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View Poll Results: Which route should be twinned? Quelle route doit-on élargir?
11 8 20.51%
17 31 79.49%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 2:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
The Interstate network in the U.S. was initially built for defence purposes. Maybe our federal government should kick in money to have a freeway across the country and alternate routes in places where there is only one highway linking regions. (for example Hwy 17 at ON/MB border.
Ontario government be like, "What alternative routes? If one chaussée (sorry I don't know what it is in English; yes there are quite a few objects for which I only know the French word, and I'm not even francophone) gets closed for whatever reason, the other one is the alternate route."

And federal government giving us money to twin TCH? As much as I would like that to happen, I actually want the federal liberal to balance the book first. Why? http://www.nationalpost.com/france+m...170/story.html

I don't want Canada to be like that.
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 4:15 AM
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Uh for MB, don't forget that the segment from west of Falcon Lake to provincial boundary is 2-laned. The main reason is that Canadian Shield has kicked in.

For BC, at least they're committed to twinning Highway 1, and it seems that AADT isn't the main reason. (I could have got that wrong though.) I have always thought that, if BC ends up finishing it, it will set a (very) good example for Ontario and Manitoba too.

For the last part, I was so gonna name the States, just to realize that their population density is higher. (In that case, I wonder if western China will be an appropriate example.) A 4-laned freeway that's 7.5k km long though, that did give me some perspective. :O
Russia is likely the closest to us, yet even they don't have a 4 lane highway across the entire country.

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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
The Interstate network in the U.S. was initially built for defence purposes. Maybe our federal government should kick in money to have a freeway across the country and alternate routes in places where there is only one highway linking regions. (for example Hwy 17 at ON/MB border.
We live in an age that highways are no longer a defense priority. Transporting troops and gear is now done by air.
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 4:31 AM
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Russia is likely the closest to us, yet even they don't have a 4 lane highway across the entire country.



We live in an age that highways are no longer a defense priority. Transporting troops and gear is now done by air.
No wonder that the garrison's located at Petawawa isn't a (good) reason to convince the provincial government to extend 417 all the way there. :p
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
And federal government giving us money to twin TCH? As much as I would like that to happen, I actually want the federal liberal to balance the book first. Why? http://www.nationalpost.com/france+m...170/story.html

I don't want Canada to be like that.
Canada is already like that... It just means that from the 15th of November to the end of the year is when their deficit spending starts. Doesnt mean they dont have anything and everything stops.
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 9:46 PM
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We live in an age that highways are no longer a defense priority. Transporting troops and gear is now done by air.
I knew I was going to get that response. But I do see military vehicles along Hwys 11 and 17 in Northern Ontario at times. Moving things by air is very expensive so I think they still do move a lot on the ground. The interstate system was also designed to allow large numbers of people to move more quickly from one area to another in emergencies.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 9:47 PM
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I knew I was going to get that response. But I do see military vehicles along Hwys 11 and 17 in Northern Ontario at times. Moving things by air is very expensive so I think they still do move a lot on the ground.
True, but you don't need a 4 lane highway for those convoys. Even in an emergency, they could just take some of the old logging roads.
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2017, 9:50 PM
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No wonder that the garrison's located at Petawawa isn't a (good) reason to convince the provincial government to extend 417 all the way there. :p
Petawawa now has more people than Pembroke. I can see the 417 being extended to there within the next 15-20 years.
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 12:14 AM
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Petawawa now has more people than Pembroke. I can see the 417 being extended to there within the next 15-20 years.
Oh wow that's surprising.
If Petawawa gets big enough and becomes a city on its own right, though, I can even see 417 going all the way to North Bay (if not Sudbury or Espanola) just because the town's right in the middle between Ottawa and North Bay. (Update: K that logic might be flawed.)

(Ps: If 417 goes all the way to Espanola, its length more than quadruples. Last time I checked, it would be sitting at 767 km. Next thing you know, it keeps getting pushed westward, replacing 401 as the longest Ontario freeway. Once it hits 1000 km, we need to make a monument of some sort, just to attract tourists. )

An imagined dialogue:
BC: Yo guys we have the longest highway in Canada: the 97, which sits at 2083 km.
ON: Wait till we get the 417 done. Then we'll be sitting at 2151 km.

If none can follow, my apologies. I did digress quite a bit in this comment.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 2:53 AM
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Military equipment is often moved by rail. It's cheaper than employing dozens of people and burning all the fuel to get things moving when you can just throw it on a train.
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 2:58 AM
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Military equipment is often moved by rail. It's cheaper than employing dozens of people and burning all the fuel to get things moving when you can just throw it on a train.
In that case, electrified rail is a plus.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:02 AM
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In that case, electrified rail is a plus.
We have electrified rail in Canada?
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:04 AM
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We have electrified rail in Canada?
I know we're digressing right now, but don't forget about Montreal.
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:09 AM
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I know we're digressing right now, but don't forget about Montreal.
Montreal has a electrified rail line that freight goes on?
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:15 AM
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Montreal has a electrified rail line that freight goes on?
Oh never mind then.
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 6:21 PM
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If the aim is to have a twinned TCH across all of Northern Ontario, I'd favour 11. However, I think having a twinned 17 from SSM to beyond North Bay is more urgent.
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 7:09 PM
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If the aim is to have a twinned TCH across all of Northern Ontario, I'd favour 11. However, I think having a twinned 17 from SSM to beyond North Bay is more urgent.
I agree with this.
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 9:43 PM
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If the aim is to have a twinned TCH across all of Northern Ontario, I'd favour 11. However, I think having a twinned 17 from SSM to beyond North Bay is more urgent.
If cost of twinning 17 all the way is much much greater than twinning 17 from Manitoba to Nipigon and from SSM to McNab Braeside and 11 from Nipigon to North Bay, then I suppose I would have gone with the latter option too. (Or, at the very least, extend the 417 to NW of Espanola, because truck traffic from there to Sudbury is heavy even on a Saturday evening.) Regardless, though, we are talking about an upward of $20B here. In order to keep the price tag low, people must not delay the work or play politics.

I do admit that 11 only has 317 km through the rocks (164 km from Nipigon to Beardmore or Geraldton, I don't remember which one, and 153 km from North Bay to New Liskeard) while 17 has 587 km (from Nipigon to SSM).

Furthermore, roads going to James Bay and Ring of Fire will start at the 11. Most importantly, though, people living in the real north will be happy to see a decrease in food price. (Oh, did I mention that the surrounding of 11 is not as environmentally sensitive as that of 17? I'm always scared of that one leak from a truck along Lake Superior Shore that will wreck the whole lake, especially given the quality of certain Ontario truck drivers. The last thing I want is them wreaking havoc on the future trans-canada freeway yo.)

If Queens Park's ever serious about linking Canada with a freeway, deciding which route will definitely spark a fierce debate.
Ps: What a dream/joke right lol? I really wonder what kind of government it will take to make that happen. In addition, this will require both the power that be, and the opposition, to be unanimous.
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 10:09 PM
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If cost of twinning 17 all the way is much much greater than twinning 17 from Manitoba to Nipigon and from SSM to McNab Braeside and 11 from Nipigon to North Bay, then I suppose I would have gone with the latter option too. (Or, at the very least, extend the 417 to NW of Espanola, because truck traffic from there to Sudbury is heavy even on a Saturday evening.) Regardless, though, we are talking about an upward of $20B here. In order to keep the price tag low, people must not delay the work or play politics.

I do admit that 11 only has 317 km through the rocks (164 km from Nipigon to Beardmore or Geraldton, I don't remember which one, and 153 km from North Bay to New Liskeard) while 17 has 587 km (from Nipigon to SSM).

Furthermore, roads going to James Bay and Ring of Fire will start at the 11. Most importantly, though, people living in the real north will be happy to see a decrease in food price. (Oh, did I mention that the surrounding of 11 is not as environmentally sensitive as that of 17? I'm always scared of that one leak from a truck along Lake Superior Shore that will wreck the whole lake, especially given the quality of certain Ontario truck drivers. The last thing I want is them wreaking havoc on the future trans-canada freeway yo.)

If Queens Park's ever serious about linking Canada with a freeway, deciding which route will definitely spark a fierce debate.
Ps: What a dream/joke right lol? I really wonder what kind of government it will take to make that happen. In addition, this will require both the power that be, and the opposition, to be unanimous.
Anything west of Thunder Bay is unappealing to Queens Park.

We are likely to see the 417 extended in small chunks west.

Realistically, at the current pace, it will not be completed in any of our life times.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 3:03 AM
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Anything west of Thunder Bay is unappealing to Queens Park.

We are likely to see the 417 extended in small chunks west.

Realistically, at the current pace, it will not be completed in any of our life times.
And 2 of the 3 bottlenecks are there... At least they should bridge Shabaqua Road to eliminate one of them.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 5:04 AM
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And 2 of the 3 bottlenecks are there... At least they should bridge Shabaqua Road to eliminate one of them.
You type as though anything the provincial government does is ever good for the The North.
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