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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2007, 10:27 PM
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Ok, I see what they are doing now: Marketing each tower one by one.
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Ok, I see what they are doing now: Marketing each tower one by one.
With the targeted completion dates, its a competition on landing tenants to see who gets started first. I believe the Hotel Penn tower will likely be the first to get underway though.
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2007, 11:01 PM
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With the targeted completion dates, its a competition on landing tenants to see who gets started first. I believe the Hotel Penn tower will likely be the first to get underway though.
I would agree. The dismantlment of a low-rise hotel will take a shorter time than a large scale arena. I am curious to see how fast the Hotel Penn comes down. What with deadlines and all, this should move pretty quickly once the demolition gets rolling.
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2007, 11:05 PM
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I would agree. The dismantlment of a low-rise hotel will take a shorter time than a large scale arena. I am curious to see how fast the Hotel Penn comes down. What with deadlines and all, this should move pretty quickly once the demolition gets rolling.
The Hotel Penn site appears to be the one most likely to land the first tenant, primarily because its been said to be the site that can begin construction fastest. However, with Vornado involved, I wonder how much of that depends on where the 4.5 msf of space from the MSG site could be moved. If approved, potentially one of those sites could get underway sooner. But I believe the Hotel Penn site is way ahead of the game as far as marketing goes. At the very least, Vornado has options...
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2007, 11:18 PM
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The Hotel Penn site appears to be the one most likely to land the first tenant, primarily because its been said to be the site that can begin construction fastest. However, with Vornado involved, I wonder how much of that depends on where the 4.5 msf of space from the MSG site could be moved. If approved, potentially one of those sites could get underway sooner. But I believe the Hotel Penn site is way ahead of the game as far as marketing goes. At the very least, Vornado has options...
Well unlike MSG, we have seen a render or two of the Hotel Penn tower. Vornado has had this building in the works for a while now. I have seen various renders and read various articles explaining how they want to execute the deal. Out of all the developments this one seems the most on track.

MSG might look (as you said) to compete with the construction start of Penn, but the difference is, Penn knows the location to build as MSG no longer does. That in my book puts them ahead of the game.
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2007, 11:49 AM
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Well unlike MSG, we have seen a render or two of the Hotel Penn tower. Vornado has had this building in the works for a while now. I have seen various renders and read various articles explaining how they want to execute the deal. Out of all the developments this one seems the most on track.
Yeah, the older rendering was for a smaller tower. As you can see in the Hotel Penn thread, it's just a matter of finishing the signing.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 1:22 AM
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Yes, "green" features are what the newest commercial towers are all about these days. However, there's no special approval needed for construction. Zoning is already in place for what's planned.
Green buildings also give the developers an excuse to jack the prices above standard, making green developments even more lucrative.
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 2:07 AM
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Are they really more lucrative though? Does it not cost the developer nearly the difference to make the tower 'green'? Although im sure the developers are not losing money making buildings green, I doubt it is a huge money maker.
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2007, 2:19 AM
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Are they really more lucrative though? Does it not cost the developer nearly the difference to make the tower 'green'? Although im sure the developers are not losing money making buildings green, I doubt it is a huge money maker.
Green buildings are whats "now' in development. So yes, they are big money makers.
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2007, 10:20 PM
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Are they really more lucrative though? Does it not cost the developer nearly the difference to make the tower 'green'? Although im sure the developers are not losing money making buildings green, I doubt it is a huge money maker.
It is a large factor these days in signing tenants though.

http://federaltimes.com/index.php?S=2998553

Building green doesn’t cost more, report says

By TIM KAUFFMAN
August 28, 2007

Despite popular notions to the contrary, experts say environmentally conscious facilities don’t take more money to build than traditional buildings.
Green building does require a different mind-set, however. Sustainable features too often are tacked on to a project as an afterthought, making them appear as an added cost that can be easily cut, according to a July report by Davis Langdon, a San Francisco-based consulting business that helps architects and building owners manage construction costs.

This is a particular hurdle now, as construction costs have risen nearly 30 percent in the past three years.

“Until design teams understand that green design is not additive, it will be difficult to overcome the notion that green costs more, especially in an era of rapid cost escalation,” according to the report, “Cost of Green Revisited.”

The Davis Langdon report, which studied 221 new construction projects, found no significant difference in the average costs for green buildings and nongreen buildings. Green buildings were defined as those in which the primary goal was to achieve environmental certification from the U.S. Green Building Council; this certification was not considered in the design of nongreen buildings.

“Many project teams are building green buildings with little or no added cost, and with budgets well within the cost range of nongreen buildings with similar programs,” the report said.


Davis Langdon compared the costs of green and nongreen buildings in comparable structures, including laboratories, libraries and ambulatory care facilities. Costs varied widely for both green and nongreen structures, indicating that there can be both low-cost and high-cost buildings in each category.

Most of the buildings surveyed were able to achieve green certification without any additional funding, while some required additional funding for specific sustainable features, such as solar panels, the report said.
About 40 of the nearly 890 buildings certified by the U.S. Green Building Council as of June 1 are owned by the federal government.

Getting the money from Congress to pay for those types of technologies is difficult because of how construction projects are funded, said Dennis Ramdahin, an energy strategist at the Air Force.

The design and construction of new buildings or renovations of existing buildings are funded separately from the long-term operating costs to run those building, even though operating a building makes up 90 percent of the building’s total life-cycle costs, Ramdahin said Aug. 16 at an energy conference in Atlanta.

Since the two expenses are funded separately, agencies often can’t get extra money upfront to cover energy saving innovations that would pay off in the long run. As a result, those innovations often are cut if projects come in over budget.

“The first thing to cut if costs are too high is green design,” Ramdahin said. “You design low [cost] and let the operating budget take the hit for the next hundred years.”

Ramdahin has designed a financial tool to illustrate how money spent upfront on green design features can save in utility bills, repairs and maintenance salaries. New York City officials have embraced the tool and have calculated operational savings into the upfront capital costs for the $400 million renovation of the Empire State Building, he said.

The federal government, however, seems to be in a different place, he said.
Agencies are under considerable pressure from Congress and the Bush administration to cut overall energy use by 30 percent by October 2015 and to increase the proportion of renewable energy used to at least 7.5 percent by October 2012.

In the past few weeks, leaders from the White House, Pentagon and Energy Department have said that agencies won’t get the appropriated dollars to pay for these initiatives. Instead, they will need to rely on private financing by so-called energy service companies, or ESCOs, which pay for improvements upfront and are reimbursed through the savings generated from the projects.

Such financing, which costs more than if agencies could pay for the improvements upfront, could be avoided if Congress would pony up the cash by recognizing the ultimate savings.

“The money you would put into the ESCO in 30 years to improve the efficiency of the building is what needs to be put upfront,” Ramdahin said.
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2007, 10:31 PM
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Quote from an article in the real deal...
http://www.therealdeal.net/issues/SE...1188602318.php

Major players gobble up Hudson Yards sites
Big builders set to converge on far West Side


By Lauren Elkies
September 2007



A view of the rail yards at Ninth Avenue between 31st and 33rd streets.

Development of the Hudson Yards area is still in its infancy, but big builders have been amassing large swaths of land on the far West Side with plans to infuse the area with major residential and commercial projects.

This month, The Real Deal set out to take a detailed look at what many see as the area of Manhattan poised for the greatest amount of development going forward, with a block-by-block chart and map of projects planned for the neighborhood as well as recent property sales.

Of course, the big boys of development -- including Vornado, Related, Brookfield, the Moinian Group, Rockrose and Extell Development -- have accrued sizeable holdings in the area, stretching roughly between 30th and 42nd streets from the Hudson River to Eighth Avenue.

Comparatively smaller players -- names like Circle Properties and Lalezarian Developers -- are also snapping up buildings and development sites.

Extell may lead the way with the greatest number of large planned projects, bids or recent buys, with a total of five. The firm has already completed one condo building in the area, the Orion; has plans for a mixed-use tower and an office tower; is bidding on a massive hotel project; and just purchased a tract of land on 34th Street.

But it's the Related Companies, Brookfield Properties and Vornado Realty Trust that may end up covering the widest amount of land, even with fewer total projects in the works.

All three companies are among the bidders to develop the massive 26-acre Hudson Rail Yards
, owned by the MTA, which run from 30th to 33rd streets and from 10th to 12th avenues.

In addition, Vornado and Related are the companies planning to develop Moynihan Station, which includes rebuilding Penn Station and Madison Square Garden on the site of the Farley Post Office.

For its part, Brookfield is planning four office towers that would total 4.7 million square feet on Ninth Avenue between 31st and 33rd streets.

Brookfield Properties' CEO has said the company's plans on Ninth Avenue will be put on hold if there is no movement on the extension of the No. 7 train.


A graphic of developments...
http://www.therealdeal.net/pdf/Hudso...MajorSites.pdf
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  #92  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 11:59 AM
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Older, 90's proposal for the same site...
http://www.gwathmey-siegel.com/portf...?job_id=198620


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  #93  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 6:43 PM
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You scared me for a second. I though that was it.
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  #94  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 7:33 PM
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You scared me for a second. I though that was it.
No, but both of those towers are situated on the site in the same way - the smaller 1.6 msf tower will be at 33rd Street, the larger 2.4 msf tower will be at 31st.
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  #95  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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You scared me for a second. I though that was it.
me too.
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  #96  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 8:11 PM
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me too.
From the website:

Quote:
Situated one block west of New York City's Penn Station and developed by special permit over a railroad right of way, the design for this 31-story office tower was completed in 1990. With the development of substantial fiber optic internet cabling along Ninth Avenue, it is currently being reconsidered as a prime opportunity for leasing to high tech tenants.

The typical tower floor plates average 33,000 square feet with lease spans ranging from 40 to 55 feet. The total building holds 970,000 square feet above grade and over 300 parking spaces in two below-grade levels. The design employs bonus floor area by including public areas at the plaza level. The structure is clad primarily in glass and steps back progressively from the corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street with a clear base, shaft and top composition. This strategy creates a signature public presence and brings increased daylight to the landscaped entry plaza below, while increasing the number of corner offices within the tower.

At street level a stone paving pattern composes the plaza into a grid with trees and benches which in turn surround a retail arcade. The development of this generous public space transforms the railroad easement into an extension of the 34th Street Business Improvement District and anticipates the increased pedestrian activity that will arrive with the rejuvenated Penn Station on its new site immediately across Ninth Avenue.
Compared to the current development:

Quote:
Site 729A
Northwest corner of Ninth Avenue and West 31st Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 2,443,400

Site 729B
Southeast corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 1,533,851
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  #97  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2007, 10:48 PM
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Anything is an improvement in this part of town.
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2007, 11:39 PM
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Brookfield's 4 tower placeholder can be seen here:


curbed.com
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  #99  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2007, 11:41 PM
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Some good heights it appears on the back two. The other two are just canyon additions.
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  #100  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2007, 11:56 PM
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Some good heights it appears on the back two. The other two are just canyon additions.
I think its just an indication of the layout, but SOM's working on that one as well. In fact, SOM's work will go even beyond that to Moynihan/Penn Station itself.
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