Campaign for Atlanta Transportation Referendum Kicks Off

[atlantaguy]

^Bingo!

[waltlantz]

Originally Posted by mhays

It's not necessarily a black eye. The measure was a grab bag and had plenty for everyone to dislike, and it sounds like too many projects that voters never understood. The next one doesn't have to be that way.

Simplify, narrow the geography to the core few million, and make it only about transit. The urban and enviro crowd and much of the business community should get behind it. The roads can be a separate issue.

This approach (aside from the smaller geography) was successful in Seattle when we had a very similar roads and transit measure a few years ago which also failed.

I dunno. According to the AJC, this seemed like a "no more big govmint" type issue for opponents. Seeing as how transit equates to waste in some circles I think you would have to at least have the 50 50 split again even if you focus on the core 5 county area.

Frankly while admirable, I had no idea why they focused on such a large area politcally, it was bound to fail (regardless of metro area).

[BlindFatSnake]

What you must understand about Georgia republicans: they are hellbent on destroying MARTA and/or keeping it at 48 miles. If this boondoggle had passed, MARTA would NOT have been able to expand beyond its current 48 miles. ALL NEW RAIL would have been owned and operated by the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority.

How's that for a swift kick to the a$$. Now, the republicans are saddled with a 20% increase in the amount the state will match for local projects. Was 10% - now 30%. Let's see how they handle this EXTORTION.

Knowing the facts and reading HB277 will reveal a boondoggle laden with land mines and IEDs. And, they're blowing up in the faces of all those road-hugging republicans living in the suburbs.

Shut up and eat your crow... lmao

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

It lost. It wasn't close.

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

[Cirrus]

Are you being sarcastic, Cabasse?

I'm sure those of you in GA already knew. But lots of people from around the country were interested, and may not have. We don't all read the AJC. And since this is in the Transportation subforum instead of the Atlanta subforum, that means this is the thread where people from other cities get their updates on SSP. I don't think it was inappropriate to post the final outcome here.

[ardecila]

With a great climate, lovely rolling topography and a rich culture, Atlanta has the ingredients to be one of America's most beautiful cities. Unfortunately the city is also saddled with ugly ribbons of asphalt a mile wide, stretching out in all directions as far as the eye can look away.

Atlanta clearly needs alternatives... I found that out yesterday when it took me 40 minutes to get through the Medical Center area. Too bad it won't get there anytime soon.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by cabasse

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

Houston?

[atlantaguy]

Everyone needs to remember to not underestimate the core of the metro. Despite our totally hostile, dysfunctional and anti-Atlanta state government, we'll figure out a way to keep going. The burbs can choke on their own exhaust - Fulton/DeKalb and probably Gwinnett will figure out how to get around this.

Great fundamentals are already in place here. Just exactly how many cities have a single seat heavy rail ride from a massively world-connected airport to 4 of the largest/most important business districts in the entire region as we do (and yes, this includes the entire massive swath of the country from D.C. to Texas, including ALL all of Florida)? Think about it. Despite all the doom and gloom, for a major U.S. metro this is still a very desirable place to be. This isn't going away. The CORE of Atlanta continues to improve on a daily basis, and shows no signs of abating - despite the economy.

Everyone needs to just chill for a little while until this sorts out.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by cabasse

thanks for letting us know, cirrus! tbh, though, i wasn't expecting it to pass. this is jawjuh after all.

if a plan b ever coalesces, i'm going to be over 30 by that point, and i've already noticed time passing more rapidly. i don't think i want to live somewhere any longer where i'm going to be holding out for something better in the future. now the time begins for me to find that sweet spot of a city that's not too cold, not too expensive, not too hipster, not too pompous... etc

I've got news for you, Tim.

You already live there.

[M II A II R II K]

Few transit funding options for metro Atlanta


August 5, 2012

By Ariel Hart

Read More: http://www.ajc.com/news/few-transit-...s-1491071.html

.....

Over the next 40 years, 70 percent of the metro area's transportation budget will go just to fixing and maintaining what already exists, according to the ARC. Some new toll lanes will be built, but those are on limited corridors. Georgia Regional Transportation Authority Xpress commuter buses will likely have to win permanent state funding, or cease to exist.

.....

In addition, following last month, we now know:

- Revenue from the Ga. 400 toll, about $20 million per year before expenses, will cease next year, according to an announcement from the governor.

- Unless legislators change the law, the metro area's towns and counties will now pay more as matching funds for some state grants for local roads.

- Deal, following the election, closed the door on the possibility of new funding for expanding the rail network.

- Deal plans to focus on building the Ga. 400/I-285 interchange. That is a boon for a congested employment corridor. For other areas, if that means getting it done sooner, that would mean postponing funding for other projects — hundreds of millions of dollars worth — which currently take up that space in the budget.

- Congress finally passed a national transportation plan, signed by President Barack Obama on July 6. State leaders fear that changes it made may cut back Georgia's federal road funding by about 8 percent. Not to mention, it left long-term funding gaps unanswered.

.....

[shivtim]

http://eastatlanta.patch.com/blog_po...gs-i-took-away



"Results from Fulton and DeKalb were far more complicated. In these counties, the vast majority of intown residents supported the measure while the vast majority of suburban residents turned it down... The split did not fall on traditional lines of class or race."

"The Beltline is Wildly Popular Intown – For City of Atlanta residents, the T-SPLOST vote was really about the Beltline, by far the largest project falling under the Atlanta jurisdiction. The question was this: were we willing to contribute about $100-$150 each for the next 10 years if that meant the Beltline would arrive sooner than planned. Over fifty-nine percent of us answered yes, and in some neighborhoods closest to the Beltline that percentage approached 80. If the T-SPLOST was indeed a referendum on transit, intown residents answered clearly. We want more. Now."

[shivtim]

http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/0...r-own-destiny/

"The regional transportation sales tax was a rare opportunity for the 10-county region to invest in metro Atlanta’s future. And the tax went down in flames — 62 percent to 38 percent in the 10-county area — failing in all 10 counties. But a preliminary precinct-by-precinct analysis of the vote by the Atlanta Regional Commission shows a slightly different story. In the City of Atlanta, the tax passed by 60 percent to 40 percent. Not only that, the map shows that the area inside I-285 generally favored the tax while support declined in concentric circles surrounding the core.There’s a lesson in these results. The core of the region continues to be willing to invest in its transit and transportation infrastructure.That is over and above the penny sales tax that the City of Atlanta, Fulton and DeKalb counties have been investing in MARTA for more than 40 years."

[shivtim]

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-fa...nt?oid=6060933

"If there's anything to learn from last week's vote, it's that Atlantans and a good number of DeKalb County residents are willing to pay extra to build new transit, turn speedy intown roads into walkable areas, and synchronize traffic lights."

"Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton... should partner and build projects. According to state revenue estimates, an additional 1 percent sales tax in the three counties could generate an additional $3.1 billion or so over 10 years — which could be used to build the Beltline transit segments, rail to South DeKalb County, MARTA expansions into Roswell, or other projects."

[electricron]

Originally Posted by shivtim

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-fa...nt?oid=6060933

"If there's anything to learn from last week's vote, it's that Atlantans and a good number of DeKalb County residents are willing to pay extra to build new transit, turn speedy intown roads into walkable areas, and synchronize traffic lights."

"Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton... should partner and build projects. According to state revenue estimates, an additional 1 percent sales tax in the three counties could generate an additional $3.1 billion or so over 10 years — which could be used to build the Beltline transit segments, rail to South DeKalb County, MARTA expansions into Roswell, or other projects."

I agree with your assessment. Some taxpayers don't want "Regionalism". Too many urban and transportation planners forget why those living in suburbs decided to live there in the first place. They don't want to live the urban lifestyle, and they don't want to pay for it too.
This large 10 county regional tax plan was doomed from the beginning. Regionalism needs to be as small as possible initially. Start with the City of Atlanta and the Counties it's within. Then slowly add additional Counties and Cities to the tax plan, one at a time if necessary. 10 counties all at once was just too ambitious.

[themaguffin]

Something I stated last week in the Atlanta thread on this is that there is a broader funding issue regarding the metro and really the state. The state doesn't want to pay for anything and that is a reflection of a rigid anti-tax views of many residents. This has created an unsustainable tax code that despite the current transportation issues, they still don't want to consider changing. Instead they want to start with a regressive sales tax.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Everyone needs to remember to not underestimate the core of the metro. Despite our totally hostile, dysfunctional and anti-Atlanta state government, we'll figure out a way to keep going. The burbs can choke on their own exhaust - Fulton/DeKalb and probably Gwinnett will figure out how to get around this.

Great fundamentals are already in place here. Just exactly how many cities have a single seat heavy rail ride from a massively world-connected airport to 4 of the largest/most important business districts in the entire region as we do (and yes, this includes the entire massive swath of the country from D.C. to Texas, including ALL all of Florida)? Think about it. Despite all the doom and gloom, for a major U.S. metro this is still a very desirable place to be. This isn't going away. The CORE of Atlanta continues to improve on a daily basis, and shows no signs of abating - despite the economy.

Everyone needs to just chill for a little while until this sorts out.

Everyone here already seems to be pretty chill. The fact is, these results set Atlanta back at least a couple years, and that's bound to have some sort of effect on quality of life or population/economic growth.

Is there some sort of mechanism by which the core counties that voted in favor of the plan can band together? How long would they have to wait to put up a new referendum?

[atlantaguy]

^This link that was in the body of electricon's post will explain the current mindset that thankfully seems to cathing on FIRE ITP. (Inside the Perimeter - I-285 for those that aren't familiar).

http://clatl.com/atlanta/t-splost-fa...nt?oid=6060933

[SnyderBock]

The way Denver was able to pass their FasTracks sales tax, was by limiting the vote to the actual Regional Transportation District (RTD). Metro Denver is composed of 8 counties, but many of those counties have vast rural portions and only a small portion in the actual urbanized Denver Metro Area. Also, they didn't take it before the voters in such poor economic times as now, but that's not what I'm getting at...

If the vote had included the entirety of every county which dips into the metro area, it likely would have not been successfully passed. The vote was limited to the actual district which is served by RTD. So everyone who was allowed to vote, where people who lived within the district and thus have access to use the existing public transportation as well as the expanded public transportation, being voted on.

A state-wide vote for a sales tax which would primarily be spent on transit in metro Denver, would have failed miserably. Heck, there are large numbers of people who did vote against FasTracks, simply because they lived in far-flung exo-burbs (they tend to be very pro-auto, anti-transit), because they didn't want to help pay for something they would never likely use. Now just expand that across the entire state, and it would be a landslid defeat.

One key, before FasTracks was added to the ballot, was the Regional Transportation District (RTD); Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG)*; and the Metro Mayors Caucus (CMMC), all got together to make trans-governmental agreements/compromises based on each communities needs and public input from each municipality within the RTD district, to finalize the actual FasTracks transit expansion plan which would be taken before voters.

In fact, this was a fairly unprecedented cooperation for an entire urban metro area working together to develop a regional transit plan to take before voters. It was heralded as a model for other metro areas across the country to use as an example on how one metro area can work together as "one city," for the greater good of the entire metro population.

*The Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG) fosters regional cooperation among county and municipal governments in the Denver metropolitan area.

Mission Statement
DRCOG is local officials working together to address the region's challenges for today and tomorrow.

Vision Statement
Enhancing and protecting the quality of life in our region

[mhays]

Denver is also a lesson on timing and public mood. The economy ruined the revenue math of the original package, and now they're holding off on voting for the second tax package until the polling gets better. Based on my limited information, that's probably about waiting for a better economy, and establishing more of a track record for RTD so that voters will trust it more. Also much like Atlanta, it's skewed somewhat by the large geography, and by the focus on longer-distance systems rather than in-town coverage.

[Beta_Magellan]

The RTD also has a reputation for controlling construction and operating costs. I don’t get the impression MARTA (or GDOT, for that matter) are nearly as well-regarded.