Winnipeg Police Headquarters | Graham Ave.

[bomberjet]

So I hear police chief Clunis is quiting because of the budget shortfall this year. Up to 80 officers will need to be laid off, so he quit. Seriously? Sounds like a child pouting. I'll wait for full details this afternoon.

FreeP is reporting.
https://twitter.com/WinnipegNews
Eadie: Clunis resigning b/c WPS facing layoff 80 officers, entire cadet program b/c of $2.4 budget shortfall #wpgpoli (@aldosantin)

[buzzg]

To be fair their spending has ballooned out of control with no real tangible results to be like "ok but the extra money got us this." And, while he is a nice guy, he was being touted as some sort of saviour, but nothing really happened that stands out under his control. Hopefully the next chief is someone who actually gives a crap about finding efficiencies.

I will say though that I think scrapping Cadets is a terrible idea. That's where you save money — why have a full time cop directing traffic? Makes no sense.

[esquire]

Clunis is quitting because he can't handle cuts? Seriously? I guess this must be a rude awakening to the cops and firefighters who thought there was a bottomless pit of money for constant generous salary increases, pensionable overtime and every piece of infrastructure and equipment they'd ever care to buy.

Emergency services are a runaway train of expenses. About time they got reined in a little.

[CoryB]

Sometimes you have a leader such as Clunis leave voluntarily as a way to save on administrative costs to try and limit the impact of upcoming cuts to lower levels of the organization. I suspect that is what is happening here.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Sometimes you have a leader such as Clunis leave voluntarily as a way to save on administrative costs to try and limit the impact of upcoming cuts to lower levels of the organization. I suspect that is what is happening here.

I don't know what kind of impact his departure will have if any given that there will be an interim chief hired right away and eventually a replacement.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Clunis is quitting because he can't handle cuts? Seriously? I guess this must be a rude awakening to the cops and firefighters who thought there was a bottomless pit of money for constant generous salary increases, pensionable overtime and every piece of infrastructure and equipment they'd ever care to buy.

Emergency services are a runaway train of expenses. About time they got reined in a little.

You sure that's the real reason, I think the new police headquarters debacle and investigation into that by the RCMP has more to do with it. The purchase of the vanity robo tank without authorization sure didn't help.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't know what kind of impact his departure will have if any given that there will be an interim chief hired right away and eventually a replacement.

Most likely the interim chief will be an active member of the WPS (prob the Deputy Chief), who will prob just need a mild salary adjustment.

[bomberjet]

Top be clear, the proposed Police operating budget went up approx. $16M from last year. $264M to $280M.

Here's a breakdown.

Explanations Variance
Police Service
Increase in salaries and benefits, primarily due to increases in the collective agreements and the addition of 8 cadets for new Police Headquarters security, and 2 positions for Transit buses. $ 9,744,556
Increase in facilities costs, primarily due to the move to the new Police Headquarters. 4,069,889
Transfer to Capital. 3,292,000
Net increase in debt and finance charges, primarily due to the move to the new Police Headquarters. 2,271,908
Increase in costs associated with an increase in photo enforcement revenue. 752,000
Net decrease in recoveries from capital. 157,899
Corporate adjustment to reflect a year over year increase of 6.32% for Police Service expenditures. (3,500,000)
Net operational cost decreases. (96,324)
Total $ 16,691,928

[rrskylar]

Read somewhere that the WPS and WFPS accounted for 29% of the expenditure of the city budget ten years ago and that they now account for 45%, how is this sustainable long term?

[crocket]

Originally Posted by esquire

Clunis is quitting because he can't handle cuts? Seriously? I guess this must be a rude awakening to the cops and firefighters who thought there was a bottomless pit of money for constant generous salary increases, pensionable overtime and every piece of infrastructure and equipment they'd ever care to buy.

Emergency services are a runaway train of expenses. About time they got reined in a little.

Totally agree, especially on the police side. Crime has been steadily decreasing for decades, despite popular belief. The idea of adding military equipment to the police arsenal is ludicrous. Funding should be tempered even reigned in over the years and focused on effective crime control policies. Don't get me started on surveillance, photo radar and other revenue generators disguised as public safety.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Read somewhere that the WPS and WFPS accounted for 29% of the expenditure of the city budget ten years ago and that they now account for 45%, how is this sustainable long term?

That is just nuts. Those unions are so powerful and they keep pushing for more funding, getting us fearful of crime when it is down considerably over decades.

[bomberjet]

Direct link to the operating budget portion of the budget.
http://winnipeg.ca/finance/files/201...et_Volume2.pdf

WFPS budget is 18.0% while Police is 26.6%. Simple math = 44.6%. Just for fire and police.

[bomberjet]

I think this was part of the intent for the Winnipeg Police Board. Which is separate from the police service. To try and reign in these guys because really there was no control. Just the word of the police. There was no one to tell the police "Hey guys, too much money." And if they tried, the union freaks out.

Let me say, I'm all for policing. But at the same time, like you folks have said. They rule by fear. "What, you're cutting the budget? Crime, crime, crime. Your children are not safe."

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Direct link to the operating budget portion of the budget.
http://winnipeg.ca/finance/files/201...et_Volume2.pdf

WFPS budget is 18.0% while Police is 26.6%. Simple math = 44.6%. Just for fire and police.

Bottom line these people are all well paid relative to the average salaries of most living in Winnipeg, add to that pensionable overtime (totally ridiculous) and the ability to retire after 25 years and it's gone completely over the top.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

Clunis is quitting because he can't handle cuts? Seriously? I guess this must be a rude awakening to the cops and firefighters who thought there was a bottomless pit of money for constant generous salary increases, pensionable overtime and every piece of infrastructure and equipment they'd ever care to buy.

Emergency services are a runaway train of expenses. About time they got reined in a little.

totally agree....most police are in the top 5 percentile wage earners nationally...and this doesn't include pensions in their early 50's based on their overtime.

I don't begrudge them to make a good living....but pension included, they are making double what most well paid private industry professionals are.

they also have a tank and a helicopter.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, I don't begrudge the cops a good wage for what is undeniably hard work, but lately it seems that we've gone from treating cops and firefighters fairly to an arrangement that is very generous to the point where it is imposing a very heavy load on taxpayers.

You could become a cop at 20, work and make good money for 30 years, retire at 50 and earn a generous pension for even more years than you actually worked.

I'm no mathematician but this model strikes me as somewhat unsustainable in the long run.

[CoryB]

The other thing I strongly call into question is the need for Winnipeg to have a police helicopter and tank.

There is a bigger trend at play here. As the US military withdraws boots on the ground operations overseas in favour of more remote drone operations they suddenly have a bunch of surplus equipment. You can't exactly sell those surplus light armoured personal carriers to any random person yet it is hard to send that surplus equipment straight to scrap either. This resulted in the US government creating programs to help local law enforcement purchase this surplus military gear for their own uses. This resulted in many smaller scale police forces getting types of gear you used to see in only the largest and most crime filled cities. Then you start running stats and you go a city with a smaller population and fewer dangerous calls that Winnipeg has a tank, not only that but Winnipeg is in the top 20 cities in terms of call and is one of only 10 in the top 100 that doesn't have a tank, therefore we need a tank for officer safety.

I think something similar happened with the helicopter but am less up to speed on that side of the story. I also don't have the exact stats on the militarization of US police forces.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The other thing I strongly call into question is the need for Winnipeg to have a police helicopter and tank.

There is a bigger trend at play here. As the US military withdraws boots on the ground operations overseas in favour of more remote drone operations they suddenly have a bunch of surplus equipment. You can't exactly sell those surplus light armoured personal carriers to any random person yet it is hard to send that surplus equipment straight to scrap either. This resulted in the US government creating programs to help local law enforcement purchase this surplus military gear for their own uses. This resulted in many smaller scale police forces getting types of gear you used to see in only the largest and most crime filled cities. Then you start running stats and you go a city with a smaller population and fewer dangerous calls that Winnipeg has a tank, not only that but Winnipeg is in the top 20 cities in terms of call and is one of only 10 in the top 100 that doesn't have a tank, therefore we need a tank for officer safety.

I think something similar happened with the helicopter but am less up to speed on that side of the story. I also don't have the exact stats on the militarization of US police forces.

I believe they stopped that practice for the very reasons you stated. Militarization and the Patriot Act gave US police forces carte blanche to trump peoples basic rights in the name of crime fighting, bust down the door of the wrong house and shoot the occupant in the process, no problem it was an accident, no repercussions just madness!

[crocket]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah, I don't begrudge the cops a good wage for what is undeniably hard work, but lately it seems that we've gone from treating cops and firefighters fairly to an arrangement that is very generous to the point where it is imposing a very heavy load on taxpayers.

You could become a cop at 20, work and make good money for 30 years, retire at 50 and earn a generous pension for even more years than you actually worked.

I'm no mathematician but this model strikes me as somewhat unsustainable in the long run.

Ya, the math doesn't work. We need smart policing not more helicopters and army trucks.

[esquire]

^ As much as people like to harp on the helicopter and tank, I don't think the WPS has an equipment overexpenditure problem so much as it has a salary problem.

For what it's worth, the criminal element in this city has grown a harder over the last 30 years, so it stands to reason that the cops have more gear than the billy-club equipped officer did in my grandfather's day. However, the situation is a far cry from what it's like in flashpoints like St. Louis or other big American cities. The bigger issues here are rapidly escalating wages, generous OT provisions where many cops earn piles sitting around in court, generous pensions, etc.

Fair enough if council wants to pay those generous amounts out to cops, but it's going to limit the number of police offers that the city can support. Eventually something has to give.