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  #201  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 3:37 PM
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The second tower of the NCR campus looks to be a go. It's still in the design phase but is expected to be completed by 2019 and help bring 5300 jobs to Midtown.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...ill-bring.html
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  #202  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nature's calling View Post
The second tower of the NCR campus looks to be a go. It's still in the design phase but is expected to be completed by 2019 and help bring 5300 jobs to Midtown.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...ill-bring.html
Can someone with a construction background answer this:
In the ABC article it stated phase II of the project would be 250,000 square feet (Office + Retail) and the cost is $140 Million. I was like WTF.

Doing some math: Average building cost per sqft ($146.11) x building size (250,000 sqft) = $36,527,500.

How the hell is this a $140 Million building? Is it made out of gold?

http://evstudio.com/cost-per-square-...ion-by-region/
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  #203  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sbgt92 View Post
The superblock created by the GA 400 extension, buckhead loop and Peachtree St is a missed opportunity. It was developed as a traditional office park back in the early 90s with no attempt to create any kind of urban fabric. Does anyone know how the master plan was originally conceived? Same for the area bounded by the loop, 400 and piedmont. Pretty disappointing.
That was the city's vision of urban planning back then.

The SPI was created in 1996 in an effort to foster TOD around the Buckhead and Lenox train stations. Break up the superblocks, activate street fronts, etc. It was updated it a few years ago if I'm not mistaken.

It seems to me the 800 pound gorilla(s) up there are the Loop itself and the big shopping centers. You can carve things up like they did at Terminus and to some extent at Tower Place, but there are a lot of vested interests.
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  #204  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 4:56 PM
GeorgiaPeanuts GeorgiaPeanuts is offline
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Here is a siteplan for the new ga400 park proposal




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  #205  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:25 PM
Frankster87 Frankster87 is offline
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Originally Posted by RobMidtowner View Post
It would be better to cap it in phases if money is the issue than to move forward with something that would have to be demolished to eventually cap it in the future IMO.
This. Speaking of which, what will become of the current pedestrian bridge?
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  #206  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:26 PM
arctk2014 arctk2014 is offline
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Can someone with a construction background answer this:
In the ABC article it stated phase II of the project would be 250,000 square feet (Office + Retail) and the cost is $140 Million. I was like WTF.

Doing some math: Average building cost per sqft ($146.11) x building size (250,000 sqft) = $36,527,500.

How the hell is this a $140 Million building? Is it made out of gold?

http://evstudio.com/cost-per-square-...ion-by-region/
First of all the data you're quoting for citing the cost/SF is from 2009 (the economy was still in the Great Recession).

The construction costs should also include design & construction services as well- not just material construction costs.
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  #207  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 5:29 PM
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It would be better to cap it in phases if money is the issue than to move forward with something that would have to be demolished to eventually cap it in the future IMO.
I agree.
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  #208  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 6:38 PM
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These storage places are stating to get fancy, lol.
Looks a little better than that storage facility in Midtown, off Juniper between Ponce and North...oh wait, that's the Proton Lab.
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  #209  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by arctk2014 View Post
First of all the data you're quoting for citing the cost/SF is from 2009 (the economy was still in the Great Recession).

The construction costs should also include design & construction services as well- not just material construction costs.
It might have been more helpful to suggest another source. With that said, the cost have not gone up 4X since 2009.

Now can someone with a background in construction "constructively" answer my question? Thanks in advance.
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  #210  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
It might have been more helpful to suggest another source. With that said, the cost have not gone up 4X since 2009.

Now can someone with a background in construction "constructively" answer my question? Thanks in advance.
Assuming your question is, "How the hell is this a $140 Million building? Is it made out of gold?"

NCF is investing $145 million into Phase II, which is 250,000+ SF. One would assume this involves expenses such as purchasing the land, interior build out (since they will be occupying the building), and as arctk2014 said, design and construction services. Then factor in your assume material costs, which have steadily risen, and labor costs which are very high right now due to a low labor pool.
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  #211  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 8:03 PM
arctk2014 arctk2014 is offline
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
It might have been more helpful to suggest another source. With that said, the cost have not gone up 4X since 2009.

Now can someone with a background in construction "constructively" answer my question? Thanks in advance.
Sorry was trying to respond during my lunch break. It's a bit more difficult to go into details but a lot has to do with rising construction costs and labor shortages - particularly skilled labor that's had a huge deficit.

I would also assume higher costs associated more than likely include interior build-outs since it's a company's HQ rather than spec office build-out (core and shell).

The specifics cited for construction costs might also be folding in the debt for the land, etc for them trying to get bonds, approvals, etc.
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  #212  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 8:06 PM
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Anything under $200/SF for a single story office building in the burbs is quite optimistic. My most recent low bid came back at $210/SF, in Jacksonville. And our management fees are on top of that.

I imagine it's not any cheaper to build a big skyscraper in Midtown Atlanta. And is there a parking garage component to the project that isn't included in the square footage?
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  #213  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by testarossa50 View Post
Anything under $200/SF for a single story office building in the burbs is quite optimistic. My most recent low bid came back at $210/SF, in Jacksonville. And our management fees are on top of that.

I imagine it's not any cheaper to build a big skyscraper in Midtown Atlanta. And is there a parking garage component to the project that isn't included in the square footage?
If we use $250/SF that would only be $62,500,000. Still less than half the projected cost. Even considering the interior build out and parking garage cost this number seems very inflated.

I hope the State of GA is not giving them tax breaks based on the estimated cost of the investment, but real cost.
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Last edited by Atlanta3000; Sep 13, 2016 at 9:34 PM.
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  #214  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 9:12 PM
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Park Over 400

I think people are confusing the Park Over 400 with Piedmont Park. There intended purposes are very different. Piedmont Park serves as a park for the City of Atlanta. Not to mention, there is a large population in neighborhoods surrounding the park. The Park Over 400 is in an office park with a limited population of residents within walking distance. I live in a house behind Phipps and I cannot imagine walking down Lenox Rd (with dogs) to go to there. Therefore, do you really think residents from other parts of Buckhead will drive to it? Where will they park?

I see the Park Over 400 primary purpose is to provide connectivity to Path400 and as an outdoor space for the workers in Buckhead and residents who live in the immediate area. I also think what is proposed meets those goals and then some.

Concerning the pollution/air quality, completely capping 1/2 mile of 400 would not dramatically improve air quality. Pollution tends to stagnate over large urban areas, especially in the summer with humidity. The good news is this will substantially decrease over the next 10 - 20 years as electric cars become the standard.
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  #215  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
If we use $250/SF that would only be $62,500,000. Still less than half the projected cost. Even considering the interior build out and parking garage cost this number seem very inflated.

I hope the State of GA is not giving them tax breaks based on the estimated cost of the investment, but real cost.
The article never said it was the cost of construction. It said it was NCR's "investment" in the second tower. I'd assume that number includes projected number of employees (stated in the article) and their salaries over a period of 5 years. All of that would be part of the investment for which NCR will seek tax credits.

Correction - I clearly did not do any calculations before I sent that last message. It would not encompass the salary for 1,800 employees over 5 years. The point remains that what NCR counts as its investment is not limited to the cost of construction. Would the completed second tower be valued at or above $140 million? Perhaps that is the better way to determine whether their statement of a $140 million investment seems accurate.

Last edited by daharris80; Sep 13, 2016 at 9:28 PM.
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  #216  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 9:29 PM
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The article never said it was the cost of construction. It said it was NCR's "investment" in the second tower. I'd assume that number includes projected number of employees (stated in the article) and their salaries over a period of 5 years. All of that would be part of the investment for which NCR will seek tax credits.
Interesting perspective, but the math is still way off. 1,800 (New Employees) X $200K (Salary + Benefits) = $270,000,000 Annual Payroll. That is for 1 year not 5.

NCR is leasing the building from Cousins Properties (Owner/Contractor). So you can't factor the cost of the building into NCR's investment.
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  #217  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by arctk2014 View Post
First of all the data you're quoting for citing the cost/SF is from 2009 (the economy was still in the Great Recession).

The construction costs should also include design & construction services as well- not just material construction costs.
A tech campus like this could easily be $250-$300/ sf-- plus soft costs-- architects, lawyers-- plus furniture and equipment. The area probably did not include parking either.
Incentives are generally based on number of jobs created, etc.
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  #218  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 10:19 PM
arctk2014 arctk2014 is offline
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Originally Posted by Atlanta3000 View Post
Interesting perspective, but the math is still way off. 1,800 (New Employees) X $200K (Salary + Benefits) = $270,000,000 Annual Payroll. That is for 1 year not 5.

NCR is leasing the building from Cousins Properties (Owner/Contractor). So you can't factor the cost of the building into NCR's investment.
This isn't the proper forum to question numbers and request back-up accounting number cited by an article in the ABC. The numbers may or may not be construction-specific because "investments" into a HQ facility are more complex than pure construction costs and pure employee labor costs. These numbers are projections that probably include future growth for bond issuance(s), tenant build-out and leasing costs, etc. They've already been through this for the first phase with Invest Atlanta approving a bond package worth $314 million in order to get NCR to relocate to Midtown (not sure if NCR was already anticipating the 2nd phase quite yet here). http://www.ajc.com/news/business/inv...-ncr-hq/nmQJM/

Per another press release source
"
Quote:
NCR, the Georgia Department of Economic Development, and Invest Atlanta have agreed on additional incentives that will see NCR bring over 1,800 skilled professionals to Georgia over the next five years and invest $145 million in the second tower.
Source: http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Campus-Atlanta
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  #219  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2016, 12:06 AM
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It now looks to me like 22 14th is crawling, and I mean slowly upward.
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  #220  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2016, 2:36 AM
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It now looks to me like 22 14th is crawling, and I mean slowly upward.
It should move a lot faster once the parking portion is finished they're currently on the seventh floor of the ten-story parking and don't forget before they even went vertical they had to deal with a lot of rock similar to what Atlantic house went through
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