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  #201  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2014, 11:39 PM
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Im so confused by this whole huge project, which renderings are correct and where the hell can I see a correct design for this whole area?
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  #202  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 1:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
NY will never have many buildings like that China rendering because NY is really the only city on earth that primarily builds skyscrapers on an urban grid.

Even if you go somewhere ultra-urban like a Hong Kong, you will notice their tallest towers are built in a non-urban context (i.e. built in isolation to the larger streetscape). The zoning in NYC doesn't even allow for this type of development.

Or, take Shanghai Tower. The tower is fantastic, but the urban design is horrible. The zoning in NYC prioritizes, above all, the relationship of the building to the existing urban environment. This means, by definition, you will get mostly boxes superimposed on the grid.

And the primary driver of NYC supertall development is ultra-high residential demand for supertalls with views. This almost necessitates boxes, because you are trying to maximize living space as high as possible, and you want to maximize retail space at the base. And, in this residential context, a crown is functionally useless and usually cannot be illuminated.
I'm sorry but that's probably the worst argument I've ever heard. All you have to do is browse through these threads and you'll see lots of cool "out of the box" designs (pun intended, too easy) ie 30 Hudson Yards, 111 West 57th, One57, and 56 Loenard. You can try to defend NYC's box designs, and I won't assume it's due to bias, but lets at least be realistic here. You can use NYC's street grid and have fantastic, original, and inspiring designs. There are plenty of examples to corroborate my statement.

I tend to dislike box designs, I'll be completely honest about that. I thoroughly dislike 432 Park Ave, even after watching it grow from its infancy, it has yet to grow on me. It has a very impressive width to height ratio, but that's all it has going for it. Same goes with the Twin Towers, rip.

In my opinion, boxy designs are a travesty to NYC's skyline. A city that became famous due to its set backs and spires deserves better. Call me a hater, but this redesign is disgusting. I loved the previous one, it wasn't original but it was definitely sexy.
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  #203  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
NY will never have many buildings like that China rendering because NY is really the only city on earth that primarily builds skyscrapers on an urban grid.
That grid is also what makes the Manhattan streetwall, and the resulting canyons. It's why the language is written into the zoning and anything outside of it requires public review,
which can be risky (see the Tower Verre).

But at least here, while the lower portion always looked to work into that grid, Childs has more Freedom to work the design. He's cut loose with so many variations already.
But also remember he's working for Related, and Stephen Ross will live at the top of this tower. Related's home offices will also be here.


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Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
Im so confused by this whole huge project, which renderings are correct and where the hell can I see a correct design for this whole area?
Related updates its website for the project with renderings. This is the current view of the project (minus 50 HY and the western half of the railyards).



http://www.hudsonyardsnewyork.com/news-press
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  #204  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
I'm sorry but that's probably the worst argument I've ever heard. All you have to do is browse through these threads and you'll see lots of cool "out of the box" designs (pun intended, too easy) ie 30 Hudson Yards, 111 West 57th, One57, and 56 Loenard.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Three of these buildings are basically boxes. They meet the street in a boxy manner, and meet the sky in a boxy manner. They're built to the grid.

The fourth, in Hudson Yards, is actually pretty atypical and anti-urban for NYC standards. And I never said every single building in NYC is a box, or that boxes can't have variety.
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
You can try to defend NYC's box designs, and I won't assume it's due to bias, but lets at least be realistic here. You can use NYC's street grid and have fantastic, original, and inspiring designs.
Of course you can have fantastic, original, and inspiring designs. But these designs will tend to be boxes. There is nothing "fantastic, original and inspiring" about a non-box or not "fantastic, original and inspiring" about a box. You're using your architectural biases to feed your opinions on originality.
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
In my opinion, boxy designs are a travesty to NYC's skyline. A city that became famous due to its set backs and spires deserves better.
Setbacks and spires haven't been common in NYC since before the Great Depression, when the city had totally different zoning regulations. And even these buildings were essentially boxes, but with a "hat" on top. 40 Wall, ESB, etc. are fundamentally boxes. Unless you want to transform yourself back to this era, it isn't happening.
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  #205  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2014, 5:28 PM
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Besides, if an overdue amount of deference were in fact given to non-boxy designs, can you imagine how many street wall purists would be up in arms over the multitudes of insults done to the visual continuity of said street grid?

Last edited by JayPro; Sep 6, 2014 at 8:01 PM.
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  #206  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2014, 1:29 PM
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Besides, if an overdue amount of deference were in fact given to non-boxy designs, can you imagine how many street wall purists would be up in arms over the multitudes of insults done to the visual continuity of said street grid?
That's accurate, especially in cases of demolition before construction.
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  #207  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2014, 1:41 PM
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One more quick example:
Aside from the One57, which is essentially a rectangular-derivative plot shaped in such a way as NYC zoning, together with extremely resourceful development tactics, allowed for that specific area...
...What say ye about BofA?
Certainly no one here would call it a box. Yet the parcel of land built on it is perfectly rectilinear, therefore constraining the preconstruction dimensions of the building to that of...well...
...a box.
How paraboxical is that??
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  #208  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2014, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JayPro View Post
One more quick example:
Aside from the One57, which is essentially a rectangular-derivative plot shaped in such a way as NYC zoning, together with extremely resourceful development tactics, allowed for that specific area...
...What say ye about BofA?
Certainly no one here would call it a box. Yet the parcel of land built on it is perfectly rectilinear, therefore constraining the preconstruction dimensions of the building to that of...well...
...a box.
How paraboxical is that??

I wouldn't call BofA a box, but it is very fat. I would have preferred something a little more streamlined, which would have given it more height. The bulkiness of it makes it a little stubby. Not exactly a box, due to its angular design, but still fits within the grid.
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  #209  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2014, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I wouldn't call BofA a box, but it is very fat. I would have preferred something a little more streamlined, which would have given it more height. The bulkiness of it makes it a little stubby. Not exactly a box, due to its angular design, but still fits within the grid.
I just wish they extended the roof to an even 1100 feet, even if it was empty space. It's one of the best looking designs of the past decade and it deserves to stand out more on the skyline.
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  #210  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2014, 7:26 PM
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I wouldn't call BofA a box, but it is very fat...
Due north/south along Ave of the A's, it is.

I can't say the same looking down 42nd, though.
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  #211  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 7:00 PM
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When I said box designs, I meant buildings that carried the box design from the base all the way to the top. I had an inkling my explanation was going to be misconstrued, so I'm clearing it up.

Crawford, you certainly played around with my statements on this lol.
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  #212  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2014, 11:11 PM
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Even BofA fits in and is aligned with the grid. However, its the sheer bulkiness of the form that leans more towards boxiness. No, its not really a box.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...son-yards-role

Doctoroff sets sights on Hudson Yards role
Bloomberg's CEO will focus on Hudson Yards' Culture Shed



Theresa Agovino
September 9, 2014


Quote:
Culture Shed, the planned arts institution for Hudson Yards, may be the biggest beneficiary of Daniel Doctoroff's departure from Bloomberg LP.

Mr. Doctoroff heads Culture Shed's board and said last week that he would be spending more time on it after he steps down as Bloomberg's president and CEO at the end of the year. Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg will go back to running his namesake company.

Mr. Doctoroff's increased involvement would come as Culture Shed gets ready to enter a new stage of activity. Search firm Russell Reynolds has been tapped to find an executive director, and sources said that requests for bids on construction contracts would soon be released. Diller Scofidio + Renfro and the Rockwell Group were tapped to design the 170,000-square-foot, multipurpose structure, which is slated to abut the High Line along West 30th Street near 11th Avenue.

The Shed will feature programming such as art exhibits, concerts and theater and dance shows.

It's unclear how much the structure will cost to build. Mr. Doctoroff didn't return calls, and a spokeswoman for Bloomberg Associates, the former mayor's newly launched consulting firm, said no one was available to discuss the project. Former Cultural Commissioner Kate Levin, who now works at Bloomberg Associates, was a champion of Culture Shed. She sat on its board when she was in the Bloomberg administration but no longer does.

The Bloomberg administration's $50 million grant to Culture Shed raised eyebrows last year, with some thinking it was an especially generous contribution to an organization that didn't have a staff, budget or programming. There were no additional funds for Culture Shed in Mayor Bill de Blasio's first budget, according to a spokesman for the city's Department of Cultural Affairs.

According to papers filed with the IRS, Culture Shed was expecting to raise $101 million in 2013, and $96 million this year.

The board has at least one heavy hitter besides Mr. Doctoroff: billionaire Steve Ross, who is developing Hudson Yards. Sources said that designer Diane von Furstenberg and Richard Koshalek, former director of Washington, D.C.'s Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, are also on the board. Ms. von Furstenberg's spokeswoman didn't return a call, and Mr. Koshalek couldn't be reached for comment.
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  #213  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 10:39 AM
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  #214  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 2:22 PM
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^ That building in the foreground is practically worthy of it's own thread.
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  #215  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by colemonkee View Post
^ That building in the foreground is practically worthy of it's own thread.
That's Zaha Hadid's beauty (520 28th Street), one of many going up along the High Line
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=447






More detail...

http://www.designboom.com/architectu...rks-high-line/






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  #216  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 4:59 PM
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^ Construction will start soon.

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  #217  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 5:11 PM
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Where is Neiman-Marcus going to be?
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  #218  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 7:20 PM
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Where is Neiman-Marcus going to be?
That's over at 30 HY, the tallest of Related's towers...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=1955

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...02#post6716402
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  #219  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 8:10 PM
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How much excavation does this tower need?
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  #220  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2014, 12:22 AM
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How much excavation does this tower need?
It needs as much excavation as any other tower that height. You can see location of the tower on the picture below. Rail tracks will have to be temporarily dismantled to allow excavation. I assume they will be integrated into the base of the tower.

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