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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by STERNyc View Post
You're forgetting the original WTC, it was pretty big news when it was built...
True, but I mean right now when you drive down the Westside Hwy the ESB stands out like a gigantic exclamation mark, in magnificent isolation from other tall buildings. But if all the different projects - the Brookfield and the Vornado projects, the tower at the Hotel Penn site - get underway and reach their potential heights, the ESB will be literally obscured from sight, save perhaps for its spire, from that viewpoint. THAT would make for a radical change to the "look" of NYC, at least from that side of Manhattan...
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 12:19 PM
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That would be quite a change. For so many years, the Empire State has dominated Midtown. And nothing in the immediate area even comes close. It was the world's tallest for about 4 decades, and is the only former tallest to hold the title of a city's tallest on two seperate occasions.

Yet, the day of the ESB's dominance may be coming to a close.
And the ESB continued to dominate downtown even after the Twins were put up.

It is a stunning testament to the true greatness of the ESB that it was maintained its standout status in the most skyscraper-intense city in the world right thru the 1st decade of the 21st century, nearly 70 years since it was put up.

But it also underscores what an exciting time in NYC's building history this particular era has suddenly - against all expectations, really, when you consider what was being said after 9/11 - turned into.

And it's not just the mega-projects like Vornado's plan for an AOL-type development around MSG, only bigger, either... 8th Avenue is almost casually being transformed into another Avenue of the Americas before our eyes, and Manhattan is overflowing its physical boundaries into Jersey City and Queen. Even Brooklyn will soon have a skyline worthy of many another major city downtown area!
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
True, but I mean right now when you drive down the Westside Hwy the ESB stands out like a gigantic exclamation mark, in magnificent isolation from other tall buildings. But if all the different projects - the Brookfield and the Vornado projects, the tower at the Hotel Penn site - get underway and reach their potential heights, the ESB will be literally obscured from sight, save perhaps for its spire, from that viewpoint. THAT would make for a radical change to the "look" of NYC, at least from that side of Manhattan...
It really depends on the angle. Because those towers are virtually "in line" with the ESB, they really would only block it in the 33rd-30th St range. You would actually see all of the towers from most other places. But we'll just have to wait and see the bulk and heights of the towers.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 1:11 PM
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It really depends on the angle. Because those towers are virtually "in line" with the ESB, they really would only block it in the 33rd-30th St range. You would actually see all of the towers from most other places. But we'll just have to wait and see the bulk and heights of the towers.
Looking at the area in question, it would appear that the Jersey side views of the ESB would be most effected, and that would really be only from right across the river and a little south of there. Middlesex county, NJ/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx views should still be able to see the ESB no matter what the height of the buildings constructed. Although, it just won't stand out as much.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 8:27 PM
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As has been mentioned, the two office towers will have to be quite thin to fit on that site + leave space for 2 residential towers. Tall thin office towers of 1.6 and 2.4 msf? I can dig that.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 9:27 PM
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As has been mentioned, the two office towers will have to be quite thin to fit on that site + leave space for 2 residential towers. Tall thin office towers of 1.6 and 2.4 msf? I can dig that.
Yep!...

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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2007, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thefigman View Post
Looking at the area in question, it would appear that the Jersey side views of the ESB would be most effected, and that would really be only from right across the river and a little south of there. Middlesex county, NJ/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx views should still be able to see the ESB no matter what the height of the buildings constructed. Although, it just won't stand out as much.
That's true. All of the new towers would be south of the ESB...




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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Thefigman
Looking at the area in question, it would appear that the Jersey side views of the ESB would be most effected, and that would really be only from right across the river and a little south of there. Middlesex county, NJ/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx views should still be able to see the ESB no matter what the height of the buildings constructed. Although, it just won't stand out as much.
Hopefully, the overall effect will be of the classic lower Manhattan skyline from the 1930's, of ever steeper towers culminating with the ESB the tallest point in the middle. Or perhaps, with the ESB as a step towards an even taller tower?
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 12:51 AM
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Anyone worried that SOM NY will not be able to pull it off?

Remember this is SOM New York (David Childs), not SOM Chicago.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 3:15 AM
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How soon can we expect renderings?
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
Hopefully, the overall effect will be of the classic lower Manhattan skyline from the 1930's, of ever steeper towers culminating with the ESB the tallest point in the middle.
The ESB won't be in the middle, it would be the farthest to the east. The tallest towers should go on the MSG site as far as the skyline is concerned. But who knows...
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Eigenwelt View Post
How soon can we expect renderings?
Possibly soon...

Quote:
They hope to kick off marketing the northern office tower of 1.6 million square feet within the next few weeks, for delivery in late 2010. That process will begin with the sharing of new renderings now being prepared by Skidmore Owings Merrill.
That's the first Brookfield tower. Hopefully those renderings will be made public. Word is that Related/Vornado's MSG proposal will be revealed sometime in April. Maybe they'll unveil plans for the Hotel Penn tower as well.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2007, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Possibly soon...



That's the first Brookfield tower. Hopefully those renderings will be made public. Word is that Related/Vornado's MSG proposal will be revealed sometime in April. Maybe they'll unveil plans for the Hotel Penn tower as well.
How tall do you think these two bad boys will be NYguy? I think the 2.4 msf tower will be around 350 meters.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BINARY SYSTEM View Post
How tall do you think these two bad boys will be NYguy? I think the 2.4 msf tower will be around 350 meters.
Don't know. The first tower could go anywhere from 750 to 850 ft. The second, perhaps 900 to 1200 ft. Possibly more. A lot depends on the massing.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 5:24 AM
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This project has a lot of potential. I look foward to seeing how it progressed.

Certainly, and opportunity like this doesn't come along very often!
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 11:49 AM
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Certainly, and opportunity like this doesn't come along very often!
Nope. And certainly not within a block of an even larger, similar development. Good times...
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Anyone worried that SOM NY will not be able to pull it off?
Remember this is SOM New York (David Childs), not SOM Chicago.
Check the MSG thread for an interview with Childs on his other work in the area...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=119637&page=5
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 12:58 PM
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APRIL 8, 2007

Quick glimpse of the rails to be covered by this huge development...










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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2007, 7:12 PM
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More specifics, pages 57-58
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/hyar...nformation.pdf

Site 729A
Northwest corner of Ninth Avenue and West 31st Street

Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No

Design Controls: sidewalk widening, ground floor retail and transparency,
street trees, required street wall, required publicly-accessible through-block
passageway
Parking Requirement: approximately 822 spaces

Height Limits: None
Total Lot Area (SF): 128,600
Max. FAR: 19.0
Max. ZFA (SF): 2,443,400

Site Attributes: Convenient access to future mass transit and Midtown;
accommodates large floor plate commercial uses

Site Challenges: Construction of a platform over existing and proposed
below-grade railroad tracks and right-of-way; Below-grade parking
requirement


Site 729B
Southeast corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street

Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No

Design Controls: sidewalk widening, ground floor retail and transparency,
street trees, required street wall, required public plaza
Parking Requirement: approximately 516 spaces

Height Limits: None
Total Lot Area (SF): 80,729
Max. FAR: 19.0
Max. ZFA (SF): 1,533,851

Site Attributes: Convenient access to future mass transit and Midtown;
accommodates large floor plate commercial uses

Site Challenges: Construction of a platform over below-grade railroad
tracks and right-of-way; Site geometry; Below-grade parking requirement
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 6:31 PM
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Another look at the open site...




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