Macy's closing 4 Downtown stores across US

[esquire]

Originally Posted by fflint

Sacramento has a high-performing downtown Macy's. Portland has a few downtown department stores, as does San Diego if I recall correctly.

It's interesting that you say Sacramento's downtown Macy's is doing well... in most US cities outside of maybe the six or seven largest and most affluent, it seems that the downtown department stores are legacy assets that remain out of sheer inertia, just kind of chugging along despite being a shadow of what they once were. It's nice to know that there are some exceptions to that...

[Steely Dan]

here's the traditional downtown department store* scene in the midwest's 10 major cities, according to google:

Chicago:
- macy's state street
- macy's mag mile
- bloomingdales
- nordstrom
- nieman marcus
- saks fifth avenue
- barneys


Cincinnati:
- macy's
- saks fifth avenue


Minneapolis:
- macy's


Indianapolis:
- carson's


Milwaukee:
- boston store




Detroit:
none


Cleveland:
none


St. Louis:
none


Columbus:
none


Kansas City:
none



(*) for the purposes of this list, "traditional downtown department store" does not include big box retailers (target, walmart, etc.) or discount retailers (TJ maxx, marshalls, etc.)

[ethereal_reality]

The last five don't have any department stores downtown? I'm shocked.

__

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

The last five don't have any department stores downtown?

none that i could find via a google search.

but i welcome any corrections/omissions.

[dimondpark]

Downtown San Francisco:
Barneys New York
Barneys New York Men's Store( coming soon)
Bloomingdales
Macy's
Macy's Men's Store
Neiman Marcus
Nordstrom
Saks Fifth Avenue
Saks Fifth Avenue Men's Store
Wilkes Bashford

I separated the Men's stores that are freestanding locations.

Wilkes Bashford is smaller but it is SFs original answer to Barneys.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by 10023

Anyway, I can see two types of cities where downtown department stores can continue to thrive in the US - the biggest, most urban ones (of which only a handful exist), or smaller cities where one big downtown department store is just as easy for everyone to drive to as one located in a suburban mall. I'm not that familiar with Sacremento, but perhaps this is a decent example.

Downtown Sacramento draws 100,000 government workers on an average workday, many of them by rail and bus. It's an easy walk to Macy's for most of them, although (unsurprisingly) there is a parking garage as well.

Originally Posted by esquire

It's interesting that you say Sacramento's downtown Macy's is doing well... in most US cities outside of maybe the six or seven largest and most affluent, it seems that the downtown department stores are legacy assets that remain out of sheer inertia, just kind of chugging along despite being a shadow of what they once were. It's nice to know that there are some exceptions to that...

There were once two different Macy's downtown, and one of them closed to make room for the new basketball arena. The remaining one is profitable enough that Macy's held on to the property despite being offered a lot of money by the same arena developers.

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Downtown San Francisco:
Barneys New York
Barneys New York Men's Store( coming soon)
Bloomingdales
Macy's
Macy's Men's Store
Neiman Marcus
Nordstrom
Saks Fifth Avenue
Saks Fifth Avenue Men's Store
Wilkes Bashford

I separated the Men's stores that are freestanding locations.

Wilkes Bashford is smaller but it is SFs original answer to Barneys.

Isn't Gump's technically a department store as well?

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

here's the traditional downtown department store* scene in the midwest's 10 major cities, according to google:

Chicago:
- macy's state street
- macy's mag mile
- bloomingdales
- nordstrom
- nieman marcus
- saks fifth avenue
- barneys

There's a tiny Carson's next to Union Station as well.

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

The last five don't have any department stores downtown? I'm shocked.

St. Louis had a Macy's in downtown, but it folded a few years back. Downtown shopping is currently a foreign concept in metro St. Louis.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Downtown San Francisco:
Barneys New York
Barneys New York Men's Store( coming soon)
Bloomingdales
Macy's
Macy's Men's Store
Neiman Marcus
Nordstrom
Saks Fifth Avenue
Saks Fifth Avenue Men's Store
Wilkes Bashford

I separated the Men's stores that are freestanding locations.

Wilkes Bashford is smaller but it is SFs original answer to Barneys.

As an aside, apart from the Wilkes Bashford, all of those stores are not native to San Francisco, though Macy's has been there for generations. I miss The Emporium and I. Magnin department stores.

In Los Angeles, the only department store operating downtown is a Macy's, which used to be The Broadway, an old LA department store (but the building itself is from the 1970s). The May Company, Robinson's, Bullock's... all of the old LA department stores are gone.

[esquire]

Thank you for the rundown, Steely Dan. I believe St. Paul MN is also on the list of downtowns with no department stores as Macy's is either closed, or about to.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it blows me away that there are cities with millions of people in them like Cleveland without a Macy's store (or something like it) in the downtown area...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Emprise du Lion

There's a tiny Carson's next to Union Station as well.

yeah. i deemed that one too small to truly count as a "traditional downtown department store".

Originally Posted by esquire

I believe St. Paul MN is also on the list of downtowns with no department stores as Macy's is either closed, or about to.

yes, st. paul would also be in the "none" group.

Originally Posted by esquire

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it blows me away that there are cities with millions of people in them like Cleveland without a Macy's store (or something like it) in the downtown area...

macy's (and the other department stores) simply followed the disposable income crowd out to the burbs and gave them the convenience of acres upon acres of free parking.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

In Los Angeles, the only department store operating downtown is a Macy's, which used to be The Broadway, an old LA department store (but the building itself is from the 1970s). The May Company, Robinson's, Bullock's... all of the old LA department stores are gone.

That's happened a lot of places, sadly. Just ask anyone from Chicago how they feel about the loss of Marshall Field's. Expect immediate condemnation of Macy's.

Originally Posted by esquire

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it blows me away that there are cities with millions of people in them like Cleveland without a Macy's store (or something like it) in the downtown area...

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

macy's (and the other department stores) simply followed the disposal income crowd out to the burbs and gave them the convenience of acres upon acres of free parking.

You've hit the nail on the head, Steely Dan. That's why, to esquire's point, I think the only remaining department store in the entire city of St. Louis might be a JC Penney at this point. That's it. Saks, Neiman, Nordstrom, Dillard's, Macy's, and even Sears are all out in the suburbs these days.

[DecoJim]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

The last five don't have any department stores downtown? I'm shocked.

Does the Family Dollar at 3411 Grand River Ave, Detroit count?

Seriously it is a sad situation. I am sure all of these five cities HAD department stores.

For example Detroit:
1. Sears (Highland Park store closed, 1992)
2. Hudson's (giant 2.1 million sq.ft. downtown store closed 1984; suburban stores are now Macy's)
3. Saks Fifth Avenue (closed New Center store 1978; moved to Dearborn)
4. Crowley's (downtown store closed 1977)
5. Kern's (downtown store closed 1959; company gone 3 years later)
6. Mabley and Co. (entire company closed 1929)
7. Newcomb, Endicott & Company (absorbed by Hudson's; 1927)
(list is probably not complete)

The Detroit metro area has "Department stores" at the various suburban malls; For example 8 miles north in Troy, MI, the "Somerset Collection" has a Macy's, Saks 5th Ave, Nieman Marcus, and Nordstrom's.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by esquire

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it blows me away that there are cities with millions of people in them like Cleveland without a Macy's store (or something like it) in the downtown area...

There are actually relatively few American big cities with a department store in the downtown area. It's the exception, rather than the norm.

And outside of 3 or 4 cities, there's a good chance if department store(s) exist, they're largely kept alive because of subsidy packages. Department stores in places like Cincy, Indy and Pittsburgh exist because of govt. intervention.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by fflint

Downtown Sacramento draws 100,000 government workers on an average workday, many of them by rail and bus. It's an easy walk to Macy's for most of them, although (unsurprisingly) there is a parking garage as well.


There were once two different Macy's downtown, and one of them closed to make room for the new basketball arena. The remaining one is profitable enough that Macy's held on to the property despite being offered a lot of money by the same arena developers.


Isn't Gump's technically a department store as well?

Yeah, I wish they were as serious about apparel as they are about home decor and table settings/ flatware-I'd never shop anywhere else.

Lol

Downtown San Francisco:
Barneys New York
Barneys New York Men's Store( coming soon)
Bloomingdales
Gump's
Macy's
Macy's Men's Store
Neiman Marcus
Nordstrom
Saks Fifth Avenue
Saks Fifth Avenue Men's Store
Wilkes Bashford

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There are actually relatively few American big cities with a department store in the downtown area. It's the exception, rather than the norm.

And outside of 3 or 4 cities, there's a good chance if department store(s) exist, they're largely kept alive because of subsidy packages. Department stores in places like Cincy, Indy and Pittsburgh exist because of govt. intervention.

So it really seems that in a few years, the only US cities with downtown department stores will be the big coastal ones + Chicago, with relatively large numbers of high earners and free spending tourists keeping them afloat.

I'm not sure I feel badly about the disappearance of the department stores as such (the fate of Macy's does not really concern me one way or the other), so much as I do the elimination of retail business from so many downtowns. It's a bit sad to think that even in larger cities you would have a hard time finding a decent selection of housewares or men's suits. Downtowns are so much duller when they're all about office workers with a side order of students.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not sure I feel badly about the disappearance of the department stores as such (the fate of Macy's does not really concern me one way or the other), so much as I do the elimination of retail business from so many downtowns.

I agree with you, especially about the fate of Macy's.

Macy's entered the southern California retail scene around the mid-1990s; back then, to me, Macy's was something you only saw in the SF Bay Area, and was something from the east coast. I resented seeing LA's own department stores being renamed as Macy's everywhere in SoCal at the time, and for many years, I still referred to the re-named Macy's in Pasadena as Bullock's.

[Steely Dan]

going through the larger southern cities:

Miami:
- macy's


Dallas:
- nieman marcus


San Antonio:
- macy's


New Orleans:
- saks fifth avenue




Houston:
none


Austin:
none


Forth Worth:
none


Memphis:
none


Nashville:
none


Louisville:
none


Birmingham:
none


Atlanta:
none


Charlotte:
none


Jacksonville:
none


Orlando:
none


Tampa:
none

[dollaztx]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

going through the larger southern cities:
Dallas:
none

Dallas has a Neiman Marcus. The 1st one actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neiman...p_store_01.jpg

[antinimby]

Apparently Americans like their department stores at the mall, not downtown.

[Steely Dan]

here's the west:


San Francisco:
- barneys
- bloomingdale
- gump's
- macy's
- neiman marcus
- nordstrom
- saks fifth avenue
- wilkes bashford


Seattle:
- macy's
- nordstrom


San Diego:
- macy's
- nordstrom


Portland:
- macy's
- nordstrom


Salt Lake City:
- macy's
- nordstrom


Los Angeles:
- macy's


Sacramento:
- macy's




Phoenix:
none


Denver:
none


Las vegas:
none