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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2014, 6:10 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Then I'm sure you'll be even more disappointed to find out that Lisa MacLeod of the PCs was planning on introducing a bill that's basically the exact same thing. And now MacLeod and Fraser are fighting over whose idea it is. Yep, the two main parties in this province are fighting over who can be a better taxi-industry coddler.
Not disappointed at all, since I wrote off the Ontario Republicans a long time ago.
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 8:07 PM
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MPPs fight the future in the taxi industry

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 6, 2014, Last Updated: December 6, 2014 8:06 AM EST


Two Ottawa MPPs now have bills at Queen’s Park that would help cities crack down on bandit taxis. They insist their bills aren’t about fighting insurgent car-hiring company Uber, though it’s hard to believe them.

When Ottawa South Liberal John Fraser presented his bill on Wednesday, he swore it was about protecting passenger safety. It’s right there in the name, isn’t it? It’s the Protecting Passenger Safety Act, so it must be. Not about Uber.

“Unifor welcomes Uber bill” read a prompt statement from the union local representing Ottawa taxi drivers. They think it’s a bill about Uber. Uber sure thinks it’s a bill about Uber.

Nepean-Carleton Progressive Conservative Lisa MacLeod followed on Thursday with a bill that does almost the same thing, the Bandit Cab Safety and Enforcement Act. Both bills crank up the maximum fines on drivers of unlicensed taxis (Fraser’s to $30,000, MacLeod’s to $100,000), allow city enforcers to impound cars, impose driver’s licence suspensions.

“Unsafe bandit taxi cabs predate ride sharing programs like Uber who are using new technology,” reads MacLeod’s explanation of her bill. “Legitimate taxi and ride sharing programs uphold the safety measures within municipal bylaws and the Highway Traffic Act. Municipalities must be able to enforce their own bylaws.”

So, like Fraser, she’s not aiming at Uber. But if she hits it, well, these things happen.

Uber, as a company, operates in a dark-grey area of a city bylaw that regulates both taxi companies and the drivers who work for them. Strictly speaking, Uber provides a smartphone app that connects freelance drivers with willing riders for a small fee, so it’s not a traditional dispatching service in the way the law contemplates.

The drivers pretty plainly run afoul of rules that restrict who can chauffeur passengers for money. With Uber the company, it’s not crystal clear.

Regardless of its exact legal state, though, Uber undermines the purpose of Ottawa’s taxi bylaw. Which is to limit competition among approved drivers so as to guarantee them a reasonable living while meeting city-mandated standards for driver qualifications, vehicles and prices.

As anyone who’s taken a few cabs in the last few years knows, that standard is low. Mainly, the supply-management system in the taxi industry has meant those lucky enough to own taxi plates make a lot of money off the people who actually drive. The system doesn’t work right, but it’s impervious to challenge because the city isn’t issuing more plates.

Anybody who wants to innovate has to work within a system that suppresses innovation.

Uber hasn’t had to care about Ottawa’s system. It operates in 250 cities and just this week raised $1.2 billion in financing, with investments that value the company at $40 billion. That’s more than 10 times the City of Ottawa’s annual budget. It can, if it wants, treat fines like a cost of doing business and keep serving willing customers. As long as those fines are $500, that is. Not $100,000.

Reporters asked Premier Kathleen Wynne about the twin taxi bills this week. One of the premier’s more endearing qualities is she gets really excited about interesting policy problems and you can tell this one grabs her.

“I think this is a fascinating discussion,” she said. “I think we need to talk about it: How does this fit in with our understanding of the regulated taxi industry? I think nobody actually has the answer at this point …. I think it’s great that this issue is coming from all sides of the house.”

The premier is mistaken. The issue she’s talking about isn’t coming from anywhere. What’s coming from both sides of the house is a determination to make sure that issue doesn’t have to be discussed.

Nobody has a proposal for legalizing Uber and its drivers and bringing them under workable regulations, for acknowledging that people who install Uber’s app and summon its drivers aren’t victims but adults making a choice.

Because these are private members’ bills, dissenters are easier to find. Tory MPP Monte McNaughton, for instance, one of MacLeod’s leadership rivals and one of his party’s more fervent free-marketers.

“I just don’t believe that Queen’s Park should be protecting monopolies and defending monopolies,” McNaughton said in an interview. “Companies change, the way companies need to do business needs to change, and with Uber in particular, other companies need to adapt.”

Not if his colleagues can help it.

dreevely@ottawacitizen.com
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-taxi-industry
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2014, 11:28 PM
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I suppose it's far to much to ask the City why there are no issues with Operation Red Nose...

http://rednoseottawa.com/

... but Uber is somehow verboten

Any ideas?
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2014, 11:52 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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I suppose it's far to much to ask the City why there are no issues with Operation Red Nose...

http://rednoseottawa.com/

... but Uber is somehow verboten

Any ideas?
Perhaps because one is a charitable endeavour that doesn't violate drivers' auto insurance provisions while the other is a big corporate endeavour that evades regulatory requirements?
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2014, 12:48 AM
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Perhaps because one is a charitable endeavour that doesn't violate drivers' auto insurance provisions while the other is a big corporate endeavour that evades regulatory requirements?
Well I certainly don't want to put a damper on the holiday spirit.. and certainly do support this service... but just trying to understand the city issue here:

So it's ok to order a ride from a stranger over the phone or internet... the "stranger" expects a "charitable donation" roughly equivalent to cab fare.

The stranger/drivers insurance company is ok with this.
The city's regulatory requirements are ok with this.

What if "Operation Red Nose" was expanded to year round? It's not just this time of year that the service could be useful...

fine lines... grey areas... ..rapidly approaching...

.... now back to everyones regularly scheduled holidays...
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 3:46 AM
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Uber continues to expand, adds Gatineau to service areas

Vito Pilieci, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 10, 2015, Last Updated: March 10, 2015 7:06 PM EDT


Controversial web-based taxi service Uber confirmed Tuesday that it has quietly started offering rides in Gatineau, even though the service has been declared illegal in the province of Quebec.

A spokesman for Uber, which is involved in several lawsuits with various cities and provinces, said the company has started offering rides in Gatineau at the request of passengers who want to be picked up in that city and dropped off in Ottawa.

“As of last Friday we began conducting a trial where a group of existing Ottawan driver partners can pick up Uber ride requests in Gatineau,” said Xavier Van Chau, a spokesman for Uber Canada. “This undertaking will help facilitate riders returning to Ottawa from Gatineau.”

Uber has been fighting the provincial government in Quebec, which regulates the province’s taxi industry, ever since it started offering services in Montreal last year.

The company is also in battles with municipal governments in Ottawa and Toronto, among many other jurisdictions where it offers its “ride-sharing” service over the legality of its offerings.

Ian Crevier, Outaouais spokesman for Contrôle Routiers Québec, the province’s traffic law agency, said Uber’s services amount to unlicensed taxi cabs and the province is preparing to deal with the situation, although he did not reveal specifics.

Crevier also said that technically no taxis from Ontario are supposed to cross the border.

“No (Ottawa) taxi drivers are permitted on the Quebec side. However, due to obvious reasons there has to be some tolerance,” he said. “Only legal, licensed taxis are allowed.”

Uber, a U.S. firm operating in 250 cities worldwide and valued at more than $18 billion U.S., insists it’s a technology company, not a taxi company. It offers a smartphone app that connects freelance drivers with people who need a ride for a fee, rather than operating as a traditional taxi service. Therefore, Uber says, taxi laws don’t apply to its business.

In Ottawa, the company’s drivers have faced fines because they are considered to be offering “illegal taxi” services.

In Montreal, the company’s service has sparked protests by cab drivers, who snarled downtown streets in late February.

Quebec’s minister of transportation responded by saying the government was making it easier for municipalities to seize vehicles used as illegal taxis. A seizure can last for up to 30 days. In Montreal, two vehicles believed to be used for transporting Uber passengers have been seized.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-service-areas
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2015, 2:33 AM
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Uber in Ottawa

I wonder if Uber is paying these fines...
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/19/...vers-pay-fines

'Some Ottawa Uber drivers pay fines 7

BY JON WILLING, OTTAWA SUN
FIRST POSTED: THURSDAY, MARCH 19, 2015 03:29 PM EDT | UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 19, 2015 04:17 PM EDT

Some Uber drivers have fessed up to breaking the rules, according to the city.

The city says Trevor Martin and Ephrem Weldehana paid their tickets. Fayaz Al-Wadaan pleaded guilty in court on Tuesday, the city says.

The total value of the tickets for all three drivers was $2,365.

The court has adjourned other Uber cases to March 26.

The drivers were charged with not having the proper taxi permits.

If you’re accepting a fare to drive passengers, you need to pay fees and have the necessary paperwork from the city.

Uber, whose technology enables people to book rides through a smartphone application, doesn’t require its drivers to have taxi licences.

Uber continues to pay the fines for drivers, the company said Thursday.

“In these isolated instances of enforcement, Uber has continued to support its drivers fully, financially and otherwise,” spokesman Xavier Van Chau said in an e-mail.

“As you know, we believe it would be more productive to work together with city officials to develop a new regulatory framework for ride-sharing.”'
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2015, 10:22 AM
Buggys Buggys is offline
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
I wonder if Uber is paying these fines...
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/19/...vers-pay-fines

'Some Ottawa Uber drivers pay fines 7

BY JON WILLING, OTTAWA SUN
FIRST POSTED: THURSDAY, MARCH 19, 2015 03:29 PM EDT | UPDATED: THURSDAY, MARCH 19, 2015 04:17 PM EDT

Some Uber drivers have fessed up to breaking the rules, according to the city.

The city says Trevor Martin and Ephrem Weldehana paid their tickets. Fayaz Al-Wadaan pleaded guilty in court on Tuesday, the city says.

The total value of the tickets for all three drivers was $2,365.

The court has adjourned other Uber cases to March 26.

The drivers were charged with not having the proper taxi permits.

If you’re accepting a fare to drive passengers, you need to pay fees and have the necessary paperwork from the city.

Uber, whose technology enables people to book rides through a smartphone application, doesn’t require its drivers to have taxi licences.

Uber continues to pay the fines for drivers, the company said Thursday.

“In these isolated instances of enforcement, Uber has continued to support its drivers fully, financially and otherwise,” spokesman Xavier Van Chau said in an e-mail.

“As you know, we believe it would be more productive to work together with city officials to develop a new regulatory framework for ride-sharing.”'
Lots of people use carpools right now, especially for intercity travel and getting to/from work. In fact, this practice is being encouraged by the City through park 'n rides?

Of course passengers have to pay the drivers (when have gas, car ownership, and people's time been free).

The only difference seems to be that Uber is a souped up version of Kijiji/Craigslist/paper posters/word of mouth. We might as well consider talking to people as a taxi service, and licence this ancient technology.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2015, 10:24 PM
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Agreed on all fronts. Though technically receiving money for a carpool is part of the underground economy, but I see nothing wrong with it. Taxi drivers are just trying to protect their broken business model - no different than the music industry 15 years ago.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2015, 12:07 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Lots of people use carpools right now, especially for intercity travel and getting to/from work. In fact, this practice is being encouraged by the City through park 'n rides?

Of course passengers have to pay the drivers (when have gas, car ownership, and people's time been free).

The only difference seems to be that Uber is a souped up version of Kijiji/Craigslist/paper posters/word of mouth. We might as well consider talking to people as a taxi service, and licence this ancient technology.
Uber is a taxi service.
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2015, 1:23 AM
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This is all part of the trend towards cheapness in every product and service. The attraction to save money is overwhelming. But this is all leading towards every job becoming a McJob with the few behind these ideas becoming massively wealthy. I see this trend in the company I work for. The spiral to the bottom is escalating. The people who will replace me when I retire will be paid much less and get fewer benefits.
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2015, 1:03 PM
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This is all part of the trend towards cheapness in every product and service. The attraction to save money is overwhelming. But this is all leading towards every job becoming a McJob with the few behind these ideas becoming massively wealthy. I see this trend in the company I work for. The spiral to the bottom is escalating. The people who will replace me when I retire will be paid much less and get fewer benefits.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't current taxi setup generally funnel money to the "wealthy" owners of the licenses... and leave the individual drivers somewhat wanting??

Uber simply allows the drivers to keep the money for themselves... oui?
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 2:42 PM
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't current taxi setup generally funnel money to the "wealthy" owners of the licenses... and leave the individual drivers somewhat wanting??

Uber simply allows the drivers to keep the money for themselves... oui?
Its more of Uber can gurantee income for time worked ($25/hr), convential Taxi service is per fare and after payout to the liscence holder, company and city.
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 3:37 PM
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Actually, the taxi to Uber shift helps the individual workers.

The cost savings for Uber don't stem from cheaper wages for workers, they stem from reduced regulations. In other words it's our governments paying the price not employees.
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 4:01 PM
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Actually, the taxi to Uber shift helps the individual workers.

The cost savings for Uber don't stem from cheaper wages for workers, they stem from reduced regulations. In other words it's our governments paying the price not employees.
This is mostly incorrect. It is the cost of buying a license from another license holder and the subsequent carrying costs of this debt that are the largest cost, not the relatively small annual fee drivers pay the city. Without this cost Uber drivers can benefit from the principal of the sharing economy and work part-time and use the car the rest of the week to go to work or whatever.

The city is fighting it not so much because they will lose revenue but because an active and well financed lobby group has a huge amount to lose. Same concept as the battle over dairy and poultry quotas.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 4:12 PM
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This is mostly incorrect. It is the cost of buying a license from another license holder and the subsequent carrying costs of this debt that are the largest cost, not the relatively small annual fee drivers pay the city. Without this cost Uber drivers can benefit from the principal of the sharing economy and work part-time and use the car the rest of the week to go to work or whatever.

The city is fighting it not so much because they will lose revenue but because an active and well financed lobby group has a huge amount to lose. Same concept as the battle over dairy and poultry quotas.
Ah, so the real wealth transfer here is away from investors buying licenses and towards both front line workers and technology companies.

I approve.
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 4:26 PM
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Uber vs Traditional Cabs comparison article by the Citizen http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...aditional-cabs
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 6:32 PM
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Ah, so the real wealth transfer here is away from investors buying licenses and towards both front line workers and technology companies.

I approve.
Exactly with some benefits flowing also to consumers of course.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 6:40 PM
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Consumers: Win
Innovative tech company: Win
Workers: Win
People sitting on their asses making money from artificial government-created supply restrictions: Lose

I see no problem with this.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2015, 11:41 PM
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Ride-sharing regulations a 'grey zone,' Uber GM says as more drivers plead guilty

Andrew Seymour, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 26, 2015, Last Updated: March 26, 2015 6:37 PM EDT


Two more Uber drivers pleaded guilty in an Ottawa court Thursday to driving unlicensed taxis even as Uber’s general manager for Ontario said he believes regulations around ride-sharing services are a “grey zone” and that Uber’s services aren’t illegal.

Wilmond Celiba and Sedik Said were each fined $400 after reaching plea deals with the city in which a second charge of operating an unlicensed taxi was withdrawn. The two Uber drivers were among eight on the docket at the provincial offences court Thursday. The city withdrew charges entirely against a third driver, Hashim Naziri, because the city bylaw officer didn’t sign the ticket. Five other drivers’ cases were adjourned until April 23.

The drivers fined Thursday are among 25 that the city said it has charged since Uber launched its ride-sharing service in Ottawa in October 2014. Following Thursday’s guilty pleas, 17 drivers had pleaded guilty to 31 charges out of court, agreeing to pay a total of $13,665 in fines.

The court appearances came just as Ian Black, Uber’s general manager in Ontario, finished speaking to an Economic Club of Canada luncheon at the Westin Ottawa hotel.

In an interview, Black said it’s a “good moment” for the City of Ottawa to create ride-sharing regulations for an industry that he estimates will create more than 15,000 job opportunities across Ontario this year.

“It’s right now a grey zone in the regulations and we should be creating regulations around it to embrace that innovation,” said Black. “There is no regulations around it because it is a brand new business model.”

Black said Uber has met with the mayor’s office and most councillors and intends to participate in a review of taxi regulations in Ottawa. He praised the “leadership” of community and protective services committee chair and Coun. Diane Deans and Coun. Riley Brockington “in recognizing the need to update the regulatory framework.”

Black said there is a “consumer demand for better transportation options.”

But Amrik Singh, president of the union representing 1,800 Ottawa taxi drivers, said Black need only attend court to see that what his drivers are doing is wrong.

“One of their guys is speaking right now in one of Ottawa’s major hotels to the Economic Club of Canada, selling his stuff. His partners are here pleading guilty,” said Singh. “What kind of business is this?”

“They are breaking city of Ottawa bylaws. Anybody who comes here to do business has to follow the law,” he said. “Why would you plead guilty in a court if you are not doing something illegal?”

The taxi union is supporting a private member’s bill introduced by Ottawa MPP John Fraser that is seeking to amend the Highway Traffic Act and target unlicensed cab drivers. If passed into law, the bill would increase fines to up to $30,000 and give cities the power to suspend licences and impound cars for 30 days.

Black called the proposed legislation “backward looking” and said he doesn’t believe it has wide support.

“From our point of view, we can say no to ride sharing and that means saying no to thousands of jobs in the city, and say no to more affordable transportation, and say no to better service, or we can try to find progressive ways to regulate and embrace ride sharing,” Black said.

“The bigger story here is the fact that the transportation space is evolving and it is evolving for the better and there is certainly room for taxis and existing transportation options, but there is also room and a demand for new options.”

aseymour@ottawacitizen.com
Twitter.com/andrew_seymour

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...s-plead-guilty
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