The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

It was kind of like that in the 80s and people didn't seem to mind!

I mean everyone likes different parts of sports so you'll get people on both sides of the scoring thing. My favourite part of slower sports like hockey, rugby and football is the tension and release of scoring. I love basketball too though, but there 3s and dunks kind of fill that space for me as well.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

It's obviously a real, difficult, demanding sport and I think the high scoring is flashy but it lessens the appeal of it to me. Hockey would be worse with 10-8 scores than it is like now with 4-2 scores.

Agree, but as I said the mainstream NA fan following isn't large enough to recognize that and will accept sevens for what it is.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

It was kind of like that in the 80s and people didn't seem to mind!

True about the Oilers but does anybody like an All Star game? I had to cover a game between SMU and SFX back then and the score was something like 10-8 and it was one of the worst things I had seen.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by elly63

There's no denying that, but the NFL should be looking at these issues as should the CFL in the three biggest cities. Is this just a temporary abheration, or will it continue to grow. And while neither league is in any peril, I would sure be concerned and making it a priority as something to try and fix.

It's not so much an issue in a league with 32 teams if a few markets even the large ones see a drop in support. It's still a massive money making machine. The same can't be said for a league with only 9 teams where it's numbers are falling in it's three largest markets. The NFL has much deeper pockets and can handle a drought longer then the CFL can.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by elly63

Agree, but as I said the mainstream NA fan following isn't large enough to recognize that and will accept sevens for what it is.

And that's my point. If sevens is the one that mainstream broadcasters here push harder, it will become the standard, making it even harder for 15s to break through.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Over 80,000 in Lambeau Field to see the Packers- Seahawks game. I'm sure that the Giants - Cowboys, and many more games were well above 50,000 to 60,000, or more in attendance. I don't know why everyone points out the minority of games/teams with attendance issues, rather than the great success that the NFL is.

You're generally right. Attendance at the Cowboys game was over 90,000 I think.

The thing is is that people are used to most NFL games being sold out or near-sellouts. Especially early in the season when anything is possible. It's towards the end of the season when teams are out of the running that you see attendance duds. At least that's the way it used to be.

[JHikka]

Little late to the NFL attendance discussion here but the NFL doesn't rely on gate figures like a lot of other leagues do. It's all in TV and advertising revenue. 60k or 45k doesn't matter much to teams that valuable in a league that valuable. Obviously there's an optics issue when franchises like the 49ers and Bengals have 10-25% of their stadiums empty for season opening kickoffs. LA is....LA, that discussion has been beaten to death.

So much of the aura of the NFL is the event spectacle. Getting together on a Sunday, watching big games in big stadiums, and generally experiencing the pinnacle of sport in the US. Its online presence is massive with fantasy football and punditry and everything else. Having a few empty seats probably doesn't concern NFL HQ that much at this stage financially but certainly doesn't create great optics.

What the numbers coming out of SF and LA tell us is that teams are willing to claim sellout numbers when they're nowhere physically close to being accurate in terms of actual turnout.

Originally Posted by elly63

Also, those rabid MLS fans may be the total extent of their market. They talk about how they don't watch conventional TV and their ratings are abysmal so where does the growth come from without a large TV contract. Where will the money for growth come from?

In the beginning of August MLS signed a new jersey sponsorship deal with Adidas worth $700M over seven seasons. The $100M/year is quadruple the $200M deal signed on 2010 and worth more per season than the NHL recently signed for their jerseys.

That's where the money is, at least today.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Spectacle only really applies to the Super Bowl... regular season games and playoffs are just games... you wouldn't be watching at all if you don't like football or like football and bet.

There's a lot of overlap between people who watch it for the game and people who bet. I used to be in FF pools, but stopped because it got in the way of just enjoying the game. I know a lot of people who watch just for the game itself. I also know a few people who are in football pools but don't actually watch the games because they don't find it interesting. Hard to dedicate so much time to watching football games only because you're in a pool, but don't enjoy the sport. You can do just as well on the pools just by perusing the stats on Monday morning to make your picks.

It used to be like that (highlighted) but not anymore.

These days the NFL is trying more to make each and every game a spectacle. That's why they're spreading the schedule out more throughout the week.

If you've ever been in your average NFL city when there is a regular season game on you'll know what I mean.

Every single game is increasingly a huge event in the city where it's taking place.

BTW, the Ottawa Redblacks have done this on a micro level with their game days, and this is a big part of the team's great success in this area.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW, the Ottawa Redblacks have done this on a micro level with their game days, and this is a big part of the team's great success in this area.

Edmonton as well, they want to make every game an event. They had the Arkells at the last game.

Many teams are coming to the conclusion (including Ottawa) that although the people in attendance may not be watching the game, they are there and hopefully buying into an experience that they will want to repeat.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW, the Ottawa Redblacks have done this on a micro level with their game days, and this is a big part of the team's great success in this area.

Specifically what are they doing because they are certainly doing something right.

[JHikka]

Sept 4-10, 2017
TORONTO/DETROIT................SEPT 8-10...MLB....ROGERS................TORONTO.......38,659 (115,976 TOTAL)
EDMONTON/CALGARY.............SEPT 9........CFL...COMMONWEALTH....EDMONTON.....34,312
WINNIPEG/SASKATCHEWAN.....SEPT 9......CFL.....IGF FIELD.............WINNIPEG........33,134
TORONTO/SAN JOSE...............SEPT 9......MLS.....BMO FIELD.............TORONTO.......29,050
OTTAWA/HAMILTON................SEPT 9......CFL......TD PLACE.............OTTAWA...........24,901

VANCOUVER/SALT LAKE............SEPT 9....MLS....BC PLACE...VANCOUVER....20,783
BC/MONTREAL.........................SEPT 8.....CFL....BC PLACE....VANCOUVER...18,029
TORONTO/BARROW..................SEPT 9.....RFL....LAMPORT....TORONTO........7,972
EDMONTON/NORTH CAROLINA...SEPT 10....NASL....CLARKE....EDMONTON.....3,549

• Jays continue to stay on top - barely;
• TFC second-highest attendance of season;
• REDBLACKS and Blue Bombers sellouts;
• Lowest attendance for a BC Lions game since Week 4, 2002. Week 12, 2016 was also the lowest attendance for the Lions last season (18,107);
• Wolfpack season-high attendance

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It used to be like that (highlighted) but not anymore.

These days the NFL is trying more to make each and every game a spectacle. That's why they're spreading the schedule out more throughout the week.

If you've ever been in your average NFL city when there is a regular season game on you'll know what I mean.

Every single game is increasingly a huge event in the city where it's taking place.

OK, my definition of spectacle is a little different I guess. I think of it more of the trying to make it bigger than the game and hitting audiences outside of football fans - like the Super Bowl does (massive marketing blitz, cross-promotions, half-time stuff, etc).

The way you're stating it makes me think of the games as "events"... which I consider different than spectacle. But you're right though - they're definitely trying to make every game seem special and not just another game.

The NFL has a big advantage over the other major leagues - in that each team only plays 16 games and most of the games are played on one day. Each game feels much more important and meaningful, and you don't have to dedicate a lot of time throughout the week to watch. And because of this it's also much more appealing to watch games that don't have your team playing. As stated, it feels more like an event.

For someone like me who is older and just doesn't put very much importance in sports as I used to - the NFL fits perfectly. I want to follow a sport I enjoy, but don't want to invest a lot of time. Basically once a week (for the most part) for about 5 months of the year.

[esquire]

^ That's a huge part of football's appeal to me... your team plays once a week. It's not a big time commitment. I enjoy hockey but I don't think I could ever be one of those guys who watches their team play 80+ games a year. For the most part I watch snippets of Jets games on TV, a period here, a period there.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That's a huge part of football's appeal to me... your team plays once a week. It's not a big time commitment. I enjoy hockey but I don't think I could ever be one of those guys who watches their team play 80+ games a year. For the most part I watch snippets of Jets games on TV, a period here, a period there.

Yeah I'll definitely watch an entire hockey game if I have nothing else to do, but I won't try and structure my day around (though I don't try all that hard) the way I do with football. Only for playoffs of course, though that hasn't been a problem I've had to deal with for a few years now

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

OK, my definition of spectacle is a little different I guess. I think of it more of the trying to make it bigger than the game and hitting audiences outside of football fans - like the Super Bowl does (massive marketing blitz, cross-promotions, half-time stuff, etc).

The way you're stating it makes me think of the games as "events"... which I consider different than spectacle. But you're right though - they're definitely trying to make every game seem special and not just another game.

The NFL has a big advantage over the other major leagues - in that each team only plays 16 games and most of the games are played on one day. Each game feels much more important and meaningful, and you don't have to dedicate a lot of time throughout the week to watch. And because of this it's also much more appealing to watch games that don't have your team playing. As stated, it feels more like an event.

For someone like me who is older and just doesn't put very much importance in sports as I used to - the NFL fits perfectly. I want to follow a sport I enjoy, but don't want to invest a lot of time. Basically once a week (for the most part) for about 5 months of the year.

I can definitely see that.

If a person has even the slightest interest in gridiron football, the NFL is like crack cocaïne.

It's the most slickly packaged sports entertainemnt product the world has ever seen.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can definitely see that.

If a person has even the slightest interest in gridiron football, the NFL is like crack cocaïne.

It's the most slickly packaged sports entertainment product the world has ever seen.

I always assumed there are some soccer leagues in Europe which eclipses the NFL in this regard. I don't follow, so I really don't know what's going on... I just get the impression they've got a bigger following and more rabid/dedicated fans.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I always assumed there are some soccer leagues in Europe which eclipses the NFL in this regard. I don't follow, so I really don't know what's going on... I just get the impression they've got a bigger following and more rabid/dedicated fans.

Even in the top leagues in Europe it tends to be more low key than the NFL and it's not anywhere close to having fairly balanced levels of fandom across the entire league like the NFL has.

In the English Premier League about half the teams or more draw CFL-type crowds (or sometimes less), but the top three are like the Dallas Cowboys. This is of course due in large part to the relegation-promotion system.

Almost every single NFL club is extremely consistently in the 60-70,000 range in terms of average attendance.

Also, the passion for soccer in Europe is real but it's more a result of a long history than marketing hype. (Not to be judgemental - but it's a fact.)

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's the most slickly packaged sports entertainment product the world has ever seen.

Of that, there is no question.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I just get the impression they've got a bigger following and more rabid/dedicated fans.

For the most part they follow their local teams. Cheering for a team in another country over your own would indeed be strange.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In the English Premier League about half the teams or more draw CFL-type crowds (or sometimes less), but the top three are like the Dallas Cowboys. This is of course due in large part to the relegation-promotion system.

Almost every single NFL club is extremely consistently in the 60-70,000 range in terms of average attendance.

Crowd size is only indicative of so much. If we were going by raw attendance then leagues like the MLB and NHL are ahead of the NFL. Going by average attendance means sports like F1 are at the top. There's a balance between weighting overall appeal and physical revenue at stadiums. Sure, CFL teams might outdraw 25% of EPL teams in any given year, but that doesn't take into account merchandising, TV, and other revenue streams.

TFC currently draws higher than Stoke and Crystal Palace but that has no bearing on them being more popular worldwide or being a better team. There are more variables at play than just crowd sizes. It's a good indication, maybe, but not definitive.