HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5001  
Old Posted May 13, 2012, 2:41 AM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 23,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
OC Transpo Alerts ‏ @OCTranspoAlerts

Buses are not serving C.E. Centre and remain on Uplands Dr due to high traffic volume. #octranspo

1:34 PM - 12 May 12

--

So... when transit is most needed to cut down on traffic... it's not there because of traffic.

Great planning Ottawa, great "planning".
I have a solution; Rapid Transit to Airport (with station at CE cenre)!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5002  
Old Posted May 13, 2012, 3:50 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,788
oops! Just like water fountains, we forgot to include transit when we planned the CE Centre.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5003  
Old Posted May 13, 2012, 3:49 PM
gjhall's Avatar
gjhall gjhall is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,297
Frankly, when I went to the CE Centre for the Planning Summit, I took the 97, requested to stop at Uplands, and it drops you at the southwest corner of the parking lot. With the landscaping complete and a proper pedestrian path to that stop, I see it as a better solution than a local bus that takes you on a loopdy loop of CFB Ottawa and Hunt Club Road. If they upgraded the stop at Uplands from on-request to a normal stop, that would work out fine for most everyone.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5004  
Old Posted May 13, 2012, 5:47 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjhall View Post
Frankly, when I went to the CE Centre for the Planning Summit, I took the 97, requested to stop at Uplands, and it drops you at the southwest corner of the parking lot. With the landscaping complete and a proper pedestrian path to that stop, I see it as a better solution than a local bus that takes you on a loopdy loop of CFB Ottawa and Hunt Club Road. If they upgraded the stop at Uplands from on-request to a normal stop, that would work out fine for most everyone.
Simply put, they should improve it to a full Transitway station (similar to, say, Jeanne d'Arc) with full amenities, and also improve the pedestrian links over the overpass. All 97 trips should serve that stop in both directions. Voila, you have service every 15 minutes or better most of the day easily accessible!

As a 2-lane rural collector road, Uplands certainly is not designed for the traffic volumes necessary. Short of widening Uplands (while that sounds easy, the Hunt Club intersection really cannot be widened as no room exists for an intersection with an Uplands arterial, unless the intersection is relocated to the west as a 3-way T-intersection and split), transit needs to be seriously encouraged during busy events.

Route 147 COULD be increased, but the fact that it primarily serves the Uplands community (even though ridership is low there) and it runs into traffic, it is best to focus more on the higher frequency major routes and not compromise the local route. By improving the stops and connections, Route 99 could return to the Airport Parkway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5005  
Old Posted May 14, 2012, 2:41 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Simply put, they should improve it to a full Transitway station (similar to, say, Jeanne d'Arc) with full amenities, and also improve the pedestrian links over the overpass. All 97 trips should serve that stop in both directions. Voila, you have service every 15 minutes or better most of the day easily accessible!
I posted this a few weeks back in the CE Centre thread.

The plan (currently under construction) is to build a pedestrian pathway that goes up the embankment to the northbound bus stop on the parkway. Once this is finished, the 97 in both directions will be easily accessible to the Centre.

To me, the real problem is that the CE Centre was allowed to open without first constructing the infrastructure necessary for it to be properly served by transit. It's little surprise there have been traffic issues.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5006  
Old Posted May 15, 2012, 3:04 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
To me, the real problem is that the CE Centre was allowed to open without first constructing the infrastructure necessary for it to be properly served by transit. It's little surprise there have been traffic issues.
Typical Ottawa planning genius.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5007  
Old Posted May 16, 2012, 12:10 PM
OttawaSteve's Avatar
OttawaSteve OttawaSteve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 161
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5008  
Old Posted May 16, 2012, 1:25 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,057
that won't help Manconi with his apparent shyness about being put out front for photographs and interviews
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5009  
Old Posted May 18, 2012, 5:51 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,057
Pretty striking illustration of where you can and can't live by Ottawa's transit system.

Picking up from an earlier conversation about splitting and the variance in service levels between 2/12, it looks to me like the transit network performs waaay better for the West Side than the East Side (Vanier, New Ed, etc). The Transitway, when functioning normally, can get you to a lot of destinations, within a pretty good range, in 30 minutes or less. Otherwise, it appears that one is generally limited to an immediate vicinity that's, arguably, within a radius that an able bodied person could walk in about 45mins. If Transit can barely compete with walking for huge chunks of the inner urban area, that's pretty crumby!

(I found it very interesting that "there be dragons" in all points Vanier from anywhere west of Bronson)

NB, does not include the O-Train (which would make the West Side even disproportionately well served)

H/T to David Reevely http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/...g-transit-map/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5010  
Old Posted May 20, 2012, 4:38 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Picking up from an earlier conversation about splitting and the variance in service levels between 2/12, it looks to me like the transit network performs waaay better for the West Side than the East Side (Vanier, New Ed, etc).
Yip.

And apropos of the "splitting" issue, I noticed while waiting (to transfer, of course) at Dismal Goddamn Rideau Street today, how the going-out-of-service and going-into-service 3/9s and 2/12s compete for space on the street and at the already-overcrowded (buses and passengers) Rideau stops.

A problem that wouldn't exist if the 3 kept running east along the "9" route... just like it used to... and the 12 kept running west along the "2" route... just like the old 2 used to.

The cure, for an intractible problem, is worse than the disease.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5011  
Old Posted May 20, 2012, 3:41 PM
OttawaSteve's Avatar
OttawaSteve OttawaSteve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
the going-out-of-service and going-into-service 3/9s and 2/12s compete for space on the street and at the already-overcrowded (buses and passengers) Rideau stops.
The 3s are actually taking up a lot less space than they used to -- not just on Rideau Street but on a whole lot of other streets as well. The entire route was eliminated in September 2011.

But re: the efficiency of serving the Rideau Street stops, wouldn't there be a trade-off between more actual buses serving the stop and shorter average dwell times?

Think about the relative platform dwell time of:

- two buses in tandem, one that is dropping off a large load as it exits service and one that is boarding a large load as it enters service (e.g. the 2/12 combo at Rideau Centre)

vs.

- one bus discharging a large number of passengers with strollers, etc. while simultaneously trying to board a large number of passengers (e.g. the 7 or 14).

There are variables such as passenger load and bus type, but in my experience it can take a very long time to empty and then fill a westbound or eastbound 7 or 14... often two or three traffic light cycles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5012  
Old Posted May 21, 2012, 2:36 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaSteve View Post
There are variables such as passenger load and bus type, but in my experience it can take a very long time to empty and then fill a westbound or eastbound 7 or 14... often two or three traffic light cycles.
It wouldn't take as long, at least for the 7, if OC Transpo would do what needs to be done on this route most weekdays: run it on articulated machines.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5013  
Old Posted May 21, 2012, 11:54 AM
rakerman rakerman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 748
western LRT

Quote:
The route the city thinks Ottawa’s light-rail system eventually should take through Kitchissippi and Bay wards won’t be put up for public debate until September, Kitchissippi Councillor Katherine Hobbs says.
May 18, 2012
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...923/story.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5014  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:11 AM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Pretty striking illustration of where you can and can't live by Ottawa's transit system.

Picking up from an earlier conversation about splitting and the variance in service levels between 2/12, it looks to me like the transit network performs waaay better for the West Side than the East Side (Vanier, New Ed, etc). The Transitway, when functioning normally, can get you to a lot of destinations, within a pretty good range, in 30 minutes or less. Otherwise, it appears that one is generally limited to an immediate vicinity that's, arguably, within a radius that an able bodied person could walk in about 45mins. If Transit can barely compete with walking for huge chunks of the inner urban area, that's pretty crumby!

(I found it very interesting that "there be dragons" in all points Vanier from anywhere west of Bronson)

NB, does not include the O-Train (which would make the West Side even disproportionately well served)

H/T to David Reevely http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/...g-transit-map/
Last year I moved out of Vanier after 7 years. I can attest to the terrible bus service. I was within walking distance to the 5, 7 and 12. All of them took way too long to get downtown. During the bus strike of '09 my walk to Rideau Centre took 40 minutes. Biking from Vanier to downtown was faster than the bus. I now live in Beacon Hill South and I can get downtown just as fast thanks to the proximity of Blair station.

I'm a believer in a subway line under Rideau/Montreal road. Might help revive the retail and lead to some intensification. That corridor has the potential of being similar to the Wellington West/Richmond corridor that has benefited in part from the proximity of the transitway.

The Eastern leg of the transitway being built parallel to the Queensway is counter productive. Its main benefit is for commuters from Orleans to bypass the traffic gridlock.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5015  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:35 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
Last year I moved out of Vanier after 7 years. I can attest to the terrible bus service. I was within walking distance to the 5, 7 and 12. All of them took way too long to get downtown. During the bus strike of '09 my walk to Rideau Centre took 40 minutes. Biking from Vanier to downtown was faster than the bus. I now live in Beacon Hill South and I can get downtown just as fast thanks to the proximity of Blair station.

I'm a believer in a subway line under Rideau/Montreal road. Might help revive the retail and lead to some intensification. That corridor has the potential of being similar to the Wellington West/Richmond corridor that has benefited in part from the proximity of the transitway.

The Eastern leg of the transitway being built parallel to the Queensway is counter productive. Its main benefit is for commuters from Orleans to bypass the traffic gridlock.
True, but there is no other ROW available that serves as many passengers, as most of the demand for transit from the eastern suburbs lie along the Queensway corridor (i.e. from Blair/174 to downtown). Any corridor along Montreal Road would need to be mostly an underground subway, otherwise there would be major expropriation or reliability issues with an on-street corridor.

The best setup for such would be along Montreal Road/Rideau Street to downtown, then turning south onto Bank Street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5016  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 2:36 AM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
True, but there is no other ROW available that serves as many passengers, as most of the demand for transit from the eastern suburbs lie along the Queensway corridor (i.e. from Blair/174 to downtown). Any corridor along Montreal Road would need to be mostly an underground subway, otherwise there would be major expropriation or reliability issues with an on-street corridor.

The best setup for such would be along Montreal Road/Rideau Street to downtown, then turning south onto Bank Street.
I could be wrong but isn't the demand for transit along the Queensway there because that's where the transitway was built? And many stations are near interchanges? It's not like there's much in terms of development surrounding Cyrville and Train. (Trainyards doesn't count since it not accessible from Train.)

But you're right that there aren't any other ROW in the East that wouldn't require digging underground (and it's related costs and fight from NIMBYs). But I doubt Vanier NIMBYs would put up much of a fight against the construction of a subway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5017  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 4:00 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
True, but there is no other ROW available that serves as many passengers, as most of the demand for transit from the eastern suburbs lie along the Queensway corridor (i.e. from Blair/174 to downtown). Any corridor along Montreal Road would need to be mostly an underground subway, otherwise there would be major expropriation or reliability issues with an on-street corridor.
West of St-Laurent, anyway. East of there, you could probably emerge to the surface, if precious car-path space can be sacrificed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5018  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 4:01 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
But you're right that there aren't any other ROW in the East that wouldn't require digging underground (and it's related costs and fight from NIMBYs). But I doubt Vanier NIMBYs would put up much of a fight against the construction of a subway.
Heck, Vanier IMBYs would probably hold a parade! Anything for relief from the bus service that has been cannibalized to make west-enders and suburbanites happy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5019  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 11:17 PM
Cre47's Avatar
Cre47 Cre47 is offline
Awesome!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Orleans, ON
Posts: 1,971
Schedules have been posted and contrary to what was initially announce/proposed, there isn't much changes in Stittsville. Frequencies on the 96 remains the same, just a couple of trips have been added on route 262, though at the expense for the most part on the 163.

Overall, schedule on the 96 on weekdays is a mess, inconsistent intervals during most of the day. So, even with the slight extension to Scotiabank Place on some trips, sounds like the 96 is not really improved.

The service change highlights are not yet posted though.
__________________
"However, the Leafs have not won the Cup since 1967, giving them the longest-active Cup drought in the NHL, and thus are the only Original Six team that has not won the Cup since the 1967 NHL expansion." Favorite phrase on the Toronto Maple Leafs Wikipedia page.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5020  
Old Posted May 31, 2012, 6:26 AM
RTWAP's Avatar
RTWAP RTWAP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Conclusion: downtown west of the canal needs 3 stations, not 2. I agree with the NAC here, but the Rideau Centre should not lose out as a result, and nor should mid-downtown businesses.

The locations should be:

Station 1 - Between Lyon and Bay

Station 2 - Under Bank Street

Station 3 - Between Metcalfe and Elgin

Station east of canal - Rideau Centre at west entrance, also extending into the Byward Market near Dalhousie

I estimate the additional cost would be about $50 million, which could easily be raised by local businesses.
The distance between 2 and 3 would be 1.5 blocks. That's way too short.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:17 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.