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  #2821  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
But the Buffalo Sabres aren't the Sabers, something I've never been able to find an explanation of.

British spelling wasn't really very common in Canada until the patriotism of the First World War refocused what had been becoming more and more a branch plant of the US on our Britishness.
I was taught both British and US spellings in elementary school in the 70's and early 80's. Each was positioned as an alternative and both were acceptable. Both my parents were educated in US spelling (1950's) in rural AB and SK. The rise of formal Canadian English didn't really happen until the Dictionary of Canadian English was published. US spellings were extremely common in AB until the early 80's (ex. I distinctly remember Southcenter Mall being rebranded as Southcentre in 1982). Centre Street has always been Centre Street to my recollection.
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  #2822  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Feb-you-airy is forbidding in the ar-tic. All you can do is sit in the house staring at the pitchers on the walls.
February is one of the very rare tell-tale words that if I say it will tip most people off that I am not a native English speaker.

I have trouble pronouncing it for some reason.
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  #2823  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 2:52 PM
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February is one of the very rare tell-tale words that if I say it will tip most people off that I am not a native English speaker.
I have trouble pronouncing it for some reason.
I get really tripped up on the French "Bourguignon", as in the beef kind.
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  #2824  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 6:39 PM
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I have no problem with that one. The two that do me in are "bouilloire" (kettle) and écureuil (squirrel). Just too many alien sounds in close proximity for me to get my mouth around them all at more than half speed.
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  #2825  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 11:18 AM
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It's kind of funny how the call for a more nationalistic approach to Canadian orthography was in effect a call for the observance of UK over US norms.
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  #2826  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
It's kind of funny how the call for a more nationalistic approach to Canadian orthography was in effect a call for the observance of UK over US norms.
The distinctive aspect of Canadian orthography is its blending of UK and US norms, no? The issue arises with the shift from one form to the other (almost always from UK to US norms). I wonder if there is a comprehensive list of Canadian spellings that correctly conform to UK and US norms, respectively?
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  #2827  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
The distinctive aspect of Canadian orthography is its blending of UK and US norms, no? The issue arises with the shift from one form to the other (almost always from UK to US norms). I wonder if there is a comprehensive list of Canadian spellings that correctly conform to UK and US norms, respectively?
The Canadian Press style guide?
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  #2828  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
It's kind of funny how the call for a more nationalistic approach to Canadian orthography was in effect a call for the observance of UK over US norms.
It's been mentioned a few times on here that Canadian English spelling used to be more consistent with that of the U.S., and that it has become (a bit) more British-influenced over time.

I honestly had never heard of this before, and always thought that Canadian English started off as primarily British-influenced, and that it had *bravely* and semi-successfully staved off American influence over a couple of centuries...
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  #2829  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I have no problem with that one. The two that do me in are "bouilloire" (kettle) and écureuil (squirrel). Just too many alien sounds in close proximity for me to get my mouth around them all at more than half speed.
'Bouilloire' doesn't seem to contain any "tricky to Anglos" sounds, at first sight... You can pronounce the 'u' that's in écureuil as well as in a gazillion other words correctly? If so, I'm impressed

I've had the following happen countless times to me with learners (both Anglo and unilingual Hispanic) :
Me: "u."
Them: "ou."
Me: "No... u!"
Them: "ou."

It usually ends after I get fed up
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  #2830  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 4:07 PM
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I had noticed it a few times before but lately it's really hit home how most people in Gatineau and Quebec in general seem to refer to July 1 as "le Canada Day", even when speaking in French.

This is odd because in my experience Franco-Ontarians when speaking in French refer to it as "la fête du Canada" (the official name) or "le jour du Canada" (a bad calque from English, but still an attempt to say it in French).

This is bizarre because as you can imagine Franco-Ontarians generally use way more anglicisms and loanwords than people in Gatineau/Quebec do.
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  #2831  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I had noticed it a few times before but lately it's really hit home how most people in Gatineau and Quebec in general seem to refer to July 1 as "le Canada Day", even when speaking in French.

This is odd because in my experience Franco-Ontarians when speaking in French refer to it as "la fête du Canada" (the official name) or "le jour du Canada" (a bad calque from English, but still an attempt to say it in French).

This is bizarre because as you can imagine Franco-Ontarians generally use way more anglicisms and loanwords than people in Gatineau/Quebec do.
In my circle, "la Fête du Canada" is much more used. Never heard "le Canada Day" being used during a conversation in French.
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  #2832  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by begratto View Post
In my circle, "la Fête du Canada" is much more used. Never heard "le Canada Day" being used during a conversation in French.
OK then maybe it's just a Gatineau thing.

(When I saw you had posted, I thought you were going to say that you refer to Canada Day as "la journée nationale du déménagement"...)
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  #2833  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 5:25 PM
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OK then maybe it's just a Gatineau thing.

(When I saw you had posted, I thought you were going to say that you refer to Canada Day as "la journée nationale du déménagement"...)
True

However, I noticed that "moving day" is more used in the France media when they talk about our odd tradition of moving en masse on July 1st.

It isn't really used much in every day conversations here in Quebec.
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  #2834  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 7:54 PM
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In my circles, it's pretty much always simply called "le premier juillet".
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  #2835  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 8:10 PM
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In my circles, it's pretty much always simply called "le premier juillet".
oui, la St-Jean et le 1er juillet tombent un samedi.
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  #2836  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 8:23 PM
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oui, la St-Jean et le 1er juillet tombent un samedi.
Cette année? J'avoue ne pas avoir vérifié.
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  #2837  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
'Bouilloire' doesn't seem to contain any "tricky to Anglos" sounds, at first sight... You can pronounce the 'u' that's in écureuil as well as in a gazillion other words correctly? If so, I'm impressed

I've had the following happen countless times to me with learners (both Anglo and unilingual Hispanic) :
Me: "u."
Them: "ou."
Me: "No... u!"
Them: "ou."

It usually ends after I get fed up
I find that if you pucker up you mouth and try to say (long) "e", you come pretty close.
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  #2838  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I've had the following happen countless times to me with learners (both Anglo and unilingual Hispanic) :
Me: "u."
Them: "ou."
Me: "No... u!"
Them: "ou."

It usually ends after I get fed up
Real conversation I've had in Vancouver:

Them: "ou"
Me: "it should be u"
Them: "Well, I learned Parisian French, not Canadian French"
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  #2839  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 9:51 PM
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This is more general armchair linguistic stuff but English is full of dipthongs or "gliding vowels". French has them too but they are somewhat less prevalent, and there are a lot of words or analogous sounds that do have them in English but don't in French. An English speaker moves their lips around when they say "oh", for example.

This is one of the things that sounds weird and gives people an accent in English or French when they are a native speaker of the other language.

Some other features that cause people to sound like they have an accent are the sounds that simply don't exist in one language but do in the other. Examples are the English "th", French "r" (native English speakers basically never make anything close to this sound, so it is hard for them), and French "u" (English speakers do make the movements necessary to make this sound, but not in the same combination needed for this sound, so it's easier but still not natural).
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  #2840  
Old Posted May 27, 2017, 3:30 AM
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This is more general armchair linguistic stuff but English is full of dipthongs or "gliding vowels". French has them too but they are somewhat less prevalent, and there are a lot of words or analogous sounds that do have them in English but don't in French. An English speaker moves their lips around when they say "oh", for example.

This is one of the things that sounds weird and gives people an accent in English or French when they are a native speaker of the other language.

Some other features that cause people to sound like they have an accent are the sounds that simply don't exist in one language but do in the other. Examples are the English "th", French "r" (native English speakers basically never make anything close to this sound, so it is hard for them), and French "u" (English speakers do make the movements necessary to make this sound, but not in the same combination needed for this sound, so it's easier but still not natural).
"gn" in French is also tough for anglos, as is the oeil or euil sound.
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