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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1241  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2024, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
^That Free Press article says Portage and Main is currently the sixth busiest intersection in Winnipeg. And it's down since pre-pandemic times.

Does anyone know what the top 5 are? I would like to see the numbers.
I think I saw somewhere Regent and Lag is 1 or 2.
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  #1242  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2024, 6:32 PM
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In 2018, it was

1) Regent and Lag
2) Portage and Morary
3) Portage and Main
4) Waverley and Bishop
5) Kenaston and Sterling Lyon
6) Century and Ness

I'm guess these moved up, and Portage and Main moved down to 6?
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  #1243  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2024, 11:43 PM
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Council has voted 11-3 to reopen P&M to pedestrians next year and close the concourse: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...ound-concourse
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  #1244  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pegster View Post
Council has voted 11-3 to reopen P&M to pedestrians next year and close the concourse: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...ound-concourse

Closing is still TBD, it was never studied and they have no idea what it will cost nor consulted with any of the property owners, the closing aspect could change once there is "more information" in the future, but good news on the opening at grade.

Quote:
An early estimate suggests it would cost up to $50 million to close the concourse, though the council motion calls on city staff to complete a more thorough assessment and plan before the 2025 budget process.
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  #1245  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 1:11 AM
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Well it’s been almost 50 years but finally the city has made the right decision. I hope when I visit 2025-onwards or move back to the city I will finally be able to cross that damn intersection by foot.

Cheers everyone in celebration of a monumental victory for Downtown Winnipeg and providing a future that’s more walkable and accessible for all people!
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  #1246  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 1:21 AM
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Browaty voted for it. Holy cow.
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  #1247  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:34 AM
Kris22 Kris22 is offline
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Finally. This whole open it/close it debate/debacle was so painful to live through and I honestly thought it would be dragged out for another decade. Let's sleep easy tonight! haha
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  #1248  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:52 AM
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Portage & Main

Very pleased there is now political will to open P&M. The sooner this can move forward and be actualized the better! Once everyone sees these cross walks blend into our urban fabric and add some vitality without traffic disruption, this issue will disappear.

I also believe the discussion of closing the underground is far from over. The City had an obligation to set aside funds for these infrastructure maintenance issues and failed to do so. The adjacent owners have paid substantial taxes for over 40 years to also ensure infrastructure they rely on is maintained. There will be a quiet “full court press” to find a way for the access to be maintained. The owners have already paid for this maintenance and now will expect it to be dealt with. It’s not their exclusive responsibility to fund these differed maintenance issues again.

I really believe people will attempt to remain quiet on this issue until the crosswalks are in place.

I’m betting on crosswalks with the underground maintained…
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  #1249  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 3:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
Browaty voted for it. Holy cow.
Never thought I'd see the day either. Holy moly.

Good news all around.
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  #1250  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 5:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
Very pleased there is now political will to open P&M. The sooner this can move forward and be actualized the better! Once everyone sees these cross walks blend into our urban fabric and add some vitality without traffic disruption, this issue will disappear.

I also believe the discussion of closing the underground is far from over. The City had an obligation to set aside funds for these infrastructure maintenance issues and failed to do so. The adjacent owners have paid substantial taxes for over 40 years to also ensure infrastructure they rely on is maintained. There will be a quiet “full court press” to find a way for the access to be maintained. The owners have already paid for this maintenance and now will expect it to be dealt with. It’s not their exclusive responsibility to fund these differed maintenance issues again.

I really believe people will attempt to remain quiet on this issue until the crosswalks are in place.

I’m betting on crosswalks with the underground maintained…
No way the underground closes. It’s all about leverage. With the barricades up the city is completely responsible for paying to maintain the underground. The property owners benefit but we pay for it. Let people cross at grade and threaten to close the underground and suddenly all the leverage flips from the property owners to the city. They have ten years before it’s a real issue. Its all a play. Open it up and then turn to the property owners and say we are closing the underground and you will be cut off from the skywalk system. if you want to keep the underground open, let’s talk about how much it’s worth to you. It’s a genius plan.
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  #1251  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 11:39 AM
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^That’s my take as well. Wanna live in a neoliberal world? Have the businesses that rely on the infrastructure pay for it themselves. If it means taxpayer maintenance dollars can be directed elsewhere then I’m here for it.
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  #1252  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 11:43 AM
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As FYI the lift is currently broken at one of the buildins in the underground. Feel bad for anyone that needs it and also can't cross P&M. The underground has way too many up stairs, down stairs to get in out of each concourse
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  #1253  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
Browaty voted for it. Holy cow.
From the CBC news website

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...oved-1.7151756

"The chief proponent of that plebiscite, Coun. Jeff Browaty, said he would vote for the mayor's motion if it was changed to explicitly call for a traffic study."

Such a weird proviso. There seem to have been endless traffic studies, so this seems like an excuse to me. Not that I care, the vote finally went the right way.
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  #1254  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
I also believe the discussion of closing the underground is far from over. The City had an obligation to set aside funds for these infrastructure maintenance issues and failed to do so. The adjacent owners have paid substantial taxes for over 40 years to also ensure infrastructure they rely on is maintained. There will be a quiet “full court press” to find a way for the access to be maintained. The owners have already paid for this maintenance and now will expect it to be dealt with. It’s not their exclusive responsibility to fund these differed maintenance issues again.
Yeah, that argument will go just about no where. You could say the same for any infrastructure maintenance in this city. We all pay for it.

And for a poor city with vastly more important infrastructure that is crumbling (sewer, roads, bridges, transit) a plea by a few comparatively wealthy buidling owners is gonna fall really flat.
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  #1255  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
No way the underground closes. It’s all about leverage. With the barricades up the city is completely responsible for paying to maintain the underground. The property owners benefit but we pay for it. Let people cross at grade and threaten to close the underground and suddenly all the leverage flips from the property owners to the city. They have ten years before it’s a real issue. Its all a play. Open it up and then turn to the property owners and say we are closing the underground and you will be cut off from the skywalk system. if you want to keep the underground open, let’s talk about how much it’s worth to you. It’s a genius plan.
If I remember correctly any past discussion of opening P & M during the period of the original agreement was shut down immediately by the property owners. They basically used it like a club; no discussion, just suck it up, city.

IMO: If trueviking's analysis is correct, Gillingham has not only shown a (somewhat) progressive streak, but a canniness as a politician to get things done. As sad as it is to admit, he knows what a large chunk of Winnipeggers primarily care about; their taxes and their drive time. He's been able to use both of these to move along a positive project and get public opinion on his side.
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  #1256  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2024, 4:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
If I remember correctly any past discussion of opening P & M during the period of the original agreement was shut down immediately by the property owners. They basically used it like a club; no discussion, just suck it up, city.

IMO: If trueviking's analysis is correct, Gillingham has not only shown a (somewhat) progressive streak, but a canniness as a politician to get things done. As sad as it is to admit, he knows what a large chunk of Winnipeggers primarily care about; their taxes and their drive time. He's been able to use both of these to move along a positive project and get public opinion on his side.
Here's my tinfoil hat covered brain analysis on this on what the possible outcome would be.

Scott gets voted in as mayor of Winnipeg, lays relatively low while understanding and going over ongoing issues. Later, almost out of nowhere more than a year after being elected, introduces the idea to open P&M with some actual reasons used as leverage, one of them proposing to close down the intersection for 5 years if they want to go ahead with the idea of replacing the membrane. Get's almost everyone on his side and passes a motion to open the intersection, but hesitant to close the underground circus.

Consults with designers and engineers and to nobody's surprise, there is some money left over to actually open the intersection and keep the underground open with the major last hurdle being if citizens are okay with traffic chaos for at least 5 years. At that point, traffic patterns would change in those 5 years, and by the time intersection is fully reconstructed and reopened once again, more pedestrians will be walking around that intersection with the addition of the transit station on Portage Ave E. Traffic patterns and volume would increase again, but nowhere near to pre-reconstruction and closure of Portage and Main. Things have worked out in the end, and the conversation of opening/closing Portage and Main has been put to bed once and for all.
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  #1257  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2024, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
As FYI the lift is currently broken at one of the buildins in the underground. Feel bad for anyone that needs it and also can't cross P&M. The underground has way too many up stairs, down stairs to get in out of each concourse
The entrance from the Scotiabank building closes at 10pm, too, so you're SOL if you try and cross to/from that corner at night.
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  #1258  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 11:00 PM
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Portage & Main really needs a pedestrian scramble intersection.
If Edmonton can do it (I believe they have at least 2 downtown now) so can Winnipeg.
Bump out the corners so the crossing isn't as far as well.

Video Link


It's so stupid that in a city (Canada's 6th largest city limits) of nearly 800,000 in a metro rapidly approaching 1M that the main/busiest intersection downtown became hostile to pedestrians for decades!
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  #1259  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
Portage & Main really needs a pedestrian scramble intersection.
If Edmonton can do it (I believe they have at least 2 downtown now) so can Winnipeg.
Bump out the corners so the crossing isn't as far as well.

Video Link


It's so stupid that in a city (Canada's 6th largest city limits) of nearly 800,000 in a metro rapidly approaching 1M that the main/busiest intersection downtown became hostile to pedestrians for decades!
IMO P & M is the perfect place to establish the city's first pedestrian scramble.

I think we have to remember how desperate the city was for some downtown development when "Trizec" and the underground walkways were first agreed to. The downtown is practically humming these days compared to back then.
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  #1260  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2024, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
Portage & Main really needs a pedestrian scramble intersection.
If Edmonton can do it (I believe they have at least 2 downtown now) so can Winnipeg.
Bump out the corners so the crossing isn't as far as well.

Video Link


It's so stupid that in a city (Canada's 6th largest city limits) of nearly 800,000 in a metro rapidly approaching 1M that the main/busiest intersection downtown became hostile to pedestrians for decades!
Excellent. Thank you.

Population is likely higher now.
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