Most geographically concentrated ethnic groups

[Capsicum]

There's long been a history of the African diaspora (African-Americans, Afro-Caribbeans, Latin Americans) wanting to identify with an African homeland and the idea of being African. Some may strongly agree but others may strongly disagree with sentiments like these as described in the lyrics of this song, by famous reggae musician Peter Tosh, in the 1970s.

• Video Link


"Don't care where you come from
As long as you're a black man, you're an African
No mind your nationality
You have got the identity of an African"
...

"Cause if you come from Clarendon
(You are an African)
And if you come from Portland
(You are an African)
And if you come from Westmoreland, you're an African"

"'Cause if you come from Trinidad (you are an African)
And if you come from Nassau (you are an African)
And if you come from Cuba, you're an African"

The song gives a shout out to a few other locations, including Brixton, Miami, Canada etc.

[Docere]

George Elliott Clarke on "indigenous" Black identity:

http://speakingmytruth.ca/?page_id=664

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I've always wondered why Quebec city, for the second largest city in Quebec has relatively few recent immigrants (be they from France, or Francophone countries) for a city of it's size.

I mean, I understand why Montreal being the bigger city would obviously be a large draw, just like Toronto draws all the Ontario-bound immigrants, but the size of Quebec city, over a half million with a metro of 800, 000, would normally draw a lot of immigrants if it was a city of that size elsewhere in Canada. Even Gatineau, being smaller seems to have more (Francophone) immigrants though to be fair being part of a metro area shared with Ottawa helps.

The peanut gallery answer to the Quebec City question is that it's simply more racist than other cities. That's what detractors of Quebec in general, detractors of francophones and even detractors of Quebec City the city (who exist in Quebec - especially in Montreal) would offer as an explanation.

I don't know that that's true in any significant way. I mean, the idea that people in Quebec City are so hostile to anyone who is different that even people from France won't move there sounds preposterous.

My hunch is that it's partly because immigration for most of the 20th century in the province of Quebec was very much an anglo-oriented thing in many ways, and the cities that get the most immigrants at the moment are those with the biggest anglo minorities (even if most of the immigrants are no longer anglos). But even if most of the immigrants coming to Montreal, Gatineau and Sherbrooke these days aren't actually anglos, I wonder if there isn't more of a "built it and they will come" type of thing at play in those cities where the support structures and networks (both official and unofficial) aren't more developed and mature because of the 20th century anglo-oriented immigration flows that they handled.

[goldeneyed]

That and I don't think a proper immigration system was in place by the province. These days, there all a lot of recently arrived immigrants in places like Sherbrooke and Trois-Rivières. A lot of refugees are also re-settled in certain regions of Quebec. In Quebec, obviously most immigrants settle in Montreal. I've noticed one big exception to the rule. I think that maybe half of immigrants from Colombia in Quebec settle outside of Montreal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by goldeneyed

That and I don't think a proper immigration system was in place by the province. These days, there all a lot of recently arrived immigrants in places like Sherbrooke and Trois-Rivières. A lot of refugees are also re-settled in certain regions of Quebec. In Quebec, obviously most immigrants settle in Montreal. I've noticed one big exception to the rule. I think that maybe half of immigrants from Colombia in Quebec settle outside of Montreal.

We have a number of them here in Gatineau. I know a few personally via separate channels.

[Docere]

There are 36,040 Sephardic Jews in Canada, a majority (61.7%) live in Montreal. Another 25.7% live in Toronto.

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=3247

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

There are 36,040 Sephardic Jews in Canada, a majority (61.7%) live in Montreal. Another 25.7% live in Toronto.

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=3247

The arrival of the Sephardim en masse was a bit of shock to the system for the established (mostly Ashkenazi) Jewish community in Montreal. They'd been used to functioning almost exclusively in English (at least amongst themselves) for close to 100 years, after the progressive decline of Yiddish. (The smaller Hassidim group retained Yiddish much more, with English as their second language.)

And then all of sudden: French-speaking Jews! OMG! And lots of them!

Sometimes earnestly and sometimes reluctantly, the Jewish community of Montreal ended up bilingualizing large parts of its institutional set-up. This transition was and still is not without tensions between the two groups. Many of the Sephardim are not satisfied with the amount of French, and many of the Ashkenazis often think English and some token French should be sufficient.

[Docere]

Speaking of the Hasidim, there 6,655 people speak Yiddish at home in Quebec, representing 94% of the national figure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

Speaking of the Hasidim, there 6,655 people speak Yiddish at home in Quebec, representing 94% of the national figure.

Basically all of them in a specific part of Outremont and in an enclave in the north shore suburb of Boisbriand.

[Docere]

Yup, 4500 of the 7000 that speak Yiddish at home in Canada are in the riding of Outremont.

[1overcosc]

There may still be small numbers of elderly Jewish-Canadians outside the Hasidic community who speak Yiddish as their first language; however such individuals likely have an extremely high median age.

I actually have a living great-great aunt, aged 97, whose first language is Yiddish. She was born in Canada in 1920 to parents who immigrated from Lithuania in 1914. Her mother (my great-great grandmother) never actually learned English at all and remained a monolingual Yiddish speaker until her death in 1977. Thanks to childhood interaction with her monolingually Yiddish grandmother, my own grandmother (age 78) was at one point capable of speaking Yiddish although she's probably extremely rusty by now.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There may still be small numbers of elderly Jewish-Canadians outside the Hasidic community who speak Yiddish as their first language; however such individuals likely have an extremely high median age.

I actually have a living great-great aunt, aged 97, whose first language is Yiddish. She was born in Canada in 1920 to parents who immigrated from Lithuania in 1914. Her mother (my great-great grandmother) never actually learned English at all and remained a monolingual Yiddish speaker until her death in 1977. Thanks to childhood interaction with her monolingually Yiddish grandmother, my own grandmother (age 78) was at one point capable of speaking Yiddish although she's probably extremely rusty by now.

I think there's still a good number of elderly second generation Canadian Jews who grew up in homes where Yiddish was spoken and have at least some familiarity with Yiddish. But as you say, they are for for the most part very old (i.e. 85+).

Winnipeg's North End was a hotbed of Yiddish socialist culture that held out for decades. I had a professor (born in 1945) who grew up in that milieu and attended a secular Yiddish school. His Who's Who in Canada listing says his spoken languages as "English, French and Yiddish" but obviously isn't counted as a "Yiddish speaker" by Statscan.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The peanut gallery answer to the Quebec City question is that it's simply more racist than other cities. That's what detractors of Quebec in general, detractors of francophones and even detractors of Quebec City the city (who exist in Quebec - especially in Montreal) would offer as an explanation.

I don't know that that's true in any significant way. I mean, the idea that people in Quebec City are so hostile to anyone who is different that even people from France won't move there sounds preposterous.

My hunch is that it's partly because immigration for most of the 20th century in the province of Quebec was very much an anglo-oriented thing in many ways, and the cities that get the most immigrants at the moment are those with the biggest anglo minorities (even if most of the immigrants are no longer anglos). But even if most of the immigrants coming to Montreal, Gatineau and Sherbrooke these days aren't actually anglos, I wonder if there isn't more of a "built it and they will come" type of thing at play in those cities where the support structures and networks (both official and unofficial) aren't more developed and mature because of the 20th century anglo-oriented immigration flows that they handled.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong:

I've always found that there is a big East-West divide in Quebec when it comes to openness to immigrants and even businesses that aren't based in Quebec. That is the feeling I've gotten when travelling there. (I'm not including the far North James Bay or Nunavik regions as they are made up of mainly Indigenous peoples) And I'm not talking about treatment or views of anglophones as that is not what I'm focusing on. I've been treated well in all of the regions I've visited which is all of them in Quebec except Nunavik. My perceptions are from the local people I met and spoke with during many trips about politics, immigration, business, industry, etc..

I wish I had a map to draw on. But to give a rough idea, the dividing line should run from just a bit West of Lac St-Jean down to somewhere between Trois-Rivières and Quebec City then down along where the Eastern Townships meet the Chaudière-Appalaches (Beauce) region.

I've found that Quebecers in the Eastern portion aren't around people of other backgrounds nearly as much and aren't close to large populations of different people like they are in the Western part where they are close to Ontario and the U.S.. The part of Maine that borders that Eastern part has so little population and the portion of New Brunswick bordering there is mainly French-speaking and not intensely different. Only a few places have sizeable anglophone populations but they aren't very big communities to begin with.

Oh I could go on and on...

[Docere]

Another language where there's probably still a good number of (aged) speakers but not many speaking at home anymore: Ukrainian.

It often held out for decades in rural communities in the Prairies. Former Alberta premier Ed Stelmach for instance is a third generation Canadian born in 1950 who grew up speaking Ukrainian.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Speaking of the Hasidim, there 6,655 people speak Yiddish at home in Quebec, representing 94% of the national figure.

Originally Posted by Docere

Yup, 4500 of the 7000 that speak Yiddish at home in Canada are in the riding of Outremont.

Originally Posted by Docere

I think there's still a good number of elderly second generation Canadian Jews who grew up in homes where Yiddish was spoken and have at least some familiarity with Yiddish. But as you say, they are for for the most part very old (i.e. 85+).

Winnipeg's North End was a hotbed of Yiddish socialist culture that held out for decades. I had a professor (born in 1945) who grew up in that milieu and attended a secular Yiddish school. His Who's Who in Canada listing says his spoken languages as "English, French and Yiddish" but obviously isn't counted as a "Yiddish speaker" by Statscan.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There may still be small numbers of elderly Jewish-Canadians outside the Hasidic community who speak Yiddish as their first language; however such individuals likely have an extremely high median age.

I actually have a living great-great aunt, aged 97, whose first language is Yiddish. She was born in Canada in 1920 to parents who immigrated from Lithuania in 1914. Her mother (my great-great grandmother) never actually learned English at all and remained a monolingual Yiddish speaker until her death in 1977. Thanks to childhood interaction with her monolingually Yiddish grandmother, my own grandmother (age 78) was at one point capable of speaking Yiddish although she's probably extremely rusty by now.

Was Ontario ever in earlier decades a more significant percentage of the Yiddish-speaking community of Jewish-Canadians, or was it always centered around Montreal, with somewhere like Toronto always far behind?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The arrival of the Sephardim en masse was a bit of shock to the system for the established (mostly Ashkenazi) Jewish community in Montreal. They'd been used to functioning almost exclusively in English (at least amongst themselves) for close to 100 years, after the progressive decline of Yiddish. (The smaller Hassidim group retained Yiddish much more, with English as their second language.)

And then all of sudden: French-speaking Jews! OMG! And lots of them!

Sometimes earnestly and sometimes reluctantly, the Jewish community of Montreal ended up bilingualizing large parts of its institutional set-up. This transition was and still is not without tensions between the two groups. Many of the Sephardim are not satisfied with the amount of French, and many of the Ashkenazis often think English and some token French should be sufficient.

So did the long-standing Anglophone Ashkenazi community mostly remain in the area after the switch-over between Anglo and French dominance, and their kids eventually assimilate to Francophone culture, or did a lot of them, percentage-wise, move to Ontario or some other part of Anglo Canada?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Was Ontario ever in earlier decades a more significant percentage of the Yiddish-speaking community of Jewish-Canadians, or was it always centered around Montreal, with somewhere like Toronto always far behind?

Yes, Yiddish was the language of virtually all early 20th century Jewish immigrants and 80 or 90 years ago you would have just as likely heard Yiddish spoken on Spadina Avenue as you would have on the Main.

The Yiddish speakers of today are the Hasidim, and the vast majority of them live in Montreal. They immigrated mostly after WWII and their numbers have grown dramatically because of very high birth rates.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So did the long-standing Anglophone Ashkenazi community mostly remain in the area after the switch-over between Anglo and French dominance, and their kids eventually assimilate to Francophone culture, or did a lot of them, percentage-wise, move to Ontario or some other part of Anglo Canada?

There is almost zero assimilation or transfer to French on the part of the long-standing Ashkenazi population of Montreal. Many of them have left but of those who remain, they're still anglophones. Although the younger generations (read = anyone under 50) now almost all speak French as a second language.

Any Ashkenazis you meet in Montreal who are francophones are people who moved to Montreal from France over the past 20-30 years.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Correct me if you think I'm wrong:

I've always found that there is a big East-West divide in Quebec when it comes to openness to immigrants and even businesses that aren't based in Quebec. That is the feeling I've gotten when travelling there. (I'm not including the far North James Bay or Nunavik regions as they are made up of mainly Indigenous peoples) And I'm not talking about treatment or views of anglophones as that is not what I'm focusing on. I've been treated well in all of the regions I've visited which is all of them in Quebec except Nunavik. My perceptions are from the local people I met and spoke with during many trips about politics, immigration, business, industry, etc..

I wish I had a map to draw on. But to give a rough idea, the dividing line should run from just a bit West of Lac St-Jean down to somewhere between Trois-Rivières and Quebec City then down along where the Eastern Townships meet the Chaudière-Appalaches (Beauce) region.

I've found that Quebecers in the Eastern portion aren't around people of other backgrounds nearly as much and aren't close to large populations of different people like they are in the Western part where they are close to Ontario and the U.S.. The part of Maine that borders that Eastern part has so little population and the portion of New Brunswick bordering there is mainly French-speaking and not intensely different. Only a few places have sizeable anglophone populations but they aren't very big communities to begin with.

Oh I could go on and on...

That's an interesting theory. There is definitely something like this to this area as it definitely "buffered" on all sides. Even to the west of it, it's still predominantly francophone enough for some distance to not provide that much of a sharp contrast. (Water cooler talk among francophones in a place like Gatineau is still very similar to what it would be in Rivière-du-Loup, with stuff like sex allegations against Éric Salvail, or the "fake millionaire" glamorous young pharmacist who was involved with a cult...)

And the francophone influence very slowly regresses as you move into NE and E Ontario, as opposed to dropping very sharply off the map.

I certainly know what you mean and have noticed this before, even though I've never associated to the issue of immigration.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is almost zero assimilation or transfer to French on the part of the long-standing Ashkenazi population of Montreal. Many of them have left but of those who remain, they're still anglophones. Although the younger generations (read = anyone under 50) now almost all speak French as a second language.

Any Ashkenazis you meet in Montreal who are francophones are people who moved to Montreal from France over the past 20-30 years.

It seems like the "Ellis Island" period of Anglophone immigrants are the most resistant to the transfer to French. The people who became (or whose families became) Montrealers when demographics resembled the immigrants to Brooklyn (eg. Irish, Italians, Jews) during the heyday of "English Montreal".

Originally Posted by Acajack

And the francophone influence very slowly regresses as you move into NE and E Ontario, as opposed to dropping very sharply off the map.

I certainly know what you mean and have noticed this before, even though I've never associated to the issue of immigration.

Western parts of Quebec are also closer to high-immigration Ontario than low-immigration Atlantic Canada, but that's not language-related (since English-speaking Atlantic Canada also has low immigration, though it's rising), so maybe it's also related to macro-scale immigration patterns on the map of Canada as a whole (Montreal + points west = high immigration parts of Canada, while eastern Quebec + points east, including Atlantic Canada = lower immigration parts of Canada, similarly that also seems like a dividing line where the majority of Canadians have so-called "older" settler ancestry, whether it's Maritimers or Quebecois, versus later immigrants).