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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2012, 5:48 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I would think from a code perspective; wood high rises would be a problem because any building over a certain size must be sprinklered. Plus with high rises, you need to sprinkler because fire ladders can only reach so high.

Some a weight perspective, the building would be rather light but I would think the issue of wood rot would be huge (particularly if termites get at it).

Ultimately, cost is what will dictate it and when I say cost I don't just mean materials. I mean the cost to make the building code compliant to pass and be occuiped.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2012, 8:20 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Also, I bet a steel and glass building has a lower "carbon footprint" over the life of its existence...

Wood can be incorporated, but as somebody says not "guidelines".

I bet the viewplanes started as "guidelines". This is how they trick us into buying into stuff.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
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That's how the enviro-crazies work.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2012, 1:27 AM
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Waye Mason Waye Mason is offline
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Facts:

Wood first does not mean wood only, ever.

Wood first does not mean highrises made of wood.

Wood first has been the law in BC since 2008 or 2009.

http://www.jtst.gov.bc.ca/woodfirst/wood-first-act.html

Not sold on it yet, to be honest, need to see the report, but lets inject some facts into the hyperbole.
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2012, 1:30 AM
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I think it doesn't make sense for Halifax to build with wood.

Clapboard might be fine for a subdivision but Halifax is large enough that its municipal buildings are or should be on a scale that's inappropriate for wood.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2012, 1:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
Facts:

Wood first does not mean wood only, ever.

Wood first does not mean highrises made of wood.

Wood first has been the law in BC since 2008 or 2009.

http://www.jtst.gov.bc.ca/woodfirst/wood-first-act.html

Not sold on it yet, to be honest, need to see the report, but lets inject some facts into the hyperbole.
It might - MIGHT - make sense for a region such as BC. It makes zero sense for HRM. The environments are completely different, unless HRM wants to enact a pulpwood first bylaw.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2012, 9:10 AM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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Here's a few examples of modern wood use in BC, just to give an idea of the kinds of things that are possible:


Source


Source


Source

Also some examples from a Halifax-based firm:


Source


Source


Source
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2012, 12:06 PM
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I'm sure that trucking all that wood here from the west coast is hardly "sustainable". Given HRM's shameful track record of deferred maintenance I'm sure it will look wonderful after a few years of neglect.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 1:57 AM
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I'm sure there's at least some local wood that could be used for non-structural features.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 12:09 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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I've been snooping around the internet, and it looks like you don't need huge timbers for taller wood construction - there are plenty of different types of laminated members that are heavy enough to provide appropriate protection from fire. Perhaps the 5 Moes could figure out the technology and open a plant in some impoverished backwater in NS or NB.

http://continuingeducation.construct...hp?L=221&C=960

Also not totally new technology: Morse's Teas building is a heavy timber wood structure.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2012, 12:11 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by eastcoastal View Post
Also not totally new technology: Morse's Teas building is a heavy timber wood structure.
So were wooden ships. Those were phased out a long time ago.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 2:53 AM
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The goofy HRM enviro guy, MacLellan or something like that, was on the CBC News tonight touting this insanity. One look at him and you would never support anything he presents, but whatever... at least the construction associations are coming out against this. Hopefully the majority of council will summarily reject it as just another HRM waste of taxpayer funds.
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 3:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
So were wooden ships. Those were phased out a long time ago.
Wow, who knew. I guess the Bluenose rebuild was pretty trivial then. Just because it's not being done everywhere, it doesn't mean it can't be done.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 11:13 AM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
T... at least the construction associations are coming out against this...
Um, the construction associations? Because they're exciting thinkers?
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hoser111 View Post
Wow, who knew. I guess the Bluenose rebuild was pretty trivial then. Just because it's not being done everywhere, it doesn't mean it can't be done.
Wooden ship replicas for marine museums make nice projects. Just don't expect to utilize them for any commercially useful purpose. The same holds true of buildings.
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by eastcoastal View Post
Um, the construction associations? Because they're exciting thinkers?
Because they know how buildings are best built. Certainly more than Watts or MacLellan do.
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2012, 3:05 PM
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More about the pushback from the trades....

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/bus...ut-wood-policy

Quote:
Implementing a “wood-first” policy could pose public safety risks, says the president of a national construction organization.

Last week, a report submitted by Peter Stickings, Halifax Regional Municipality’s acting director of planning and infrastructure, asked the city’s environment committee to recommend to regional council that it consider a wood-first policy for municipal structures being built or renovated.

The report said wood building materials “have lower energy, water and air quality impacts than alternatives” and would provide a boost to Nova Scotia’s forestry and lumber sectors, which “are mainstays” of the provincial economy.

While those are noteworthy reasons, Paul Hargest, president of the Canadian Concrete Masonry Producers Association, said he is concerned about public safety.

“Certainly, we’re protecting our industry, but we’re trying to protect the consumer,” he said Friday in a telephone interview from Kitchener, Ont.

“I’m not opposed to wood, I mean certainly everything has its application. But if you’re building schools and you’re building nursing homes, especially with more than one storey, you certainly wouldn’t want to have your mother in the second or third storey of a wood structure that’s on fire in the bottom floor.

Wood-first policies exist in several other jurisdictions including Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The British Columbia legislature passed a wood-first law in 2009.

However, the B.C. Chamber of Commerce is seeking an amendment to that legislation because they are opposed to the government legislating “a preference for one building material, in this case wood, by excluding alternative, viable and competitive, made-in-B.C. and or Canada materials, from the B.C. publicly funded construction market.”

Hargest said he is concerned that politicians are “getting involved in how designers should be designing.”

He said they should not be “heavily sponsoring and promoting it” over another, especially when “it’s an inferior material.”

But Coun. Jennifer Watts (Peninsula North), the environment committee’s vice-chairwoman and the person who requested the report, said any wood-first policy would follow National Building Code of Canada guidelines, which limits the use of wood to buildings of four storeys or less.

“It’s very helpful for there to be a healthy debate within the community and to have information offered, but there is nothing that is going proceed that does not follow” the code, she said in an interview.

Should council implement a wood-first policy, it would be used on municipal facilities “where it’s economically feasible and makes sense to do,” she said.

“It’s not necessarily an either-or, but looking for other possibilities and options with a goal of looking at what are some sustainable options that we can begin to consider that we might not have considered, both from an economic viewpoint but also importantly from an environmental viewpoint.”

The line in bold text gets to the core of this. Watts is the one who constantly calls for "human scale" development, which is code for 2 or 3 storey buildings. So if her and her crafty friends like MacLellan can slip this past her council colleagues, there will be another impediment to constructing taller buildings in HRM: council can say that any HRM building that does not meet this policy should not proceed, and therefore we get a bunch of low-rise wooden wonders with our tax dollars. This needs to be stopped dead in its tracks. It's OK for Mulgrave or one of the other small burgs in NS to have such a policy because it doesn't matter in those places. It does matter here.
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2012, 4:50 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Because they know how buildings are best built. Certainly more than Watts or MacLellan do.
I don't know about "best" built... probably more apt to say they know how buildings are most commonly built in a restricted geographic area.

I don't think Jennifer Watts should be an authority on how buildings should be built either.
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  #40  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2012, 4:51 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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Wood structural systems that are made of wood (engineered or otherwise) that is thick enough provide more strength than steel in a fire situation.
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