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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 1:22 PM
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Yet another proposal for High Speed Rail in the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor

Personally, I have always been for this project. What do you all think?

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/534489

Ontario and Quebec push speedy train link
The Toronto Star
Nov 11, 2008 04:30 AM
Richard Brennan, Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA–Ontario and Quebec say the federal government should back a multi-billion-dollar high-speed train link from Windsor to Quebec City to create jobs and a lasting legacy for a country struggling with hard economic times.

"It's more than just an infrastructure project. It's visionary in nature," Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday. "I'm hoping that we can turn this (economic) crisis into an opportunity to actually act as a catalyst to move this project along," he told reporters.

The premiers and territorial leaders were in Ottawa to meet with Prime Minister Stephen Harper on the economy and to discuss ways to create jobs, especially in areas hard hit by manufacturing job losses.

"They could send a powerful signal by saying the fast train project between Quebec City ... and Windsor is going to happen," Quebec Premier Jean Charest said yesterday of a proposed high-speed train that could get travellers from Toronto to Montreal in less than 2 1/2 hours.

"I am of the conviction that this is a project that must be carried out ... it's an excellent project and the time is all the more important because of traffic problems and from an environmental perspective," Charest said.

Both McGuinty and Charest raised the long-discussed project with Harper, who said he would wait to see the results of the latest study to be commissioned.

"I could see the wheels spinning as the Prime Minister considered this. One of the things that this time calls for are just a few visionary projects that speak to our continuing investment in and hope associated with the promise of our future," McGuinty said.

The 1,150-kilometre route has been studied many times over the decades. In 1995 the estimated cost was $18.3 billion, and, when adjusted for inflation, the cost today would be almost $25 billion.

Charest and McGuinty, along with the federal government, announced in January another high-speed rail study, with each government throwing in $1 million to hire a consultant to review the previous reports and come up with something that meets today's needs.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 2:48 PM
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Would love to see this become a reality.
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 2:53 PM
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Of course I am all for it. Also it'd be good that Hamilton be included in it.
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 3:22 PM
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I think the high speed train will likely skip over Hamilton. Probably go from London to K/W to the GTA.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 3:33 PM
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I'm all for it. Its time has come.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 4:53 PM
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I would phase it forsure, with the first phase being Montreal-Dorval-Union-YYZ. Fully integrating into the airport network in the first phase would set up the link for further expansion, with more public support. Trying to swallow the price for the full link all at once would be pretty crazy.

Combined with a system to double track (or more) and make more frequent the commuter trains in Montreal and Toronto, you have a winning situation.
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_olsen View Post
I would phase it forsure, with the first phase being Montreal-Dorval-Union-YYZ. Fully integrating into the airport network in the first phase would set up the link for further expansion, with more public support. Trying to swallow the price for the full link all at once would be pretty crazy.

Combined with a system to double track (or more) and make more frequent the commuter trains in Montreal and Toronto, you have a winning situation.
By no means am I an expert, but I'd expect that Montreal-Ottawa would be the first phase for several reasons:

1. It is a much shorter distance, thus constituting less initial risk.
2. VIA already owns the track and right-of-way between the two cities permitting improvements without significant land acquisition.
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Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:02 PM
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It would be cool if we had HsR in the Windsor - QC corridor and the Calgary - Edmonton corridor within 10 years.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyc View Post
It would be cool if we had HsR in the Windsor - QC corridor and the Calgary - Edmonton corridor within 10 years.
I'd settle for some Federal funding for both Calgary and Edmonton to expand their LRT systems further.
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Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:31 PM
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I'd settle for some Federal funding for both Calgary and Edmonton to expand their LRT systems further.
If the LRT in both cities was connected to the future HSR, that would be ideal.
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:31 PM
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A rapid rail link between Ottawa and Montreal will result in Ottawa becoming a mere suburb of Montreal, and also the possible dismantling of the Ottawa henators due to the fact that it will take less time to ride directly to the bell centre than it is to go to kanata by car.


I kid I kid.....
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
I would phase it forsure, with the first phase being Montreal-Dorval-Union-YYZ
That's a pretty big first phase considering the stretch from Union to YYZ alone would probably be in the courts for at least 10 years
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyc View Post
It would be cool if we had HsR in the Windsor - QC corridor and the Calgary - Edmonton corridor within 10 years.
& within 15yrs join those two systems up across the prairies by one of those supersonic rocket trains that travels in a vacuum tube!
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_olsen View Post
I would phase it forsure, with the first phase being Montreal-Dorval-Union-YYZ. Fully integrating into the airport network in the first phase would set up the link for further expansion, with more public support. Trying to swallow the price for the full link all at once would be pretty crazy.

Combined with a system to double track (or more) and make more frequent the commuter trains in Montreal and Toronto, you have a winning situation.
I would actually have it be Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto with connection to all three airports. This way, you actually connect via HSR three of the four largest cities in Canada...
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Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 7:17 PM
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I'm all for it right up until we get to the price tag. If the government is in charge of building any high speed rail link between any cities, it's bound to go way over budget. Even if it does come in at $25 billion...that's still $25 BILLION dollars. What in the world would make this so expensive ? Yes, nothing about it is cheap , I understand that but how much could special trains, track, property, and stations possibly cost ?

$25 billion bucks is a lot of money. I would go so far as to call it an excessive amount of cash for what we'd get. It's still slower than a plane so what exactly does $25 billion buy that we need even for convenience sake ?

Yeah, I can hear it all already "You're being negative" , "Why does it always come down to money for some people", and all the usual stuff from the folks who don't care about the cash if something is shiny enough. None of that will actually answer the questions I'm posing though so please, tell me what makes this a good way to spend that much cash. Make-work project ? Is it so "green" that it actually removes pollution from the air ? (Actually , I already know how some people are going to answer that so let me head you off at the pass. If the same people riding this high-speed link took the "regular" train right now for environmental reasons , we wouldn't "need" a high speed line anyway. They don't take the train today because it's faster and cheaper to take a plane or drive themselves. Being "green" takes a back seat to economics and convenience just like it always does)

Sorry guys but somebody has to ask these questions or we just end up with an echo chamber full of nodding heads.
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Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 7:24 PM
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I'm all for a new HST project between Quebec City and Windsor.

Yes, I agree the cost is high, but over the long term, it's a drop in the bucket, especially if it can stimulate intensive redevelopment at station sites (i.e. downtowns) and get people out of their cars.

I also think it would be great to see it as a province-wide (The Southern portion anyway) metro system that could make it feasible for people to live in places like London and commute to Toronto and vice versa... I hear this is quite common in the smaller cities outside Paris...
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Is it so "green" that it actually removes pollution from the air ? (Actually , I already know how some people are going to answer that so let me head you off at the pass. If the same people riding this high-speed link took the "regular" train right now for environmental reasons , we wouldn't "need" a high speed line anyway. They don't take the train today because it's faster and cheaper to take a plane or drive themselves. Being "green" takes a back seat to economics and convenience just like it always does)
Actually yes, it would remove pollution from the air. Every study for HSR, as well as real world experience in Europe, shows that much of the ridership comes from people who currently fly. Whenever a new HSR line opens between two cities, air traffic plummets, and we all know flying is the dirtiest way to travel. People don't switch to the train because they want to be "green", but because the train is faster, more convenient, more comfortable, and more reliable than flying. It would totally transform how people travel in the Corridor, and even where people live. And being green really has nothing to do with it.

Obviously $25 billion is a lot of money, but the line is forecast to make a profit. And for the Montreal-Toronto portion the capital costs are expected to be completely recovered.
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 8:39 PM
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also perhaps eliminate need for Pickering Airport? that saves a couple of billion right there
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 9:06 PM
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I would love to see this happen, along with the Edmonton to Calgary corridor. That is the only problem with Vancouver, there are no other canadian cities to connect to with high speed rail. The coast of going through the mountains would be astronomical, connecting to Vancouver Island would be astronomical. The Okanagan Valley is about the only possibility i can see in the distant (and i mean distant) future. Right now the Thompson/Okanagan valley's population is around 700 000. Vancouver Island is around 800 000. The only way we could go is south to Seattle and Portland, but i personally want to have as few ties to the US as possible in the future, especially with their increasingly nazi border.
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2008, 9:26 PM
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I fully support this federal-Ont-Que project. And I'm a westerner!

It would be great for the Canadian economy as a whole, and hopefully give us rail infrastructure that puts us in the HSR leagues with Europe and Japan. To reflect our standing in the world as an affluent G7 nation!

What would this proposed line be - ~1000km? And service 13-14 million Canadians?
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