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  #21  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 1:31 PM
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I've never heard anyone even here on SSP argue St. John's had better year-round weather than any of those, let alone all three. Halifax gets better summers. The others get better winters and summers.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I've never heard anyone even here on SSP argue St. John's had better year-round weather than any of those, let alone all three. Halifax gets better summers. The others get better winters and summers.
All four seasons including winter are better in Halifax than St. John's, the graphs posted on the previous page from Environment Canada prove it.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 2:20 PM
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You're comparing the Halifax Citadel to our airport. We don't have a downtown station so that's not really fair. Our airport is a miniscule amount warmer than yours during the winter.

St. John's is an exceptionally sheltered harbour. There's a noticeable difference even between Cabot Tower and Water Street year-round, let alone up at the airport. If we had a proper downtown station today comparable to the citadel, I've no doubt it would be milder than what you've posted in winter. And not as much cooler in summer as well, for that matter.

It's the norm here to head up to Signal Hill or Cape Spear to cool off on hot summer days. And there are lots of winter ones where it's still and comfortable downtown but blowing a gale at higher elevations like YYT.

It's like finding a space between buildings with no wind in a downtown core. I've lived in every province from NL to WPG (excluding PEI) and I've always found winters colder away.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
You're comparing the Halifax Citadel to our airport. We don't have a downtown station so that's not really fair. Our airport is a miniscule amount warmer than yours during the winter.
No I included Halifax Citadel just for additional data along with Halifax Shearwater Airport.

Shearwater airport is approx. the same distance to Downtown Halifax as YYT is from Downtown St. John's (within 5-6 km).

Halifax Stanfield is halfway to Truro where nobody lives and has a different micro climate than the Halifax-Dartmouth populated area.

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  #25  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 2:48 PM
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An interesting observation into seasonal lag - Edmonton and Toronto have almost identical average temperatures in April. Of course by mid-May Edmonton is almost at it's annual peak in terms of daily high while Toronto still has a good 6 or 7 degrees to go.

And then in November Edmonton avg high rapidly falls to 0 while Toronto is still around 8 or 9.

Coldest day of the winter in Toronto is almost a month after Edmonton. Hottest day of summer in Toronto is also a few weeks after Edmonton.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
If we had a proper downtown station today comparable to the citadel, I've no doubt it would be milder than what you've posted in winter. And not as much cooler in summer as well, for that matter.
Well you have no official data to back this up with. We could argue whether or not Lower Water St. in Halifax is warmer or colder than Water St. in St. John's forever, but it's kinda pointless without any real official data for those streets.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 5:17 PM
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Probably the biggest incorrect stereotype or misconception about Canadian weather is that there is a static, uniform winter climate across entire Prairies, even though some cities in SouthWestern part of Prairies have average day time highs above freezing year round.

Also most Canadians don't know that there are Prairie cities that get a half to a fifth the amount of snowfall other cities farther east get.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 7:01 PM
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I wanted to start it off by posting a few graphs I made today to shed some education on the myth that the West Coast is always rainy and wet.
I have to challenge the original poster's methodology here for "dispelling the myth that the West Coast is always rainy and wet" by attempting to compare volumes of precipitation between cities.

The volume of rain is seldom the thing people complain about with regards to either Vancouver or Victoria - it is the constant cloudiness and the ever present dribbling of rain that wears people down and refer to those climates as unpleasant (some would certainly say "brutal").

Compare a place like Miami, whose rainiest month is almost twice as rainy as Vancouver's rainiest month. If you are going by absolute precipitation volumes, you would assume that Miami would be the worse place to spend the month. Consider however, that the rainiest month in Vancouver sees more than 20 days of the month under a cloud of rain, compared to only 17.9 rainy days in Miami's month (which sees almost twice the volume of rain).

Consider also that in that month Miami has a glorious 262 hours of sunshine, which is nipping at the heel's of Vancouver's famously sunny and warm summers, which peak at 289.8 hours of sunshine (this is comparing the *most* rainy Miami month with the *least* rainy Vancouver month in terms of hours of sunshine).

By contrast, the least amount of sun Miami gets all year is 216 hours in a month in December, compared to a paltry 56.5 hours in Vancouver for the entire month (combined with again, 20 days on average of rain).

There is no "myth about the West coast of Canada being wet and rainy". It is a fact.

The summers, however, are some of the best in Canada. Sunny, very little rain, very comfortable temperatures (much more comfortable than Miami and Texas summers, for example). The winters, absolutely deserve their reputation for being soul crushingly brutally rainy, cloudy, and dreary. And I think anyone who lived through Vancouver's most recent winter season can attest to that. Fortunately, not every winter is as brutal as this one, and it will unlikely repeat itself to that degree over the next few years.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Probably the biggest incorrect stereotype or misconception about Canadian weather is that there is a static, uniform winter climate across entire Prairies, even though some cities in SouthWestern part of Prairies have average day time highs above freezing year round.

Also most Canadians don't know that there are Prairie cities that get a half to a fifth the amount of snowfall other cities farther east get.
You're always a joy to read when it comes to petty squabbles about Canadian weather. Pray tell, what cities in the large swath of the southwestern Prairies get above freezing in winter? What large swath of the 6-million-strong population of the Prairies enjoy such balmy temperatures in winter counterintuitively to the general conception of the place as as barren, frozen wasteland for half the year?

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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I have to challenge the original poster's methodology here for "dispelling the myth that the West Coast is always rainy and wet" by attempting to compare volumes of precipitation between cities.

The volume of rain is seldom the thing people complain about with regards to either Vancouver or Victoria - it is the constant cloudiness and the ever present dribbling of rain that wears people down and refer to those climates as unpleasant (some would certainly say "brutal").
Can't help it, I have to chime in here for the ten thousandth time about how absolutely barmy it is that people in BC "brag" about the climate there. We just had a week of near constant rain and chilly temperatures, and by yesterday I was well into kill-me-now territory. It just never let up (well, save for Wednesday).

Jeebus Christ, that was unbearable. We are not used to more than two days in a row of rain or drizzle around here. When it happens people get sad. So...six months of that? Are you for real?

Sorry, but no. Just...no. You know those times we get a cold snap and the lows go down to a frigid -15 at night for a couple days in a row in January or February, and people in Vancouver congratulate themselves for not having to "endure" that (I've literally had this said to me by different people from Vancouver)? Well, that is literally a thousand times less soul-crushing than what we just went through this past week. It's not even close. It's just no contest.

I admit that it's clear from my rant in this post that I, erm, sometimes let unpleasant weather bother me more than is healthy, but as a passionate cyclist I can't help it. Rain is kryptonite to me. Can't accept it aside from in small doses. Which points to another reason that these precipitation totals are so laughable. You're seriously going to compare hard summer thundershowers that last two hours to an equivalent amount of precipitation in "Raincouver" that represents two weeks of grey and drizzle?

It's sunny out right now. I'm outta here.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
... some cities in SouthWestern part of Prairies have average day time highs above freezing year round.
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Pray tell, what cities in the large swath of the southwestern Prairies get above freezing in winter? What large swath of the 6-million-strong population of the Prairies enjoy such balmy temperatures in winter counterintuitively to the general conception of the place as as barren, frozen wasteland for half the year?



Go to the Wikipedia page on Lethbridge, Alberta. There is a coloured chart showing an average high for every month of the year that is not below freezing.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
You're always a joy to read when it comes to petty squabbles about Canadian weather. Pray tell, what cities in the large swath of the southwestern Prairies get above freezing in winter? What large swath of the 6-million-strong population of the Prairies enjoy such balmy temperatures in winter counterintuitively to the general conception of the place as as barren, frozen wasteland for half the year?



Can't help it, I have to chime in here for the ten thousandth time about how absolutely barmy it is that people in BC "brag" about the climate there. We just had a week of near constant rain and chilly temperatures, and by yesterday I was well into kill-me-now territory. It just never let up (well, save for Wednesday).

Jeebus Christ, that was unbearable. We are not used to more than two days in a row of rain or drizzle around here. When it happens people get sad. So...six months of that? Are you for real?

Sorry, but no. Just...no. You know those times we get a cold snap and the lows go down to a frigid -15 at night for a couple days in a row in January or February, and people in Vancouver congratulate themselves for not having to "endure" that (I've literally had this said to me by different people from Vancouver)? Well, that is literally a thousand times less soul-crushing than what we just went through this past week. It's not even close. It's just no contest.

I admit that it's clear from my rant in this post that I, erm, sometimes let unpleasant weather bother me more than is healthy, but as a passionate cyclist I can't help it. Rain is kryptonite to me. Can't accept it aside from in small doses. Which points to another reason that these precipitation totals are so laughable. You're seriously going to compare hard summer thundershowers that last two hours to an equivalent amount of precipitation in "Raincouver" that represents two weeks of grey and drizzle?

It's sunny out right now. I'm outta here.


Get a grip.

Weather is very subjective. I've known many people who live in Vancouver because of the weather, preferring the cooler summers, and milder winters to the colder winter and hotter summer climates of the East, including people from Montreal, and who would rather die than go back, but it's usually more than that reason alone.

Today is 15C+ and sunny, a great day in Vancouver!
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  #32  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 10:58 PM
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No I included Halifax Citadel just for additional data along with Halifax Shearwater Airport.

Shearwater airport is approx. the same distance to Downtown Halifax as YYT is from Downtown St. John's (within 5-6 km).

Halifax Stanfield is halfway to Truro where nobody lives and has a different micro climate than the Halifax-Dartmouth populated area.

Shearwater is at 51m elevation, and about as exposed as downtown Halifax.

St. John's International is at 141m elevation, on a plateau, fully exposed to everything from every direction - compared to a downtown core that is like the water in your hands cupped to carry it.

You stick your weather station 141m up in the air and see if it's colder than ours (it will be).

And I can't believe I'm... usually in these discussions I'm kind of detached and not that invested. But I am actually hands-on-hips into this one.

I spent a winter in Cole Harbour and Dartmouth. And it was effing brutal.
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Last edited by SignalHillHiker; May 7, 2017 at 11:56 PM.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Shearwater is at 51m elevation, and about as exposed as downtown Halifax.

St. John's International is at 141m elevation, on a plateau - compared to a downtown core that is like the water in your hands cupped to carry it.

You stick your weather station 141m up in the air and see if it's colder than ours (it will be).

And I can't believe I'm... usually in these discussions I'm kind of detached and not that invested. But I am actually hands-on-hips into this one.

I spent a winter in Cole Harbour and Dartmouth. And it was effing brutal.
^Ha ha, I almost spit out my coffee reading that last sentence.

Here is the closest official comparison: Halifax Citadel (70m) and Signal Hill (96m). Both on top of exposed hills with lots of wind and close to downtown approx. ~1km.

St. John's Signal Hill - Daily Max January -0.5 C, February -0.9C
Halifax Citadel Hill - Daily Max January -0.1 C, February +0.4C



Actually the coldest morning lows usually occur in low lying valleys as oppose to higher elevations.

I've also been to St. John's in winter and it was unbelievable how insanely brutal it was. I have no doubt that Downtown Halifax is warmer on average every month of the year compared to Downtown St. John's (and there is no data that suggests otherwise).
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  #34  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:03 AM
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I already mentioned in a previous post that we go up to Signal Hill to cool off in the summer. It's close, but it's considerably colder because it's exposed. It gets the wind from directions (wind from the southwest and south-but-slightly-east is blocked by the hills behind downtown St. John's on the other side).

For an extreme example, when I filmed my Hurricane Leslie video, note how there's comparably little wind until I get up to Signal Hill:

Video Link

(The last suburban scenes are behind downtown, up on Mount Carson, which is even higher than Signal Hill).

An average day is also like that, just not to that extreme.

And even that same example from this spring. Three days of freezing rain. You could certainly tell on Signal Hill. But downtown, nothing:



We simply do not have a downtown weather station for you to compare Halifax Citadel to. But come here for a winter and see for yourself. You'll be annoyed by all the storms, but surprised by how many days are foggy and above zero, and how it never gets as cold as the annual cold snap day or two in Halifax.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:10 AM
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It get's nasty on top of Citadel Hill too:

VIDEO LINK (15 seconds): https://twitter.com/i/videos/8311179...ource=facebook



Quote:
Chris St.Clair‏@cstclair1

The scene in #Halifax #NSStorm #ATLStorm see more on TheWeatherNetwork
https://twitter.com/cstclair1/status/831117909212663808
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  #36  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
We simply do not have a downtown weather station for you to compare Halifax Citadel to. But come here for a winter and see for yourself. You'll be annoyed by all the storms, but surprised by how many days are foggy and above zero, and how it never gets as cold as the annual cold snap day or two in Halifax.
There is no data to suggest cold snaps are any worse in Downtown Halifax vs Downtown St. John's. I've been to Downtown St. John's in the middle of winter and it was just as cold or colder than Downtown Halifax.

I'd even suggest that all the new skyscrapers in Downtown Halifax since 2010 are helping to increase the urban heat effect slightly making our Downtown even more protected in winter from the cold.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:24 AM
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It's been a decade and we're still arguing over St. John's and Halifax climate data comparisons because of the locations of their airports.

The entire Obama presidency came and went and this still isn't resolved!! The number of countries on the planet has literally increased by 1.5% since this argument began!! We still had Pope John Paul II when someone first levelled this complaint!!
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  #38  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:27 AM
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Edmonton, Canada to host the 2018 Cities and Climate Change Science Conference

This conference will strengthen our understanding of climate change and cities and lay the groundwork for more effective, targeted decisions. An advocate of science-based policy, Mayor Don Iveson is bringing this milestone to Edmonton in 2018.
The City of Edmonton, Canada has been announced as host city for the 2018 Cities and Climate Change Science Conference. The conference, co-sponsored by the IPCC and a coalition of United Nations agencies, research and local governments network, including ICLEI - Local Governments for Sustainability, promises to boost the scientific understanding of climate change and cities.

Scientific analysis, evidence and data are key to effective and responsible decision-making at the local, regional, national and global levels. By acknowledging the scientific evidence brought forward by the IPCC, local and regional governments all over the world are pioneering innovative approaches to measure progress on emissions goals and build resilience within their communities.

ICLEI was instrumental in ensuring that IPCC put cities and local climate action into focus, and it was at an ICLEI-hosted session at COP22, the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Marrakech, Morocco where Mayor Don Iveson and other local leaders learned about the open call for a host city. A veteran of climate talks and advocate of science-based policy, Mayor Iveson was eager to bring this milestone event to his community.

The 2018 Cities and Climate Science Conference is going to give new impulse to global and local research on the impacts of climate change on cities, helping local leaders to develop and strengthen science-based policies.

ICLEI congratulates Mayor Iveson and the City of Edmonton.

http://www.iclei.org/details/article...onference.html
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  #39  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:33 AM
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There is no data to suggest cold snaps are any worse in Downtown Halifax vs Downtown St. John's. I've been to Downtown St. John's in the middle of winter and it was just as cold or colder than Downtown Halifax.

I'd even suggest that all the new skyscrapers in Downtown Halifax since 2010 are helping to increase the urban heat effect slightly making our Downtown even more protected in winter from the cold.
There is evidence, though. Check just about any year of Environment Canada records and your airport will have recorded lows that exceed ours, usually slightly, often significantly (say, if you get anything below -20C. We almost never do).

Like, last winter, Halifax's extreme lows in January and February 2017 were 17.2 and 17.1. Ours were 15.4 and 16.0. It's very rare that's not the case.

2016 was -14.2 and -17.1 in HFX. St. John's was -12.0 and -13.1.

2015 was -19.4 and -21.7 in HFX. St. John's was -15.3 and -13.4.

2014 was -22.6 and -19.4 in HFX. St. John's was -18.4 and -17.1.

And so on.

Our extreme cold temperatures at YYT are closer to your Citadel/Shearwater stations. If we had one downtown to compare them to, well...
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  #40  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:38 AM
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It's been a decade and we're still arguing over St. John's and Halifax climate data comparisons because of the locations of their airports.

The entire Obama presidency came and went and this still isn't resolved!! The number of countries on the planet has literally increased by 1.5% since this argument began!! We still had Pope John Paul II when someone first levelled this complaint!!
I didn't even start it this time - nor did G12. It was already in the thread from when it was posted, before we joined.

BTW - Marty-Mcfly found our old downtown weather station. It was on top of the Newfoundland Hotel, in Fort William. Near the elevation of the Citadel, but slightly more exposed than the Citadel is:

http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate...=1955&Month=1#

Went through and compared the two from the 1930s on. Halifax Citadel records a colder extreme low for January and February most years, and not uncommonly by 5C or more. St. John's, though, records a colder temperature about 1/3 of the time, though typically less than 3C colder.
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Last edited by SignalHillHiker; May 8, 2017 at 1:06 AM.
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