The Evolution of Gottingen Street

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not sure of the building, but this store will be the one with huge incidence of shoplifting and theft. There is a reason why this kind of store has avoided that neighborhood.

Keith, you must must have missed your typo before you posted. I'm sure that you meant to say: "There is a reason why this kind of store has decided to invest in that neighborhood." Glad to help out, no need to thank me

[Keith P.]

No Jet, it is a bunch of do-gooders who know nothing about retail using a freebie grant from a misguided charity to let them play storekeeper to the projects. I should start a pool on how long they last.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No Jet, it is a bunch of do-gooders who know nothing about retail using a freebie grant from a misguided charity to let them play storekeeper to the projects. I should start a pool on how long they last.

If the people of the area did not do everything in their power to stop development in their area it would be possible to increase density to a point where it would be profitable for a retail supermarket to open in the area.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

If the people of the area did not do everything in their power to stop development in their area it would be possible to increase density to a point where it would be profitable for a retail supermarket to open in the area.

I don't think that neighbourhood is against development in general, it tends to mostly be a few squeaky wheels who will "do everything in their power to stop development in their area", which is pretty true of most neighbourhoods in Halifax. I would argue that the Hydrostone, Schmidtville, Quinpool areas and most of Dartmouth are no more development-friendly (in terms of attitude) than Gottingen.

The fact that this supermarket will be a community co-op (retail inexperience notwithstanding) does not necessarily make it "lesser" than Sobeys or Superstore. In many ways it might be better than a large retail chain.

[someone123]

The worst full-scale grocery store around here is Safeway, and they are a huge American chain. Pete's on the other hand is great.

I agree about the squeaky wheels. They also get too much attention in the media, creating a very distorted impression of how "the neighbourhood" feels. When Gladstone Ridge was approved there was one couple in one house that was against it and appealed to the NSUARB. There were repeated articles about opposition in the neighbourhood but the only people quoted were in this one house, presumably because they were the only ones out there trying to spin the story as a controversy.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No Jet, it is a bunch of do-gooders who know nothing about retail using a freebie grant from a misguided charity to let them play storekeeper to the projects. I should start a pool on how long they last.

You are so wrong about that Keith. Some of the people involved have extensive and successful experience in retail and business.
http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/audio/ca...orth-end/14634

[coolmillion]

The demographics of the neighbourhood have changed drastically in the last decade. Many rooming houses have converted to flats and single family homes (one on Falkland was renting rooms for 300 dollars a few months ago and now looks like it could sell for half a million), new developments (Glubes, Theatre Lofts, Falkland and Gottingen, Brick Yard, Spice), plus older apartments around Brunswick (not sure if these were built after Sobey's left) that have large student populations, plus many more on the way. People are happy to perpetuate a stigma about Gottingen (lock the car doors! don't go near there at night! look at all those poor, drug-addled thieves!) based on the presence of low-income housing, a few crack houses spread out over a square km, and services for marginalized communities, which are part of but not representative of the neighbourhood as a whole. Many people that live around Gottingen (new residents and old, well off and poor) would be happy to have some basic groceries closer than Quinpool or Young Street. As for theft - that's a reality for all retailers and will probably be much less significant for a co-op designed to serve the community than a big faceless corporation.

[JET]

there was theft before the last large grocery store left Gottingen; it was perpetrated by the store a few days before the end of month cheques came out, when the prices in the store were jacked up

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by someone123

The worst full-scale grocery store around here is Safeway, and they are a huge American chain. Pete's on the other hand is great.

I had no idea that Safeway was an American chain; they are so common here in BC that I assumed they were based somewhere in Western Canada. SaveOnFoods is a BC company though, right?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by JET

You are so wrong about that Keith. Some of the people involved have extensive and successful experience in retail and business.
http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/audio/ca...orth-end/14634

I really look forward to seeing how this turns out. It would be nice if more small-scale co-op/market/independant grocery stores opened to fill the niche of the "urban format" grocery, and these types generally tend to favour local produce, which is good for the region as a whole.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by coolmillion

The demographics of the neighbourhood have changed drastically in the last decade. Many rooming houses have converted to flats and single family homes (one on Falkland was renting rooms for 300 dollars a few months ago and now looks like it could sell for half a million), new developments (Glubes, Theatre Lofts, Falkland and Gottingen, Brick Yard, Spice), plus older apartments around Brunswick (not sure if these were built after Sobey's left) that have large student populations, plus many more on the way. People are happy to perpetuate a stigma about Gottingen (lock the car doors! don't go near there at night! look at all those poor, drug-addled thieves!) based on the presence of low-income housing, a few crack houses spread out over a square km, and services for marginalized communities, which are part of but not representative of the neighbourhood as a whole.

Yep. Anyone who's doom-and-gloom about the neighbourhood could take a look at Global's nifty summary of last year's census. The North End (and most of the peninsula) is gaining, rather than losing population, and at a faster rate than the HRM as a whole. (Click on "Change in population, 2006-2011." And to see a pretty dramatic illustration of where young people are moving to, click "Change in median age, 2006-2011").

(The greatest growth, unfortunately, is still in the Tantallon/Hammons Plains area, but hey, hype about downtown aside, the greatest growth in the GTA is in suburban Burlington, so at least we have company in our sprawl.)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I had no idea that Safeway was an American chain; they are so common here in BC that I assumed they were based somewhere in Western Canada. SaveOnFoods is a BC company though, right?

Yeah, Save-On (plus Pricesmart, Urban Fare, and Overwaitea -- all part of Pattison Group, along with a bunch of advertising, car dealerships, real estate stuff, etc.) is BC, and around here it is way better than Safeway. The only advantage to Safeway here is that they tend to be open a little later, usually until midnight (even in Vancouver store hours are terrible).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yep. Anyone who's doom-and-gloom about the neighbourhood could take a look at Global's nifty summary of last year's census. The North End (and most of the peninsula) is gaining, rather than losing population, and at a faster rate than the HRM as a whole.

Gottingen still has its problems but I don't know how anybody familiar with the area could walk around there now and not get the impression that it is better off now than it was 10 years ago. Similarly it's hard to imagine how all the new projects happening in the North End could fail to have a positive impact there.

There's a long lag in media coverage and public perception but I am noticing that the attitude toward the downtown and inner city now seems to be more closely reflecting the reality on the ground. There was a long, frustrating period of steady construction and improvement and tone deaf Detroit-style commentary about decline and "revitalization" (i.e. vague planning voodoo). Hopefully in the future there will be more sane discussion of actual things, like badly needed streetscaping improvements along Barrington, Hollis, Argyle, and Spring Garden Road.

[halifaxboyns]

Well not just discussion but actually contribution of $ to make it happen! It's one thing to talk about it; but as the saying goes: you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

One issue that HRM is going to face as the population trends reverse and the numbers go up, is the issue of schools. This of course will depend on whether or not families with school aged kids can be attracted back to the peninsula, but if so...loosing school sites would be the worst thing that could happen. It would lead to some major issues. This was part of the reason I wasn't a fan of selling the school off Gottingen Street (I can't remember the name). It's not that I didn't like the idea of providing community services or providing an opportunity for development. My simple worry is that if the trend of the # of school age children reverse quickly, we could end up with more children than schools can accommodate.

But this may also be a precautionary concern.

[JET]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well not just discussion but actually contribution of $ to make it happen! It's one thing to talk about it; but as the saying goes: you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

One issue that HRM is going to face as the population trends reverse and the numbers go up, is the issue of schools. This of course will depend on whether or not families with school aged kids can be attracted back to the peninsula, but if so...loosing school sites would be the worst thing that could happen. It would lead to some major issues. This was part of the reason I wasn't a fan of selling the school off Gottingen Street (I can't remember the name). It's not that I didn't like the idea of providing community services or providing an opportunity for development. My simple worry is that if the trend of the # of school age children reverse quickly, we could end up with more children than schools can accommodate.

But this may also be a precautionary concern.

also an issue in Downtown Dartmouth, less families with school age children. There is a surge in condos/apartments, but a decline in single family dwellings.

[Duff]

Not much has changed on the outside for the past few months, but here is a picture I took of the new Hub on Gottingen yesterday.

[halifaxboyns]

It may not have made progress, but I like the look. Many of the older buildings along the street have hardy plank on them and I like that it tries to incorporate a modern look to that style. Very cool.

[JET]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

It may not have made progress, but I like the look. Many of the older buildings along the street have hardy plank on them and I like that it tries to incorporate a modern look to that style. Very cool.

i keep hoping that the storefront will soon be done; that plywood's been there too long.

[Hali87]

I'm not sure how many of you have seen Gottingen Street lately, but things are really starting to pick up. Edna/Jane's has been open across from the (re-opened) Marquee for a few months, and there are now restaurants in the ground floors of Theatre Lofts and Gottingen/Falkland. The Company House seems to have broadened their customer base and has become a very eclectic live music venue (there seemed to be a lot of hip-hop events late summer/early fall). Menz Bar also seems to be pretty busy (or at least there are people standing outside smoking most nights) as is Charlie's a couple blocks up.

Other businesses such as Plan B and One Block also seem to be doing quite well, and the Global studio is up and running. Also seem to be some more renovations in progress/about to start, and the Glubes Lofts are now multicoloured and looking a lot more North-endy. Basically, the area is turning into a hipsters' paradise, very similar vibes to Commercial Drive in Vancouver based on what I saw of it when I was there. I think that Carrot Co-op will fit the area really well, and it'll be interesting to see what happens with St. Pat's-Alexandra: if the community groups take it over, it'll free up some new storefronts on Gottingen. If they don't then there should be a new building there soonish. Hopefully housing affordability continues to be a priority in the area, or costs are going to skyrocket.

I'll try to get some pictures soon.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Hali87

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I'll try to get some pictures soon.

Please do.

The new Citadel Hotel apartment building should help the southern end of Gottingen Street with more people living in the area.