900 Albert St | 234/203/105m | 65/56/23fl | Approved

[Pixel1]

Originally Posted by acottawa

My point is there are no buildings of this size in the "decent and affordable" category.

"Affordable" for whom?

If there are high-end rental units coming onto the market, it means the people who can afford them will move there. It frees up units for renters at the lower end of the affordability scale.

This is just one development, though. It shouldn't be expected to cure all rental issues from every angle for everyone.

We do need more affordable multi-units in the city, and for families too. The pressure in the rental market is for smaller units though... bachelors and one bedrooms. More rental units are needed, period.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Pixel1

Toronto's Aura is 78 floors - kijiji shows 1 BR units for rent around $2100 (larger units go for more). That's comparable to average rents in Ottawa for higher end condos. Check kijiji, there are Ottawa 1 BR condos renting for $2800 to $3200 right now. A 2 BR condo at Lansdowne rents for about $3800. the most expensive condo buildings in Ottawa have owners renting out 2 bedrooms for around $4000 per month.

If you're imagining that these new apartment units are going to be renting for the same price level as a basement room sublet to a student, that isn't going to be the case. Not sure if they'll be as pricey as some other high end buildings already in the city, but they could fetch quite a bit, the demand's evidently there.

Aura is a condo.

[Pixel1]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Aura is a condo.

A lot of condos in Toronto and Ottawa are rented out by the owners. They still "count" as rental stock, and they indicate which way the rental market's moving... similar to the LIV development, which are basically condo-style apartments that rent for condo-level prices. That's simply the high end of the rental market nowadays.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Pixel1

"Affordable" for whom?

If there are high-end rental units coming onto the market, it means the people who can afford them will move there. It frees up units for renters at the lower end of the affordability scale.

This is just one development, though. It shouldn't be expected to cure all rental issues from every angle for everyone.

We do need more affordable multi-units in the city, and for families too. The pressure in the rental market is for smaller units though... bachelors and one bedrooms. More rental units are needed, period.

I was quoting an earlier post. In my own mind I was thinking affording to Millenials who are getting into the housing market later then the previous generation (but the person I was quoting may have had a completely different definition).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Pixel1

A lot of condos in Toronto and Ottawa are rented out by the owners. They still "count" as rental stock, and they indicate which way the rental market's moving... similar to the LIV development, which are basically condo-style apartments that rent for condo-level prices. That's simply the high end of the rental market nowadays.

With a condo the buyers are assuming a lot of the risk (and once the building is registered all of the risk). A "tallest building" condo is prestigious to investors (particularly overseas investors). With a rental building the developer assumes all of the risk. Which probably why there are so few primarily rental tall buildings.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by acottawa

From an international perspective Ottawa doesn't even rank.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...-canada-1609-7

In Canada it is 8th behind Kelowna.

http://dailyhive.com/toronto/average...a-january-2018

You've pointed to a blog post by a person affiliated with one of dozens of such (rental listing) web sites, which is reporting in 1 bedroom median prices. You've then pointed to another article citing the 24 most expensive cities worldwide in which to rent a 2 bedroom apartment.

We also have minimal indication on the methodology used to measure. Is the data focused on central areas or wider geographical areas? What constitutes a city? Is it the same as a region? CMA? Dows square footage factor into the data?

The defacto standard for gauging rental prices is a 2 bedroom apartment. CMHC, a slightly more credible source for such data than a random blogger, reports on this annually. In 2017, average price in Ottawa for 2017 was $1232, ranking 5th in Canada and trending upwards. Montreal, as the closest major centre and for an interesting comparison, is at 782 and was trending downwards.

The international comparison is extremely hard to make since it seems the defacto standard of measure is square footage.

[Pixel1]

Originally Posted by acottawa

With a condo the buyers are assuming a lot of the risk (and once the building is registered all of the risk). A "tallest building" condo is prestigious to investors (particularly overseas investors). With a rental building the developer assumes all of the risk. Which probably why there are so few primarily rental tall buildings.

Condo or purpose-built apartment buildings have different types of "risks" for "investors." I guess if a condo unit owner has a tenant who skips out on the rent, the condo owner might be up the creek. If a condo owner gets a lien on their unit, the rest of the building's owners have assumed part of that risk (or the corp on their behalf). There are condo investors with many units, but there are smaller ones too who only own a couple of units.

Apartment building firms who own and manage a lot of units assume a risk as they're the owners, yes... it's probably a risk that's more spread out for the large companies, though. This city has a few rental firms with multiple highrises around town, and each firm has thousands of units all together, just not with any single building as tall as this development. Anyway, this is to be a mixed-use building with lots of office and retail space planned... that reduces some of the risk too.

I'm not into real estate investment at all, just find it all interesting... the reaction to the added height in this one project has gotten disproportionate (argh) attention compared to what would've happened with shorter skyscrapers with the exact same density. I find that a bit absurd at the end of the day. Anyone could build thousands (or tens of thousands) of housing units outside the greenbelt, and you'd hear hardly a peep about it, either about the "livability" or the aesthetics...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

You've pointed to a blog post by a person affiliated with one of dozens of such (rental listing) web sites, which is reporting in 1 bedroom median prices. You've then pointed to another article citing the 24 most expensive cities worldwide in which to rent a 2 bedroom apartment.

We also have minimal indication on the methodology used to measure. Is the data focused on central areas or wider geographical areas? What constitutes a city? Is it the same as a region? CMA? Dows square footage factor into the data?

The defacto standard for gauging rental prices is a 2 bedroom apartment. CMHC, a slightly more credible source for such data than a random blogger, reports on this annually. In 2017, average price in Ottawa for 2017 was $1232, ranking 5th in Canada and trending upwards. Montreal, as the closest major centre and for an interesting comparison, is at 782 and was trending downwards.

The international comparison is extremely hard to make since it seems the defacto standard of measure is square footage.

I think you're right that statscan is a better source. I was looking for city-level data. Maybe I should have looked harder.

I think you're also right that comparing between jurisdictions is difficult because different factors are considered in different places, although the order of magnitude seems right.

I still think my original assertion is correct though, that rents in Ottawa are much lower than cities that have residential buildings of the scale we're talking about here.

[YOWflier]

Since this topic was recently discussed ...

Rising rents and cutthroat competition: Inside Ottawa's booming rental market

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...market-madness

[daud]

any idea when construction might begin on this project?

[sgera]

Their website says project completion summer, 2020 which suggests construction to start immanently. Given that they’ve already spend $10m moving the sewers with a city funded brownfield subsidy ... must believe it’s near term as city will be eager to recoup the subsidy via property taxes

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by sgera

Their website says project completion summer, 2020 which suggests construction to start immanently. Given that they’ve already spend $10m moving the sewers with a city funded brownfield subsidy ... must believe it’s near term as city will be eager to recoup the subsidy via property taxes

I doubt even the first phase can be completed by summer 2020.

[gatt]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The tallest tower would be the:
22nd tallest in NYC
6th tallest in Philadelphia
2nd tallest in Pittsburgh
4th tallest in Miami
17th tallest in Chicago
5th tallest in Houston
8th tallest in Dallas
3rd tallest in Seattle
5th tallest in San Francisco
4th tallest in Los Angeles
4th tallest in Minneapolis
Tallest in Las Vegas (aside from the Stratosphere Tower)
56th tallest in Dubai
3rd tallest in London
Tallest in Paris
3rd tallest in Frankfurt (and all of Germany)
9th tallest in Tokyo
19th tallest in Shanghai
22nd tallest in Hong Kong
6th tallest in Beijing
13th tallest in Kuala Lumpur
3rd tallest in Mexico City
Tallest in all of Brazil
4th tallest in Sydney
7th tallest in Melbourne
28th tallest in All of Europe
6th tallest in All of India
Tallest in All of Africa
14th tallest in Moscow
87th tallest in All of USA
13th tallest in All of Canada

wow!

[McC]

Originally Posted by sgera

Their website says project completion summer, 2020 which suggests construction to start immanently. Given that they’ve already spend $10m moving the sewers with a city funded brownfield subsidy ... must believe it’s near term as city will be eager to recoup the subsidy via property taxes

I think the subsidy works in the opposite direction, I don’t believe there is a cash payment from the City to recover, there’s no hit on the City’s books. The City just foregoes collecting $X in hypothetical fees fees and taxes that it might have collected from a mythical similar development on a non-brownfield over Y years. And the City doesn’t get decide when construction starts in any event, (it can just decide that construction it can’t yet start).

[waterloowarrior]

I don't think the final by-law has passed, as I believe they still needed to have a Section 37 agreement (density bonuses) signed. If that is the case, someone (MOOSE?) could still appeal.

[alamgirkhan]

The opening date on the website has been updated to summer 2022. That seems more realistic than summer 2020.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by alamgirkhan

The opening date on the website has been updated to summer 2022. That seems more realistic than summer 2020.

I have terminal cancer but I am definitely sticking around for this one. It's funny that I am planning how long I'll stick around by how long Lebreton takes to develop.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I have terminal cancer but I am definitely sticking around for this one. It's funny that I am planning how long I'll stick around by how long Lebreton takes to develop.

Wait, what? You have terminal cancer?

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I have terminal cancer but I am definitely sticking around for this one. It's funny that I am planning how long I'll stick around by how long Lebreton takes to develop.

WTF? We need to have another meet. Maybe at that new place on Flora.

[waterloowarrior]

So sorry to hear that Harley....

The final by-law is going to Council next week, so we should know by early November if there are any appeals
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgvi...doctype=AGENDA