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  #1441  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 12:28 AM
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More of downtown being gutted...
Indeed.

If the events centre falls through, expect much more of the same......
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  #1442  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 1:26 PM
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Any word on 55 Queen? They already moved their anticipated opening date to summer 2016 which would mean they need to get started - same thing as last year. I wouldn't think their construction is dependent on the Events Center getting built, but who knows. Last I heard they had sold about 30 units - you can only delay the project for so long before you start losing deposits.
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  #1443  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 1:37 PM
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55 Queen might be in jeopardy. There has been some oblique referencing to this in the local media. I'm sure the developers would be much more comfortable in starting construction if they knew the events centre was a definite go. This would make selling of the remaining units much easier.

I agree, if construction of 55 Queen is delayed much longer, then initial depositors might pull out and then the whole project could collapse.

Yet another reason why the provincial government has to decide on the events centre now, rather than after the next federal election like Dominic wants........
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  #1444  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 2:39 PM
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It's becoming increasingly evident that if the events center funding is delayed any longer the impact on the downtown area will be nothing short of enormous. Looking out 10 years from now, downtown Moncton will look as it does today (or even worse if you consider another decade of decay), or it will almost be unrecognizable with the construction boom the will follow an events center announcement. If you consider the projects - 55 Queen, Downing Street, the corner of Vaughan Harvey & Main, and the Aquilini block - and these are only the projects we know of - it's just way too much investment in our downtown to let go. Here's to hoping that Brian Gallant doesn't let this pass us by.
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  #1445  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 3:50 PM
pierremoncton pierremoncton is offline
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Other downtown projects that I recall having been proposed in the past 3-4 years that are now either dormant or entirely dead:

- office building at Assomption/Vaughan Harvey (empty lot)
- condos/apartments near the Rogers call centre (empty lots)
- mixed-use building at St George/High (empty lot)
- mixed-use building at the old church site on St George (empty lot)
- apartments/condos on Victoria (empty/old homes)
- apartments/condos on Botsford near cultural centre (empty lot)
- conversion to condos of building at St George/Bonaccord (half-renovated, abandoned building)
- Killam apartments at St George/Bonaccord (parking lot)
- second building at Dominion/Gordon (empty lot & parking)
- mixed-use building at Robinson/Gordon (parking lot)
- Harper St offices (empty lot)
- apartment building on Mountain near Subway (empty lot)

Imagine what downtown would already look like had the casino been built there, and then the impact of MHS being relocated to the boonies. So discouraging.
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  #1446  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 4:21 PM
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The "Detroitification" of Moncton is well under way.

The only thing that will prevent complete victory for the dark side is the events centre. This project must go ahead.

Economics is like sports. You can't underestimate the power of momentum. The team (city) with the momentum usually wins. The events centre would build confidence leading to sustained momentum fir downtown development. The critical loss of the events centre will cause a slump resulting in continued depression of the core.

1968 was a critical year for Detroit. It has never recovered from the riots and now it is a "doughnut city" with all developemnt in the periphery. Will 2015 be the critical year for Moncton???

I fear that it will be.........
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  #1447  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pierremoncton View Post
Other downtown projects that I recall having been proposed in the past 3-4 years that are now either dormant or entirely dead:

- office building at Assomption/Vaughan Harvey (empty lot)
- condos/apartments near the Rogers call centre (empty lots)
- mixed-use building at St George/High (empty lot)
- mixed-use building at the old church site on St George (empty lot)
- apartments/condos on Victoria (empty/old homes)
- apartments/condos on Botsford near cultural centre (empty lot)
- conversion to condos of building at St George/Bonaccord (half-renovated, abandoned building)
- Killam apartments at St George/Bonaccord (parking lot)
- second building at Dominion/Gordon (empty lot & parking)
- mixed-use building at Robinson/Gordon (parking lot)
- Harper St offices (empty lot)
- apartment building on Mountain near Subway (empty lot)

Imagine what downtown would already look like had the casino been built there, and then the impact of MHS being relocated to the boonies. So discouraging.
Thanks for this list. You tend to forget all the failed projects that have occurred over the years. And these are only the ones we know about! Failed projects are not advertised so there are likely much more. The amount of downsized or killed projects in this city's core is truly staggering.

Another major project to add to your list is the 10 story condo tower on East Main. It initially had a striking glass wall circular design, later downsized to a commie block, later downsized to 6-8 stories, then 4, then killed.

If only the projects that we know about were built, downtown would already be unrecognizable.
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  #1448  
Old Posted May 1, 2015, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


The "Detroitification" of Moncton is well under way.

The only thing that will prevent complete victory for the dark side is the events centre. This project must go ahead.

Economics is like sports. You can't underestimate the power of momentum. The events centre would build confidence leading to sustained momentum fir downtown development. The critical loss of the events centre will cause a slump resulting in continued depression of the core.

1968 was a critical year for Detroit. It has never recovered from the riots and now it is a "doughnut city" with all developemnt in the periphery. Will 2015 be the critical year for Moncton???

I fear that it will be.........
I agree. Moncton, much like Detroit, suffers from racial tension and freeway construction that exacerbates those issues. The city's industry is failing completely and everything is falling apart.

/s

Get it together people, it's not the end of the world.
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  #1449  
Old Posted May 2, 2015, 2:44 PM
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Get it together people, it's not the end of the world.
No, it's not the end of the world, but there is no denying that 2015 constitutes a major defining point in the history of the city.

If the events centre does not get built, then Moncton will continue on much as it has in the past. It will remain a prosperous regional services centre for the central portion of the Maritime provinces, and likely will stay as one of the 3-4 cities in the region that continues to grow (as the rest of the region decays and withers). It will pass population thresholds of 150K, 175K and possibly 200K. It will remain the second largest CMA in the Maritimes. In other words - life goes on.

But what type of city will it be? For most of the time of the "Moncton Miracle", growth has been in the suburbs, business parks and power centres. The downtown core has seen little or no growth and only a minority of citizens actually lives in the core. Aside from the restaurant and bar district on Main Street and the Capitol Theatre, there is little reason for people to visit the downtown (except for work and business related activities). Many people (myself included) virtually never visit the downtown. This is kind of sad.

Monctonians have to decide how important the downtown is to the city. I suppose that you could argue "not much", but most times that you visit another city, you head to the downtown. Most visitors to downtown Moncton I imagine are at least somewhat disappointed. If you read travel guide commentaries on Moncton, they tend to ignore the downtown, or offer vague patronizing comments. Meanwhile, these travel writers tend to be effusive in their praise over our sister cities like Saint John, Fredericton, Halifax and Charlottetown. I find this frustrating. We can do better. It's one thing to be prosperous, it's quite another to be admired and loved. Those are emotions you don't hear too ofter from visitors to our fair city.

Sad as it is, it's probably time to think of a back-up plan for the Highfield Square site if the events centre doesn't get built. The odds of the events centre getting built are getting long and are probably now less than 50/50.

One of the callers in to the CBC during the debate on the events centre last week suggested that it be turned into a park. It's easy to scoff at this suggestion, and judging from the quaver in her voice, she was probably in her 70's and was probably looking for another good place to feed the pigeons from, but there is some merit to this suggestion.

There formerly was some parkland in this area, especially in the old Bay parking lot. Looking at old photos of the area, it was quite nice and in the present day would have an interesting "high rise" backdrop with the federal office complex and the Crowne Plaza Hotel in the background. The adjacent CN mainline would also provide some interest. It could be done nicely, perhaps becoming Moncton's version of the Public Gardens in Halifax. There would be a cost to this, and there would be no generation of income from property tax collection, but the idea is not without merit.


Vintage Moncton photo

One reason why I might support this is that it might decrease the way in which development in the downtown core is "strip like" along Main Street. By removing this land from the equation, it might force future downtown development to the east of the subway, and to the lands south of Main Street towards Assomption Blvd. In the long run, this might give Moncton a more traditional compact downtown core with some depth like you see in other cities.

Development between Main and Assomption would take a very long time, especially without the catalyst for growth that the events centre would be, but eventually, in a century or so, the results might be worth it.

My first preference by far is the events centre, because it would enliven the core and would kick start downtown development like nothing else, but we must be prepared to think of alternatives if the events centre dies (as it appears that it will).

Thoughts anyone???
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  #1450  
Old Posted May 2, 2015, 4:57 PM
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But what type of city will it be? For most of the time of the "Moncton Miracle", growth has been in the suburbs, business parks and power centres. The downtown core has seen little or no growth and only a minority of citizens actually lives in the core. Aside from the restaurant and bar district on Main Street and the Capitol Theatre, there is little reason for people to visit the downtown (except for work and business related activities). Many people (myself included) virtually never visit the downtown. This is kind of sad.

Monctonians have to decide how important the downtown is to the city. I suppose that you could argue "not much", but most times that you visit another city, you head to the downtown. Most visitors to downtown Moncton I imagine are at least somewhat disappointed. If you read travel guide commentaries on Moncton, they tend to ignore the downtown, or offer vague patronizing comments. Meanwhile, these travel writers tend to be effusive in their praise over our sister cities like Saint John, Fredericton, Halifax and Charlottetown. I find this frustrating. We can do better. It's one thing to be prosperous, it's quite another to be admired and loved. Those are emotions you don't hear too ofter from visitors to our fair city.
I can certainly understand where you're coming from but I don't think all of that is really Moncton's fault or even things Moncton has much control over. Many people associate the Maritimes with being, well, "maritime" and having coastal scenery and being shaped by things like fishing/whaling, ocean trade trade, and ship building, etc. and Moncton doesn't really have this. In that sense it could almost be a town in Ontario, Manitoba, or Indiana. This can be confusing to outsiders as they're going around taking in all the "maritime" vibes and when they reach Moncton it's all kind of interrupted lol.

Also, with Moncton not being the capital and only being the leading city for a relatively short time, it somewhat lacks the historic cachet and sense of establishment that takes time to develop. In NS or PEI the majority of the major decisions and events that shaped the respective provinces occurred in Halifax or Charlottetown whereas in NB it's spread between Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton.

I'm not sure expecting to be a charismatic tourist center is going to be the easiest goal, but the city has been very successful at attracting visitors by developing things like Magnetic Hill. It could have a busier downtown and less sprawl, but the same can be said for nearly every Maritime centre.

I guess the point is that it's always great to do everything possible to improve a city and make it more interesting, attractive, and sustainable, but its goals and the benchmarks by which it measures success have to be based on its own unique situation and not expect to be the same as its peers.
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  #1451  
Old Posted May 3, 2015, 6:02 AM
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Yes the Casino not being built downtown was a huge mistake. Perhaps had it been built downtown, today we would be looking at the events centre as a catalyst for continued growth and growth in a different part of the downtown.

I would still say there is a good chance it gets built, but the window is closing. If Gallant still is being a mute by mid-summer, that's when I would panic.
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  #1452  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 3:24 AM
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I would still say there is a good chance it gets built, but the window is closing. If Gallant still is being a mute by mid-summer, that's when I would panic.

I would have to Say Gallant and Melanson are playing the politics game with Dominic telling them to hold off in announcing money until after the Fall federal election and that worries me alot on this, One thing that could happen is that Robert Goguen gets defeated and then the city will need to start back to zero on the federal part of the funding.

But I have to agree that the event center would be a nice catalyst in downtown development. And I think also that that clueless Shawn Graham Liberal government to build that casino in the Magnetic Hill area a definite blow to the downtown core.
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  #1453  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 12:14 PM
Mattyyy Mattyyy is offline
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Yes the Casino not being built downtown was a huge mistake. Perhaps had it been built downtown, today we would be looking at the events centre as a catalyst for continued growth and growth in a different part of the downtown.

I would still say there is a good chance it gets built, but the window is closing. If Gallant still is being a mute by mid-summer, that's when I would panic.
I would think if we don't hear anything in the next 2 weeks this project is doomed - or at the least - severely delayed as well as many other projects in the downtown core.
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  #1454  
Old Posted May 4, 2015, 12:37 PM
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Would the Casino work better, or at least as good downtown? It's hard to say; but at least where it is still makes sense. It's in a Touristy area of the city so there are some synergies in play. As far as bone headed moves go, it isn't as bad as MHS is in any case.

As for the Convention Centre, it's obvious that Moncton needs something done and soon. Their current Centre isn't meeting the needs of the city, and IMO is almost as out of place in the city landscape as the new MHS is. (As an outsider coming in, I know when I go to events there, I'm left wondering where the hell I am once I get there.)

Anyone not playing politics or who hasn't realized how much the city (and the province) have grown can see the downtown centre is an important boost for the city and the province. Moncton needs the space for its current and future needs. (You could argue maybe building it out in the Hill area for the synergy, but downtown's been stubbed out for it, and works perfectly fine down there)
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  #1455  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 3:15 AM
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They have started work on the replacement Timmies at the corner of Mountain Rd and Birchmount. There is construction fencing surrounding the property and the existing Timmies is closed and awaiting demolition.

This is the site plan for the new Tim Horton's to be built:

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  #1456  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 1:51 PM
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I still don't think that Driv-Thru is long enough, LOL!
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  #1457  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 12:46 PM
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Something tells me people should start thinking about what to do with the land if the events center falls through. I say this half jokingly but give part of the land to Costco and part to Cineplex for an Imax with an indoor/outdoor amusement park. I know, dreaming, but it would get some people downtown.
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  #1458  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 12:57 PM
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Something tells me people should start thinking about what to do with the land if the events center falls through. I say this half jokingly but give part of the land to Costco and part to Cineplex for an Imax with an indoor/outdoor amusement park. I know, dreaming, but it would get some people downtown.
Can't be a Costco. All Costco stores must be visible from a highway.
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  #1459  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 1:13 PM
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Can't be a Costco. All Costco stores must be visible from a highway.
Ummm Seriously?
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  #1460  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 1:49 PM
Mattyyy Mattyyy is offline
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Ummm Seriously?
I sort of had the same thought on your proposal.
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