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  #2441  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 9:09 PM
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They REALLY need to get on the ball with this whole thing, as this could be the high-rise that launches HBG forward. And I say this because of one "simple" thing: the skybar. IMO that elevates the game and brings HBG into a whole new realm of classiness, which is what it needs for sure...

It really is a shame how loooong things take to get done in that city. I understand Thompson/council's point but making things too difficult and cumbersome chases off more developers than it attracts, which is a lesson HBG should've learned countless times by now...
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  #2442  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 1:24 AM
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I've heard/read in several sources that Devon Seafood Grill (devonseafood.com) is coming to the Hershey Press Building beside Houlihan's. They have locations in Philly, Chicago, and Milwaukee, and this would definitely be another step up for area dining. I'm still trying to find an article online...anyone else read or hear about this?
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  #2443  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 2:21 AM
Mrmidtown Mrmidtown is offline
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Ronald H Brown Charter school

Does anyone know anything about the RH Brown Charter school building on Forester and Green St? After the school closed it sat empty for about a year. Weeds grew everywhere and trash started to collect. About 2 months ago I saw an auction sign on the building. Tonight I noticed a new sign that read "Project being financed by Graystone bank". I would love to see this old school turned into upscale apts or condos. It also would be great if something was done w/the Ronald Brown property on third and boas.
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  #2444  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 12:16 PM
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That would make an awesome condo complex. It has some very classy architecture imo. I've heard nothing.
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  #2445  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 10:33 PM
danwxman danwxman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingy04 View Post
I've heard/read in several sources that Devon Seafood Grill (devonseafood.com) is coming to the Hershey Press Building beside Houlihan's. They have locations in Philly, Chicago, and Milwaukee, and this would definitely be another step up for area dining. I'm still trying to find an article online...anyone else read or hear about this?
They are indeed coming to Hershey. I emailed the general manager of the Philadelphia restaurant and got this reply:

There will be a Devon Seafood Grill opening sometime in the fall of 2008 in the Hershey market.
Unfortunately, I do not have an address.

Sincerely

Harry F. Weckerly Jr
General Manager
Devon Seafood Grill
225 S. 18th Street
Philadelphia PA. 19103
215.546.5940
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  #2446  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 4:09 AM
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210 N Second St Tower Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
They REALLY need to get on the ball with this whole thing, as this could be the high-rise that launches HBG forward. And I say this because of one "simple" thing: the skybar. IMO that elevates the game and brings HBG into a whole new realm of classiness, which is what it needs for sure...

It really is a shame how loooong things take to get done in that city. I understand Thompson/council's point but making things too difficult and cumbersome chases off more developers than it attracts, which is a lesson HBG should've learned countless times by now...
I've been lurking on the Forum for nearly a year and finally decided to make the leap to "registered user" status. This is my first post, so please go easy on me!

I have engaged both Mayor Reed and City Council on this project via email and I have also attended the City Council Meeting in late March and the Community and Economic Development [CED] Meeting on April 1st. From what I've learned at the CED meeting, the developer on the 210 N 2nd St tower has been before Council previously [at least once and maybe more], on a project that was withdrawn/changed/altered. So, I do understand that Council might be a bit skeptical about how serious this developer is. Council members also do not want the Dunlap Building destroyed if nothing is going in its place. I understand that and actually agree with it. A prime example of such a situation is the eyesore at the SE corner of Second and State Sts., where the new Aloft Hotel is to be built. The buildings were cleared and the fill was tamped in, but no development as taken place there...and won't until this summer, at the earliest. That leaves the empty lot and the facing of some very ugly buildings exposed to one of the major traffic corridors in the city.

However, I was also a bit concerned to watch Council's give and take with the Housing and Community Development Director Dan Leppo over the proposed bond criteria. One Councilwoman suggested that the proposed ordinance for development bonds require that developers begin their projects no later than 90 days after final approval. I do not know why that figure was put out there and I'd bet that developers around the world would say that figure was arbitrary, as I think it is. Does anyone have any knowledge on whether or not that's even a reasonable expectation?

The other thing I learned, according to the Mayor's Office/Administration, is that Council cannot require a bond on the 210 N 2nd St tower, as the bond ordinance was not in place prior to the application for approval. To do so would be a violation of PA Law. One Councilwoman challenged Mr. Leppo on this and asked to see the statute which prohibits retroactive implementation of new application requirements. I have to give it to Dan Leppo: he was prepared and had a copy of the statute to give to the councilwoman. This fact seems to mean that the Council has unnecessarily delayed this tower, hoping to force the developer into a large performance bond, which they cannot - by Law - require. The 210 N 2nd St developer has offered to post a $250,000 bond voluntarily - as a show of good faith - which will be payable to the City if/when the Dunlap Building is torn down and no tower is built, as promised.

If I was Mr. Giorgione and Partners and Alex Hartzler and a few others, I think I'd try to have an "education session" with City Council members. It seems to me that Council members need the input of the development community and they're not getting it. Any local developers might want to consider speaking to Council so that their future projects might have a better chance.

Council is to take up the approval on this project again at its April 8th meeting. I'll try to be there and report on what's happening.

Hope all this proves helpful/interesting to all of you Harrisburg Thread readers.
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  #2447  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 8:15 PM
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Wow, talk about an entrance! Welcome, chris.butcher!

Quote:
To do so would be a violation of PA Law.
This is what has always annoyed me about Council and Mayor Reed: the "cowboy mentality" that they ALL seem to display time and time again. No regard for the law, what their constituents REALLY want...

If it were up to me, Harrisburg would get a complete and total overhaul, we would start fresh and rebuild from the ground up [referring to the political landscape]. IMO it is still a "go nowhere town" because things still move terribly slow while many parts of the rest of the world, which is already ahead, moves even faster. I'm all for being careful with new development, but standing in the way of trend setting projects is just plain dumb...
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  #2448  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 3:53 AM
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Thank you for the welcome, EastSideHBG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
Wow, talk about an entrance! Welcome, chris.butcher!

This is what has always annoyed me about Council and Mayor Reed: the "cowboy mentality" that they ALL seem to display time and time again. No regard for the law, what their constituents REALLY want...

If it were up to me, Harrisburg would get a complete and total overhaul, we would start fresh and rebuild from the ground up [referring to the political landscape]. IMO it is still a "go nowhere town" because things still move terribly slow while many parts of the rest of the world, which is already ahead, moves even faster. I'm all for being careful with new development, but standing in the way of trend setting projects is just plain dumb...
I agree: too often, both Mayor Reed and City Council have the "cowboy mentality"... and sadly, it is displayed on both sides. Btw, I've lived in H'Burg for nearly 15 years, so I've certainly seen my share of these "he said, they said" types of maneuvers. And as to changing things politically: we're long past due for that! But, so much of the form of local government has to do with Pennsylvania's antiquated laws. They are not compatible with current trends in urbanization, population redistribution and sprawl. Plus, there is the political necessity of fighting larger cities such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh at the state level. Both cities have major problems [Pittsburgh was on the verge of bankruptcy just a couple of years ago] but they also have more political muscle, because they have consolidated their populations and annexed surrounding suburbs. Now that the system works for them, they're not about to let another player [Harrisburg, or even Allentown] into the "game" to interfere in their state benefits. So, what we end up with is no change in local government laws. This is just part of what Harrisburg is up against. And it IS frustrating, I agree!

And as you pointed out, the other part of the story does have to do with the pace of approvals for development projects and the "obstacles" placed in the way by so many in the City. I was very struck by Council Members at the CED Meeting saying that they were pro-development, BUT in the very next breath, suggesting changes to the city ordinances which would negatively impact development. Harrisburg is, despite all this, still reaching a critical mass where things will change, and will change quickly, regardless of Council or the Mayor. There are going to be larger changes ahead which I expect will change the landscape forever. Mayor Reed will retire at some point. City Council has already seen one slate of new people and will undoubtedly see another. Developers will come in with larger projects. Things will change....but not as fast as you, or I, might like them to.

Btw, thanks for moderating this thread. Its a good place to keep tabs on things in the Capital Region of PA and you do a good job moderating it.
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  #2449  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 9:13 PM
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I couldn't agree more!

No problem at all RE: the welcome, and you and the other forumers here are what keeps this thread moving! Which brings me to:

Thanks for the compliments/kind words! Any help, input, etc., you would like to give with this thread is most welcome. I no longer live in da 'burg as you may already know and am only half in the loop these days, as there is more than enough here in Philly to keep me busy! And truth be told, I don't really like going back to HBG much (you could probably count on one hand how many times a year I go back since moving in mid-'06), so I don't get to see much firsthand anymore either...
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  #2450  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 12:09 AM
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210 N. Second Approved (Finally) **Breaking News

City Council OKs office tower for Second Street
by JOHN LUCIEW

Tuesday April 08, 2008, 7:40 PM
After several weeks of delay, Harrisburg City Council tonight approved plans for an 18-story retail and office tower at North Second and Locust streets.

Rick Galiardo, one of four partners in the project, said the developers would now begin to line up tenants for the 13 floors of office space and the first-floor retail area. He said there was no precise timetable for when construction would begin.

As part of the deal, the developers agreed to double its bond on the Dunlap building, which would be razed, to $500,000.

The bond, which would be released by the city one the project is built, is part of a zoning regulation being debated to protect significant buildings in historic areas from being demolished indiscriminately.

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  #2451  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by crs921 View Post
City Council OKs office tower for Second Street
by JOHN LUCIEW

Tuesday April 08, 2008, 7:40 PM
After several weeks of delay, Harrisburg City Council tonight approved plans for an 18-story retail and office tower at North Second and Locust streets.

Rick Galiardo, one of four partners in the project, said the developers would now begin to line up tenants for the 13 floors of office space and the first-floor retail area. He said there was no precise timetable for when construction would begin.

As part of the deal, the developers agreed to double its bond on the Dunlap building, which would be razed, to $500,000.

The bond, which would be released by the city one the project is built, is part of a zoning regulation being debated to protect significant buildings in historic areas from being demolished indiscriminately.

You beat me to the punch. The Morning edition of the Patriot News had a blurb in the state and local section. Has the council set a deadline on the bond? If the building isn't razed by a certain time when will the bond expire. Very happy to see The Tom Sawyer monstrocity go. The 'Burg actually let one go through without excessively damaging it. Hopefully the $500k won't adversly effect their cashflow.
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  #2452  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 1:19 PM
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Besides this is a "downtown" location. Historic rules shouldn't apply, there are plenty of historic districts around town. Remember the real reason that the historic districts were created was to keep the neighborhoods from going into disrepair and to encourage investment.


THIS IS INVESTMENT!!!!
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  #2453  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 6:59 PM
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CBS 21 Link to On-Air and Text Story - 210 N Second Tower

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  #2454  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 9:00 PM
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Carrabba's coming to Harrisburg Mall.

According to a slide show on Feldman Mall Properties (the mall's owner) website, Carrabba's will soon be coming to the mall property. Other updates are also in the slideshow. See link below.

http://www.feldmanmall.com/Harrisburg-SlideShow.html
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  #2455  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 3:29 AM
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210 N Second St Tower

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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Has the council set a deadline on the bond? If the building isn't razed by a certain time when will the bond expire. Hopefully the $500k won't adversely effect their cashflow.
Well, you've all gotten the good news about the approval of the proposed building. Here are some of the details not reported by the local media:

There are 11 conditions to the construction of this building. Unfortunately, I do not have all 11 conditions yet, but I'm working on that. I do know that condition #2 was this bond, which is correctly reported as $500,000. The brief history of the bond begins with a concern by Historic Harrisburg about the Dunlap Building and the effect of its destruction on the first block of Locust Street. Basically, this was driven by Councilman Dan Miller, who said that the goal was not to loose the building until the City was assured that the 18 story building would actually be constructed. To mitigate that concern, the developers suggested placing their demolition permits into 'escrow' until they were ready to go. Linda Thompson, Council President, supported this as did other members of Council. However, Mr. Miller seems to have rejected this idea and took advantage of the "fury" at losing the Dunlap building, whipped up by the Patriot News, to force a delay in the project. He basically rejected the escrow of the demolition permits, as proposed.

Then the developer suggested a $250,000 performance bond, payable to the City. The City did not - and still does not - have an ordinance requiring the posting of such a bond. It is noteworthy that the developers proposed the posting of this bond voluntarily. But again, certain Council members bulked at the bond amount, including Councilwoman Susan Wilson, despite the fact that the City had no ordinance requiring a bond payment if the project fell through. Apparently, the members of the Economic and Community Development Committee met and decided to raise the required bond amount. At the Council meeting at the end of March, with one Council Member absent, Council deadlocked on the project, voting 3-3 to require a bond in the amount of $1,000,000, far in excess of the value of the Dunlap building. This, in my view was too much and I wrote Council and told them they were being irresponsible in delaying this project.

Council again delayed approval at their April 1st meeting, tabling action on this proposal until the Economic and Community Development Committee could meet and decide this. At the next meeting of the Economic and Community Development Committee, the bond proposal was reviewed and the $500,000 figure was bandied about, eventually making it into the resolution voted on at the April 8th meeting. Council President Linda Thompson noted that the developer voluntarily agreed to the $500,000 bond, in order to rid the project of any further delays and to overcome the controversy created by the local media. In answer to your question, YoungGun, I don't think this will hurt their cashflow. Remember that a bond is usually secured for a fraction of its payable value, just like an insurance policy.

I do see Council's point in approving this bond, but it was - in my view - not very professional to hold these local developers to a standard that did not exist before. Basically, Council decided to change the game in the middle of an application. Frankly, in my view, Council only decided to approve this project after two events: the developers agreeing to the $500,000 bond and the Administration's Housing and Community Development Director, Dan Leppo, advising Council that they could not legally impose a change in the application requirements in the middle of the approval process. To do so, would have been a violation of PA State Law.

That said, these developers have been before Council three times before:
* In 2002, they proposed a 12-story building on this site;
* In 2004, they proposed a restaurant, which eventually became the current Tom Sawyer Diner;
* In 2008, they have proposed the 18-story building, as you've seen it outlined on this forum and in the local media.
So, you might understand Council's skepticism over the proposals from this developer.

And one more point: after all the controversy, delays and problems, the developers now say they will begin to lease this space to interested parties. I thought that they already had interested tenants!
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  #2456  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Chris,

I am newer to the city than you are, so correct me if I am wrong. Wasn't the property that this new building is to sit on originally sold to the developers from the city after they built the parking garage? If so they should be much more accepting of the development plans. Also I thought that the Tom Sawyer Dinner was to be a "filler" until they could get the plans together for this new 18 story building.
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  #2457  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingy04 View Post
Carrabba's coming to Harrisburg Mall.

According to a slide show on Feldman Mall Properties (the mall's owner) website, Carrabba's will soon be coming to the mall property. Other updates are also in the slideshow. See link below.

http://www.feldmanmall.com/Harrisburg-SlideShow.html
Klingy, I had no idea that the Harrisburg Mall was such a POS a few years back. Now I can see why they are trying to break the Harrisburg East Mall moniker. Hopefully the mall can continue to expand. I was at several nice "large" malls this past weekend in Jersey. It would be nice to see the Harrisburg Mall morph into one of these. All very large malls can't be built in a single phase.
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  #2458  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 1:11 PM
crs921 crs921 is offline
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thanks everyone

hey there,
i have been getting tons of emails from people on this forum that they used the email addresses that i provided on an earlier post (of city council members and mayor) to send emails in support the 210 n. second project. THANK YOU. until i am physically able to be back in harrisburg later this summer (the current plan) --- i am pleased that so many of you took the time to tell our elected officials that harrisburg wants "change" and we encourage development and investment! we need to continue telling the mayor and city council that progressive projects that expand the taxbase - and skyline - of harrisburg are not only desired, but critical, to the continued growth of our downtown.

now we need to continue our efforts in not only supporting this project, but trying to get other projects started! (i'd like to see something taller than 300 or 400 feet for harrisburg --- maybe glass, etc) our next hope is getting the federal courthouse to go tall and modern at its current Walnut St. location (which is a possibility if you look at other GSA federal courthouse projects.)!

thanks again - i am looking forward to getting back to harrisburg and helping progress continue (we should start a club or meet-up group!)

-CHRIS
chris921@live.com

Here is the contact info. of the GSA...
GSA will continue to have an open process throughout the project and continue to solicit public input. For comments and suggestions regarding the new Courthouse, contact GSA by email at HarrisburgCourthouse@gsa.gov or on (215) 446-4933. Written inquiries may also be sent to:

U.S. General Services Administration, Mid-Atlantic Region
Attention: Abby Low, Project Manager
20 N. 8th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19107-3191
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  #2459  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 2:53 AM
Mrmidtown Mrmidtown is offline
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Exclamation pipedream projects @ 210 N 2nd St

Here is an example of one of the many projects that never came to life at
210 N Second St. I found this in the 2004 city press archives.


MAJOR NEW RESTAURANT SLATED FOR CITY: OPENING NEXT SPRING
Harrisburg, PA – Mayor Stephen R. Reed today announced plans for a major new restaurant in the city called “Thunder Bay”, which, when completed and open next spring, will be amongst the largest in the city and region.

Construction will occur on a vacant site at 204 to 218 North Second Street, in the midst of Harrisburg’s famed Restaurant Row, with the family-styled restaurant specializing in casual dining, featuring fresh seafood, hard shell crabs, gourmet burgers and bar-b-qued chicken and ribs. It will be over 10,000 square feet of prime dining and entertainment space, rising to three stories in height, and will include a clerestory to give it the look of a traditional market building. It will have 129 feet of frontage along North Second Street.

Reed said the new facility will seat well over 300 persons and will include an expansive outdoor seating courtyard covered by a canvas awning. The front façade of the structure will be large glass panels. The second floor restaurant area will provide mezzanine dining overlooking the restaurant, courtyard and street below.

Project costs are estimated at $1.5 million, with at least 25 construction jobs and another 75 restaurant jobs. Construction begins this Fall.

When the River Street Parking Garage, which opened two years ago, was being planned, the Mayor instructed the Harrisburg Parking Authority to not build from Front to Second Street but, instead, to construct a taller garage structure in the middle of the tract – thus leaving two land parcels available for later economic development, with one on Front Street and the other on Second Street.

Since then, a new 186,000 square foot building has been built at the Front Street site and was dedicated earlier this year. It is fully occupied. With today’s announcement, the Second Street parcel will now be developed. The land area had previously been a surface parking lot.

The restaurant will be operated by a joint venture that includes Ron Kamionka, Rick Galiardo and Donald Brown, Jr., -- three individuals who already separately own and operate other downtown restaurants.

“A project of this scale is very significantly benefited by having the combined experience, skill and success of these major entrepreneurs in directing its operation,” Reed said.

The project developer is GR Development Corporation, LLC., whose principals are Andrew Giorgione and Gregory Rothman, a major real estate expert, and the Phoenix Development Group. GR Development and Phoenix Development have an option to purchase the land from the Harrisburg Parking Authority. Payment and transfer of title to the development entity will occur in the next seventy days.
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  #2460  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 3:45 AM
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210 N Second St Tower

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I am newer to the city than you are, so correct me if I am wrong. Wasn't the property that this new building is to sit on originally sold to the developers from the city after they built the parking garage? If so they should be much more accepting of the development plans. Also I thought that the Tom Sawyer Dinner was to be a "filler" until they could get the plans together for this new 18 story building.
I believe you are correct about the developers holding title to the land. This track was available for sale shortly after the completion of the River Street Parking Garage, which, for those not local or who haven't seen it, sits in the middle of the first block of buildings between Locust and Pine Streets, next to River Street [it bisects the block north to south]. If my memory serves, the developers paid between $500,000 and $1,000.000 for that tract of ground along Second Street. I remember thinking at the time that the price was evidence of Harrisburg starting to "in-fill".

My understanding was that the Tom Sawyer Diner was a "filler", approved by Council, until a better project could be put together. As I noted in an earlier post, these developers proposed a 12-story building here, but then rescinded that plan, because two of the developers were involved in the 18 Market Square Project, just north of the Hilton Hotel. That building took many of the tenants that were going to move into the 210 N. Second St. site, so there was no need for the 12-story.

I think its the length of time to get to this 18-story development, that has caused a lot of Council members to be skeptical. The other thing is that they're leary of having another site like the south-east corner of Locust and 2nd Street, which is still a parking lot. The owners of that tract promised to put a building there within five years. So Council does not want to see the downtown area being used for surface parking or things like the Tom Sawyer Diner for years on end. I understand and support that point of view, frankly.

The interesting thing about Harrisburg development is that there is almost always a good group of interested tenants looking for a downtown location before any building even gets proposed. That is good for the developers, as it assures them of a base group of tenants to work from. There really isn't that much "speculative" development going on in town...at least not yet. Perhaps when the economy picks up, we'll see some of that.
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