everything work out in that regard?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yofie

I assume that the white populations of Southfield and Farmington Hills also are dominated by Jews, Armenians, Chaldeans, and Arab Christians?

Yes. Speaking very generally, the NW suburbs of Detroit have significant populations of Christian Arabs, Chaldeans and Jews.

Detroit has a "favored quarter" and the part closer to Woodward Ave. is the established WASP and Catholic white area (kinda like Yonge in Toronto) and the areas to the west, around Northwestern Highway and thereabouts, tend to be much more diverse.

Jewish migration in Detroit has, for over a century, followed M-10, more or less (Lodge Freeway/Northwestern Highway).

Originally Posted by Yofie

More generally, what are the rough equivalents between Jewish Cleveland and Jewish Detroit? For example, I guess that northern Oak Park would be roughly the equivalent of east central Cleveland Heights, northern/eastern Southfield would be the rough equivalent of University Heights and northwest Beachwood, and West Bloomfield plus Farmington Hills would roughly equal Solon and/or parts of Beachwood or Pepper Pike? How would everything work out in that regard?

Yeah, more or less. Would agree with all of this. But the Cleveland analogues are a bit older/more urban. And I don't think Farmington Hills has that many Jews except a bit of W. Bloomfield overflow. Bloomfield Twp., Franklin and Beverly Hills would probably have more Jews.

Also, Huntington Woods, a tiny community next to Oak Park, is quite Jewish. That's basically it for Metro Detroit.

[Yofie]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, more or less. Would agree with all of this. But the Cleveland analogues are a bit older/more urban. And I don't think Farmington Hills has that many Jews except a bit of W. Bloomfield overflow. Bloomfield Twp., Franklin and Beverly Hills would probably have more Jews.

Also, Huntington Woods, a tiny community next to Oak Park, is quite Jewish. That's basically it for Metro Detroit.

If one looks at the map of Jewish households in Metro Detroit as seen on the 16th page of a 2005 study, plus the demographic table on the 25th page of the geographical profile of that study, it seems to me that more Jews live in northern Farmington Hills than in Bloomfield Twp./Franklin/Beverly Hills.

And yeah, on that same map, Huntington Woods looks as densely Jewish as much of Oak Park. Are the Jews in Huntington Woods more secular than those in Oak Park, or are a number of them religious as well?

Are there a bunch of Jews in Lathrup Village as well as in Southfield itself?

Finally, I agree that the Cleveland analogues are a bit more urban/older than those in Detroit. Knowing much of Cleveland very well and having looked at Google Maps Street Finder for the rest, it seems to me, for example, that northern Oak Park has more or less the built environment of much of South Euclid but the Jewish demographics of the S. Taylor area of Cleveland Heights.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yofie

If one looks at the map of Jewish households in Metro Detroit as seen on the 16th page of a 2005 study, plus the demographic table on the 25th page of the geographical profile of that study, it seems to me that more Jews live in northern Farmington Hills than in Bloomfield Twp./Franklin/Beverly Hills.

Wow, I'm a little surprised at the Farmington numbers. Perhaps it's because the report is from 2005, and I would guess Farmington has grown less Jewish (very fast-growing black population) and Bloomfield somewhat more Jewish (no longer considered WASP enclave). In any case, I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Yofie

And yeah, on that same map, Huntington Woods looks as densely Jewish as much of Oak Park. Are the Jews in Huntington Woods more secular than those in Oak Park, or are a number of them religious as well?

Huntington Woods would be more a mix. The town has excellent schools and high home prices (and crazy high property taxes), so attracts Jews willing to pay for top public schools (ie not Orthodox). But it also abuts the Orthodox areas and is walkable and close to Shuls so there's probably overlap. Oak Park has terrible schools so will not attract secular Jews anymore.

Originally Posted by Yofie

Are there a bunch of Jews in Lathrup Village as well as in Southfield itself?

These days, mostly Orthodox overflow from Oak Park, and a few elderly Reform/Conservative. Southfield was the main Jewish suburb until 30 years ago. The schools are now terrible so secular are in W. Bloomfield. Lathrup Village is a tiny enclave in Southfield and probably has a few remaining elderly Jews.

I could see Southfield reviving with more Orthodox, though, because home prices are cheap, it's safe with decent services and good neighbors (just bad schools), and it's right next to Oak Park.

Originally Posted by Yofie

Finally, I agree that the Cleveland analogues are a bit more urban/older than those in Detroit. Knowing much of Cleveland very well and having looked at Google Maps Street Finder for the rest, it seems to me, for example, that northern Oak Park has more or less the built environment of much of South Euclid but the Jewish demographics of the S. Taylor area of Cleveland Heights.

Yes. Completely agree.

[Yofie]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Huntington Woods would be more a mix. The town has excellent schools and high home prices (and crazy high property taxes), so attracts Jews willing to pay for top public schools (ie not Orthodox). But it also abuts the Orthodox areas and is walkable and close to Shuls so there's probably overlap. Oak Park has terrible schools so will not attract secular Jews anymore.

Are the Orthodox Jews in Huntington Woods "Lithuanian"/yeshivish/black-hat just like in Oak Park, or are there Modern Orthodox Jews too?

Originally Posted by Crawford

These days, mostly Orthodox overflow from Oak Park, and a few elderly Reform/Conservative. Southfield was the main Jewish suburb until 30 years ago. The schools are now terrible so secular are in W. Bloomfield. Lathrup Village is a tiny enclave in Southfield and probably has a few remaining elderly Jews.

I could see Southfield reviving with more Orthodox, though, because home prices are cheap, it's safe with decent services and good neighbors (just bad schools), and it's right next to Oak Park.

Does Southfield/Lathrup Village have a higher percentage of Modern Orthodox Jews among the Orthodox population than Oak Park? Or does it depend on where in Southfield (e.g. closer to Oak Park being mainly black hat and further away from Oak Park being Modern)?

Shifting gears a little bit to Cleveland, did secular/cultural Jews move away from eastern Cleveland Hgts+Univ. Hgts+northwest Beachwood to the rest of Beachwood+Pepper Pike+Moreland Hills+Solon as much as secular/cultural Jews moved away from Southfield to W. Bloomfield, Farmington Hills, etc., or have the dynamics been a bit different?

[PoshSteve]

I can confirm the original poster that Cleveland's Jewish population is growing from migrants from NY. I work in the housing department for South Euclid, a suburb on the east side. Along with Cleveland Hts, University Hts, and Beachwood, we comprise the heart of the region's Jewish concentration. There has been a marked increase in Jewish families moving to the city, particularly from out of the region. We have a new kosher grocery store which is close to being completed, and there is going to be a new Jewish school campus built. There are Jewish investors buying up every house that comes up for sale on streets in that neighborhood, and rehabbing houses specifically for Jewish families moving from NY/NJ.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Soooo ... does this mean Cleveland is gonna get more bagel shops?

[Yofie]

Originally Posted by PoshSteve

I can confirm the original poster that Cleveland's Jewish population is growing from migrants from NY. I work in the housing department for South Euclid, a suburb on the east side. Along with Cleveland Hts, University Hts, and Beachwood, we comprise the heart of the region's Jewish concentration. There has been a marked increase in Jewish families moving to the city, particularly from out of the region. We have a new kosher grocery store which is close to being completed, and there is going to be a new Jewish school campus built. There are Jewish investors buying up every house that comes up for sale on streets in that neighborhood, and rehabbing houses specifically for Jewish families moving from NY/NJ.

So back to one of my original questions: Is Cleveland indeed taking in significantly more Orthodox Jews from NY/NJ and other large centres than its cousin to the northwest, Detroit?

And also, as I was asking earlier in this post: Is there a similar in-migration of Habad families to Pittsburgh from Crown Heights and other East Coast Habad neighbourhoods? As well as, to some extent perhaps, of non-Habad Orthodox families to Pittsburgh (not nearly as much, I'm sure, as Cleveland)?

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by PoshSteve

I can confirm the original poster that Cleveland's Jewish population is growing from migrants from NY. I work in the housing department for South Euclid, a suburb on the east side. Along with Cleveland Hts, University Hts, and Beachwood, we comprise the heart of the region's Jewish concentration. There has been a marked increase in Jewish families moving to the city, particularly from out of the region. We have a new kosher grocery store which is close to being completed, and there is going to be a new Jewish school campus built. There are Jewish investors buying up every house that comes up for sale on streets in that neighborhood, and rehabbing houses specifically for Jewish families moving from NY/NJ.

seems like this is a thing thats happening in established orthodox neighborhoods in the midwest. i wonder how this is transpiring on the ny/nj end?