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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:02 PM
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Nalcor ex-board of directors will be down in the Avalon Mall parking lot protesting with the masses tomorrow, climbing over snowbanks like something fierce.

Everything is falling in place. Soon we'll have to dust off the 'ol copy of operation Valkyrie that Danny wrote up during #flaggate
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:46 PM
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We agree on a lot of things, but some of these are probably not it. Rural NL will die on its own within the next 100 years, with the larger communities like you've mentioned sticking around. Minus the larger ones such as Corner Brook, Grand Falls, and Gander (and maybe even Clarenville), they probably won't get any more urban than they already are, it's much nicer to move to St. John's then Deer Lake. Of course, that's best case scenario when it comes to finances.
The fuck Deer lake or more properly the humber valley is best location on the island to live.

It's basically part of the Corner Brook metro, got ski resorts, a beatiful lake for summer etc. Obviously the jobs aren't the jobs aren't there. But your kidding yourself if you think most people would rather live in foggy CBS.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:47 PM
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Nalcor ex-board of directors will be down in the Avalon Mall parking lot protesting with the masses tomorrow, climbing over snowbanks like something fierce.

Everything is falling in place. Soon we'll have to dust off the 'ol copy of operation Valkyrie that Danny wrote up during #flaggate
Seriously this sideshow is gonna hurt our reputation to a rather extreme point.
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:52 PM
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We're broke because they want to live in the middle of nowhere and still have access to city amenities and services. We spend more per capita on government services precisely because our rural areas are massive and want equal services as someone would get on the northeast Avalon.

Sorry, if you want to live in La Scie, then you don't get to live if you have a heart attack. That's what you sign up for.

And 5,000+ includes lots of not-St. John's communities that would keep and expand their services.

I say we keep as far down as Bonavista:



And encourage all the rest to move to one of these.

This list is absolutely arbitrary. You have to do catchment areas(basically the rural version of metros).

FYI, I'm relatively certain that the message sent to government, was that we can no longer reduce costs in rural. As in a hint that we have to start closing sites.

I'd be far more exact on how I know this if the political climate were any more sane, but I promise you there will be some major shut down of services.

Bonavista's court house is a start not a finish.

Be bloody clear, I think part of the levy stradegy is to antagonize the public so no one flinches when they start agressively cutting services to rural.
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:54 PM
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The fuck Deer lake or more properly the humber valley is best location on the island to live.

It's basically part of the Corner Brook metro, got ski resorts, a beatiful lake for summer etc. Obviously the jobs aren't the jobs aren't there. But your kidding yourself if you think most people would rather live in foggy CBS.
That's not what I mean.

People are going to go where the jobs and people are. That's foggy St. John's, and not Deer Lake. The west coast is much nicer than the east, but if people are moving from one place to another because there aren't any jobs, they're probably not moving to west NL.
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 10:59 PM
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Everything is falling in place. Soon we'll have to dust off the 'ol copy of operation Valkyrie that Danny wrote up during #flaggate
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 1:14 PM
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I believe it's about 600 million or so, the increases? Not sure.
I guess what I'm getting at is that to avoid the tax increases of $n, you'll need to make cuts to the tune of $n instead... Sorry if that grossly oversimplified.
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I'd design the cuts to encourage urbanization in communities of at least (or very near) 5,000 or more people. Certainly, everything cut from communities such as Corner Brook, Grand Falls-Windsor, and even Bonavista at the expense of keeping comparable services in villages of a few hundred people would be reversed. Ferries would have to recover at least 65% of their operating costs from fares, as opposed to the 1-4% that is recovered today. Communities could resettle with a vote of 50%+1. I'd keep the deficit reduction levy but design it to be more progressive. Certainly no one making $25K/year would be paying 1/3 the levy of someone making hundreds of thousands. I'd close every hospital and school in rural Newfoundland that's less than an hour from the next, and every single school with more staff than students - no matter the distance to the next. They can do distance education if need be. I'd close the Deer Lake airport. I'd cancel the widening of the Trans Labrador Highway. On and on.
I'll echo what some others have said in that while I agree with those things in principle, I doubt (given the number of people involved) that it might make as huge a dent as expected. NB faces some of the same issues (thought not as acutely or as deeply as NL does at the present moment) and will have to wrestle with this same problem soon. I guess what is needed is a true accounting of what it takes to "support" rural communities... will a "cull" really go far enough? It's easy to say "cut smarter, not more!" and "encourage diversification!" but those are largely platitudes, IMHO... strategic thinking is great and all but takes decades to filter down and won't address NL's current monetary woes.
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 1:21 PM
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I guess what I'm getting at is that to avoid the tax increases of $n, you'll need to make cuts to the tune of $n instead... Sorry if that grossly oversimplified.

I'll echo what some others have said in that while I agree with those things in principle, I doubt (given the number of people involved) that it might make as huge a dent as expected. NB faces some of the same issues (thought not as acutely or as deeply as NL does at the present moment) and will have to wrestle with this same problem soon. I guess what is needed is a true accounting of what it takes to "support" rural communities... will a "cull" really go far enough? It's easy to say "cut smarter, not more!" and "encourage diversification!" but those are largely platitudes, IMHO... strategic thinking is great and all but takes decades to filter down and won't address NL's current monetary woes.
Yeah well relocation etc is a long drawn out process, with the returns only really kicking in a generation later.

You have to give huge pay outs to people who live on worthless land.

You are directly involved in interventionist actions with respect to the real estate market.

It's also partly that people that live in rural are relatively useless. Even if they live in the city, it takes time for them to reach the average productivity levels.

It's a long drawn out effort that takes time to pay off.

This should of been started when we had the oil money to cover the expenses of relocation.

But it's a real tricky mess, at best I'm all for discontinuing paving of roads etc.

It seems like in the 70s it was normal to drive on dirt roads, than for some reason it became a right no matter where the fuck you live(likely because of corruption between the road paving crews and government.
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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 1:50 PM
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Whoa... the Premier actually got something very, very right. I'm a little shocked:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...hall-1.3546399
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 2:12 PM
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Whoa... the Premier actually got something very, very right. I'm a little shocked:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...hall-1.3546399
He's a UofW grad, so it must be a good choice!
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 2:45 PM
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He's brilliant. He's not afraid to make tough decisions but still feels bad about them if people are hurt. I like that, oddly.

*****

Massive anti-austerity protest at Confederation Building this afternoon.

Pic via jeddy1989

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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 2:50 PM
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http://www.thetelegram.com/FlyingPag...earning-100000


Hilarious list, should look at the crazy fucking salaries people at nalcor are getting.

I'm secretly in tears I never thought so many people with diplomas from college of the north atlantic could be making well over 100 grand a year with a government corporation.
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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 3:27 PM
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It seems like in the 70s it was normal to drive on dirt roads, than for some reason it became a right no matter where the fuck you live(likely because of corruption between the road paving crews and government.
My understanding is that while the initial cost is greater, maintenance on paved roads is cheaper. I don't know what the accounting actually favours though; it probably depends on a number of factors.
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 3:39 PM
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Great hire for Nalcor CEO. You're probably not going to get a more qualified individual in Canada, so hopefully this one works out.

A lot of rural services have already been cut or centralized into government's informal 'service centres'. I can remember the old social services department in the 90s had offices in Stephenville, S'ville Crossing, Piccadillly, St. George's, and Codroy Valley. Since that time everything has been consolidated into the Stephenville and we now have one office for 25K people as opposed to 5 offices. Government has taken the approach of staffing clinics in rural communities with nurse practitioners as opposed to doctors - they can give prescriptions, make some diagnoses and referrals. So instead of hospital and 4 clinics with doctors, we have a hospital (admittedly understaffed right now but there's politics behind that) and 3 clinics with nurse practitioners. If you cut the clinics then hospital wait times go up and health suffers. I assume similar processes have taken place on the Burin peninsula, around Gander, Clarenville and GFW.

Government is shutting down 8 Advanced Education and Skills offices, all of which are rural. There is nothing left on the Labrador coast really, and it's likely that their northern peninsula offices will be closed after the September mini-budget.

As far as education goes, most of the schools with tiny student populations have less than 10 years life left anyway. I doubt there are going to be any children in places like McCallum or Grey River soon, and it's not feasible to transport students elsewhere. Let them run their course and they'll be gone soon anyway, the communities themselves will follow (which is really sad because those are the places which probably hold some of our biggest untapped tourism potential). Over the last 15 years or so, so many schools have been amalgamated and centralized that there isn't much more room to cut. If there was a way to place a school and service 5 communities at once, it's been done. 30-45 minute commutes are the norm for many rural students. To get more savings the next step might be to start amalgamating elementary and junior high schools in the metro area. But there's really not much meat left on the bone off the Avalon.

There need to be large cuts to the public service at Confederation building. The system of having secretaries for secretaries, essentially what the west block amounts to, has to stop. Administration at MUN is beyond bloated and should be the focus of significant cuts before anything is done regarding tuition increases.
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  #95  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 3:42 PM
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My understanding is that while the initial cost is greater, maintenance on paved roads is cheaper. I don't know what the accounting actually favours though; it probably depends on a number of factors.
Well I think the deterrent to settlement is the bigger issue. People would of left many of these communities far sooner if it weren't for things like roads. Just imagine trying to sell a house on a dirt road? Imagine telling your wife "oh yeah lets go back to where I grew up, by the way roads haven't been invented yet"
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  #96  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 5:04 PM
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There need to be large cuts to the public service at Confederation building. The system of having secretaries for secretaries, essentially what the west block amounts to, has to stop. Administration at MUN is beyond bloated and should be the focus of significant cuts before anything is done regarding tuition increases.
This one is the absolute worst. When a document has to pass through 10 hands to make it from A to B a few buildings over, you know there's trouble. The government has slashed funding to the university, but ultimately the university gets to decide how it's money is spent. It'd be wiser to hold on to the tuition freeze and let go of the dead weight. I'm not sure why there are so many protests from the federation of students off campus, this ball lies in the field of the university now.

It's a dangerous cycle at MUN though. Unions aren't doing anything at all except negotiating a pay raise every year, and when employees get it they smile and pat the union on the back. There are a lot of issues these unions need to be addressing at the university, but they're not. A lot of people are unhappy with how things are, but unfortunately they're held hostage by the folk who are happy with the union getting them more money. A huge revolt could be in the near future, and it won't be pretty.
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  #97  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 5:09 PM
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B'ys, this is it. Once this starts, it's over. This government will fall.



And, uhh, not just speak out against the budget. Presented a petition to bring it down. Well done, girl! You've come a long way. Doesn't matter what way government goes (judging by the boos Paul Davis got when he spoke at today's protest on Confederation Hill, it could go NDP), you'll get back in, Pam.

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  #98  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 5:14 PM
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Curious: why start a new thread? There is typically so much interesting dialogue in these threads, and once they're archived it's pretty unlikely that people will ever go back and look at them relative to if the thread is allowed to continue.
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  #99  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 5:15 PM
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Curious: why start a new thread? There is typically so much interesting dialogue in these threads, and once they're archived it's pretty unlikely that people will ever go back and look at them relative to if the thread is allowed to continue.
We cap thread lengths at 10,000 posts. Or try to at least.
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  #100  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 5:46 PM
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The economy here in Southwestern Ontario is really doing so much better as of late, average home prices in the Windsor area are up 11% from one year ago! Bidding wars with multiple offers are very common now, lots of new home construction as well. A nice situation to be in after basically stagnating for almost a decade!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...p-11-1.3546608

http://www.royallepagebinder.com/art...t-for-how-long
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