Can Vancouver and the Fraser Valley grow northwards?

[Stingray2004]

Interesting discussion vis-a-vis "row houses". I was not aware that they could be built in Vancouver proper until I drove by a relative's place last year in the East 47th/Fraser St. area.

They purchased the place for ~$14,000 circa 1964 (from Peter Wall's sister) and resold a few years later when that area was still known as "Little Germany".

In any event, I was surprised to see the house torn down last year and subdivided into two 25' lots, with a quasi-"row house" built on each subdivided lot, each about 20' feet in width, 3 stories, and around 1,900 sq. ft. They both sold for around $820,000. Unreal. And I didn't even know that the CoV had such zoning available.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Assuming the "party wall agreement" were to ever come into affect. We can assume than that if a townhouse/row house development is being built. That if the owner of an individual unit owns all floors in that unit, whether there be 1 2 or 3 floors. Then it would be easy for them to also own the land beneath the unit and both in front and behind the unit. Property lines would of course be based on the where the units join together. As well as front and back lines based on zoning. This would be like taking the detached homes in a block. Narrowing them down by a few feet and then slapping them together.

The problem is what happens in a townhouse/row house development. When each floor in a unit is owned by a different owner. So you could have a 2 or 3 floor unit. Each floor has a different owner. Are we forced in this situation of using the condo idea and the land is then joint shared. Which of course means there are strata fees and all the things you can and can not do with your unit.

Not sure on the legalities, but I assume that if the party wall agreement comes into effect, then like all laws, there will have to be definitions and limits to how the row houses can be built and thus not having the strata act apply. I imagine that property lines will be very real and will limit how row houses can be built.

It really can't be that difficult, every major country in the world has row housing at some level with no issues. In fact manchester, where I'm from, is row after row after row of them.

Row houses are a very real option and as far as I'm concerned it's a case of piss or get off the pot. If Vancouver wants to carry on with the eco denisty/sustainability party line, then row housing had better be part of the master plan.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Interesting discussion vis-a-vis "row houses". I was not aware that they could be built in Vancouver proper until I drove by a relative's place last year in the East 47th/Fraser St. area.

They purchased the place for ~$14,000 circa 1964 (from Peter Wall's sister) and resold a few years later when that area was still known as "Little Germany".

In any event, I was surprised to see the house torn down last year and subdivided into two 25' lots, with a quasi-"row house" built on each subdivided lot, each about 20' feet in width, 3 stories, and around 1,900 sq. ft. They both sold for around $820,000. Unreal. And I didn't even know that the CoV had such zoning available.

they are not row houses in the technical sense, they will be strata, either duplex or townhouses.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by delboy

they are not row houses in the technical sense, they will be strata, either duplex or townhouses.

The two new dwellings that I was referring to on 25-foot lots are both freehold, detached single-family homes.

[jlousa]

There are numerous rowhouse developments in vancouver, some of them even fee-simple. Art Cowie was very big on pushing this forward before his death. The way he got around it was by building rowhouses that had their own walls, some could argue that they aren't true rowhouses w/o party walls but that's semantics. The ones he created were non-strata with the land belonging to each owner. The prices though were no cheaper then buying a few years old sfh in the same area.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by jlousa

There are numerous rowhouse developments in vancouver, some of them even fee-simple. Art Cowie was very big on pushing this forward before his death. The way he got around it was by building rowhouses that had their own walls, some could argue that they aren't true rowhouses w/o party walls but that's semantics. The ones he created were non-strata with the land belonging to each owner. The prices though were no cheaper then buying a few years old sfh in the same area.

Yes very sad Art's passing. I guess I'm out of touch - hopefully there will be more of these developments in the future. What is fee simple by the way?

[Spork]

Originally Posted by delboy

Yes very sad Art's passing. I guess I'm out of touch - hopefully there will be more of these developments in the future. What is fee simple by the way?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_simple

A form of land ownership.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by delboy

Not sure on the legalities, but I assume that if the party wall agreement comes into effect, then like all laws, there will have to be definitions and limits to how the row houses can be built and thus not having the strata act apply. I imagine that property lines will be very real and will limit how row houses can be built.

It really can't be that difficult, every major country in the world has row housing at some level with no issues. In fact manchester, where I'm from, is row after row after row of them.

Row houses are a very real option and as far as I'm concerned it's a case of piss or get off the pot. If Vancouver wants to carry on with the eco denisty/sustainability party line, then row housing had better be part of the master plan.

Ok in the case of Manchester and the row houses. Are these row houses 1 floor only or more than 1 floor. For the ones that are more than 1 floor. Do the owners own all the floors. Or is it possible to buy a dwelling on the 1st floor and someone else buy a dwelling on the 2nd floor. Two separate owners. Without having to pay a strata fee and all that goes along with it.

While I have nothing against condo's. I just don't like the idea of a strata fee. Why can't I put my own drapes up or repaint my bathroom to a colour that I want. Just to give a couple of ideas. I realize that has nothing to do with the fee directly. But with the fee the strata council has more power over what you can do.

[worldwide]

i thought there were already freehold townhomes that had been built in Vancouver. im thinking of a development near Windsor and Kingsway... maybe i'm wrong. anyone know what im talking about?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by worldwide

i thought there were already freehold townhomes that had been built in Vancouver. im thinking of a development near Windsor and Kingsway... maybe i'm wrong. anyone know what im talking about?

The only thing I see on google street view is the complex on the south east corner. With the stores on the bottom? Is that what you are talking about.

[red-paladin]

In downtown Poco and now on the north side, they just rezone square blocks to be townhouses, condos and rowhouses, and then someone buys the whole block and redevelops it. It's been happening for 20 years and they just rezoned a bunch of land near Shaughnessy and Prarie. Here are some zoning plans: http://www.city.port-coquitlam.bc.ca...y_20085717.pdf Page 79 shows the zoning block and the current tiny lots. All of that will be developed sooner or later, and if you drive through Poco, you can see blocks being sold and cleared and development signs. So to say that land can't be wholesale redeveloped in a few years time is not true, at least there.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

In downtown Poco and now on the north side, they just rezone square blocks to be townhouses, condos and rowhouses, and then someone buys the whole block and redevelops it. It's been happening for 20 years and they just rezoned a bunch of land near Shaughnessy and Prarie. Here are some zoning plans: http://www.city.port-coquitlam.bc.ca...y_20085717.pdf Page 79 shows the zoning block and the current tiny lots. All of that will be developed sooner or later, and if you drive through Poco, you can see blocks being sold and cleared and development signs. So to say that land can't be wholesale redeveloped in a few years time is not true, at least there.

Those square blocks that they rezoned. Were they detached homes before? What if a few people on the block didn't want to sell?

[red-paladin]

They were detached homes. Basically they rezoned most of downtown Poco first, and block after block have been flattened over the last 20 years and replaced. In some cases you can see where there are like 3 houses left on a given block, and there are empty lots, like some places you see in Burnaby. Presumably the developer is just waiting for those people to change their mind / die. But there are cases like my friend's parents, where they were anxiously waiting for their block to get rezoned, so they could sell the house at a higher price. I guess if people don't want to sell, even with the increasing prices, they can't force them in any way. It's not like some places where the developer pays a gang to burn your store down if you don't sell it! (Ok exaggerating but it at least crossed my mind with some of those recent fires downtown)

[dennis1]

http://www.formshiftvancouver.com/fi...uki/board1.pdf