DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

I really would love to see Denver invest in some of the medians and landscaping adjacent to I-25, West of Downtown. That's the premier view of the city, and pretty-ing up some of freeway-adjacent landscaping would be a nice touch!

Agree that Ryan's photos are amazing.

Freeway-scaping has long been an issue but I assume it goes to the difficulty as opposed to doing that in the desert or in California where you don't have to deal with the harshness of winter.

Also in many cases there may be future questions of expansion or change. Plus it's not like CDOT's coffers are overflowing.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Agree that Ryan's photos are amazing.

Freeway-scaping has long been an issue but I assume it goes to the difficulty as opposed to doing that in the desert or in California where you don't have to deal with the harshness of winter.

Also in many cases there may be future questions of expansion or change. Plus it's not like CDOT's coffers are overflowing.

Oh I'm sure you 're right, pretty-ing up Denver's view isn't going to be a CDOT priority. But I'm sure if Denver wanted to cough up some change for some improvements CDOT would be happy to accept checks.

Denver spends a fortune on the all the beautiful parkways on the "east side", 7th avenue, 6th Avenue, Monaco, Montview, etc., not to mention the numerous parks and the massive City Park, all of which make the city very beautiful when viewed from the east.

A little change to fix up some of the key access points from the West would only be fair.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

I really would love to see Denver invest in some of the medians and landscaping adjacent to I-25, West of Downtown. That's the premier view of the city, and pretty-ing up some of freeway-adjacent landscaping would be a nice touch!

I've had the same thought. I was just in Phonenix and they have nice desert landscaping along the freeways. I grew up in SoCal where they landscape along freeways too. I see it here and there around Denver, but many areas are just hacked down weeds and trash. Even a heavy use of different types of rock would be nice (like they do in PHX) since this is a rather dry climate.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Agree that Ryan's photos are amazing.

Freeway-scaping has long been an issue but I assume it goes to the difficulty as opposed to doing that in the desert or in California where you don't have to deal with the harshness of winter.

Also in many cases there may be future questions of expansion or change. Plus it's not like CDOT's coffers are overflowing.

I think planting a lot of native pines along freeways would be nice and very "Colorado". There's quite a bit of desert landscaping that works here too. I doubt we want to plant anything that requires irrigation.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Oh I'm sure you 're right, pretty-ing up Denver's view isn't going to be a CDOT priority. But I'm sure if Denver wanted to cough up some change for some improvements CDOT would be happy to accept checks.

Denver spends a fortune on the all the beautiful parkways on the "east side", 7th avenue, 6th Avenue, Monaco, Montview, etc., not to mention the numerous parks and the massive City Park, all of which make the city very beautiful when viewed from the east.

A little change to fix up some of the key access points from the West would only be fair.

I haven't heard if landscaping is part of the 70 expansion, but it's not a nice view coming into Denver from the airport. There is so much trash! And I think a lot of that comes from trash trucks heading out to the landfill. At least I've see trash blowing off the top of trucks loaded and heading down I70. It seems like no one cleans up trash along I70 all winter until its time to mow down the weeds.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I think planting a lot of native pines along freeways would be nice and very "Colorado". There's quite a bit of desert landscaping that works here too. I doubt we want to plant anything that requires irrigation.

Pretty sure that native pines are not native to the high plains where Denver sits. We should have a lot of native grasses, though.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I haven't heard if landscaping is part of the 70 expansion, but it's not a nice view coming into Denver from the airport. There is so much trash! And I think a lot of that comes from trash trucks heading out to the landfill. At least I've see trash blowing off the top of trucks loaded and heading down I70. It seems like no one cleans up trash along I70 all winter until its time to mow down the weeds.

Yes, the performance requirements will require the Developer to remove all litter and debris (and dead animals) within 24 hours for the portion of I-70 they are responsible for.

Landscaping is also required. But to be clear, it will probably not be that different from what you see elsewhere, which is mostly native grasses and, where it will work, some native trees. We live in the high desert - nearly every tree you could plant requires some form of irrigation, even pine trees. The only trees that exist here naturally are in the creek bottoms. Suffice it to say, this isn't the colorful part of Colorado... And CDOT does not really do irrigated landscaping. Where it exists, it is generally because a local government is responsible for maintenance. (So on I-70, you will see that in places - near the Cover, for example - or other areas where Denver wants it.)

[TakeFive]

We've got trouble right here in River City

The CCC expansion is being (further) delayed; it's the reasons for the delay that are most interesting.
Maybe if it gets delayed long enough they'll get 'recession pricing.'

Originally Posted by bunt_q

We live in the high desert - nearly every tree you could plant requires some form of irrigation, even pine trees. The only trees that exist here naturally are in the creek bottoms.

Suffice it to say that even in the low desert irrigation is generally needed. Along recessed freeways, if not walls with designs like in Denver, they more typically use different colored rock designs in sloped areas. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's the local jurisdiction that funds any maintenance needs where plantings exist.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Pretty sure that native pines are not native to the high plains where Denver sits. We should have a lot of native grasses, though.

Well, they're native to "very close by" and grow easily without irrigation.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

We've got trouble right here in River City

The CCC expansion is being (further) delayed; it's the reasons for the delay that are most interesting.
Maybe if it gets delayed long enough they'll get 'recession pricing.'

Will be interesting to hear more details on this. Too bad for the delay, knowing how things work I'd think this is as least 6 months delay if not more. And you are right about recession pricing - some of Denver's best infrastructure investments (Convention Center, T-Rex, Coors Field, Airport ) were made at least in substantial part during recessions, both saving taxpayers money and stimulating the economy.

It's hard to time it that way, but when it happens that's a nice bonus.

[Cirrus]

I generally think the "constructed" aesthetic flourishes of western highways look better than the landscaping of eastern ones anyway. It comes off as less generic and therefore more interesting to me.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Well, they're native to "very close by" and grow easily without irrigation.

No, no they do not, that is simply not true. At least, not in an exposed location, without a lot of incidental drainage and nearby irrigation generally increasing soil moisture like you get in a lot of subdivisions around town. On the actual plains (or adjacent to a highway, which is a tough environment to begin with), they grow terribly.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

No, no they do not, that is simply not true. At least, not in an exposed location, without a lot of incidental drainage and nearby irrigation generally increasing soil moisture like you get in a lot of subdivisions around town. On the actual plains (or adjacent to a highway, which is a tough environment to begin with), they grow terribly.

I think you are right. Although there's "wild" pines growing on the open plains in south metro in areas such as Parker and Castle Pines, those areas are at higher altitudes and higher moisture than the central Denver locations we are talking about.

I note the one area of landscaped highways near central Denver of which I'm aware, is the mousetrap - and it has irrigation.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Hey thanks! We do like to be the best source for all your development news.

Shameless plug: If you didn't know already, we do run an Instagram for your on-the-go needs as well.

https://www.instagram.com/denverinfill/

I do like your PDG Design District Update since it will provide new TOD homes for thousands of people.

You got any nudes on your Instagram or are nude buildings not a thing?

[bulldurhamer]

I'm seeing row houses popping up all over Cole and Whittier.

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Not to mention Capitol Hill and Cheesman Park, where single family homes share the block with rowhomes, quadplexes, walk up apartments, and mid-rise condo buildings. Lovely neighborhoods with a high quality of life.




I understand that the suburbs of Montreal have plenty of multiplexes, including quads, located in similar settings. I don't see this as a problem.

Also, I note that earlier in the thread Bunt was bemoaning how silly it is that a multiplex can’t be built in University. The same is true in Whittier and Cole which are much closer to downtown and which feature many duplexes already. You can’t build a new duplex in those century old neighborhoods, in the city core. Here's a neighborhood serve by light rail, multiple bus lines, some good bike lane options, and yet it's zoned like Highlands Ranch. Ridiculous.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

I'm seeing row houses popping up all over Cole and Whittier.

https://denvergov.org/maps/map/zoning

The vast majority of both neighborhoods, along with part of City Park West. is zoned single unit, with some small carve outs for RH and MX.

[BG918]

With 18th & Market, Block 162 and the Rockies West Lot all under construction what is the next downtown project you want to see break ground in 2019? I would say Tabor 2 because it adds an additional skyscraper but I have my doubts it will actually get off the ground.

I'm trying to think what else exciting has a good likelihood of breaking ground next year:
- 18th & Glenarm (32 & 38 story condos)
- The Hooper (9 story residential at 26th & Welton)
- 3463 Walnut (13 story residential in RiNo)
- One Platte (5 story office next to I-25 in LoHi)
- 18th & Champa (14 story hotel)
- T3 (7 story office at 35th & Blake)
- 26th & Alcott (15 story condos/apartments in Jeff Park)
- 14th & Wynkoop (8 story mixed-use in LoDo)
- 1460 Wewatta (12 story micro apartments near DUS)
- EVEN Hotel (8 story at Park & Blake)
- 16th & Market (10 story hotel in LoDo)
- ???

[Denvergotback]

Originally Posted by BG918

With 18th & Market, Block 162 and the Rockies West Lot all under construction what is the next downtown project you want to see break ground in 2019? I would say Tabor 2 because it adds an additional skyscraper but I have my doubts it will actually get off the ground.

I'm trying to think what else exciting has a good likelihood of breaking ground next year:
- 18th & Glenarm (32 & 38 story condos)
- The Hooper (9 story residential at 26th & Welton)
- 3463 Walnut (13 story residential in RiNo)
- One Platte (5 story office next to I-25 in LoHi)
- 18th & Champa (14 story hotel)
- T3 (7 story office at 35th & Blake)
- 26th & Alcott (15 story condos/apartments in Jeff Park)
- 14th & Wynkoop (8 story mixed-use in LoDo)
- 1460 Wewatta (12 story micro apartments near DUS)
- EVEN Hotel (8 story at Park & Blake)
- 16th & Market (10 story hotel in LoDo)
- ???

I think Kenect Denver in Arapahoe Square has a really decent chance to break ground: https://denverinfill.com/blog/2018/0...-update-1.html

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

https://denvergov.org/maps/map/zoning

The vast majority of both neighborhoods, along with part of City Park West. is zoned single unit, with some small carve outs for RH and MX.

OK, I guess. Except you said you can't build multi unit homes in those neighborhoods and that's clearly not true. You also noted that there are also many multi-unit homes in those neighborhoods already.

So what's the real complaint again? You want them to scrape some 100 year old Denver squares and put up some slot homes?

What's not old and being preserved is being developed as a multi-unit residence or as small multi-dewlling properties. just around the corner next to a bunch of housing projects some new $1.3 million dollar 1800 sq ft homes are selling. Garage apartments are being built as well. So these so called single units that are so troubling actually are squeezing in on small slots of land at modest sizes and come with a second home in the back.

Put down the zoning map and take a neighborhood tour.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

Put down the zoning map and take a neighborhood tour.

Gosh. I didn’t realize that hundreds of ADU’s were being built in these city center neighborhoods. Or that Denver squares were being rehabbed as duplexes or replaced with triplexes.

That Cole and Whittier are still 90% SFH is a problem, that’s a worse ratio than Stapleton. Realistically, these neighborhoods should be 75% or so SFH at this point.