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  #81  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 6:48 PM
ue ue is online now
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
It's automated-ish. The main problem in having any meaningful automation is that currently the signalling currently can't tell where a train is other than to say that it is either at or between certain stations. That means that a train can't leave until the next one has left its station because if the one before it has to make an emergency stop between stations, it would get rammed at full speed. So frequency is limited to run time between the two furthest stations.

And then, as you rightly point out, there remains the issue of platform capacity which is already problematic at several stations.

So before any interlining can take place, the metro needs to be automated, which can't happen until all the tunnels, trains and command centres are outfitted with new, proprietary signalling. Then the busiest stations have to be re-excavated (since all metro stations are underground) to have their platforms widened to accommodate the increased congestion caused by people waiting.

So it's possible, but it'd just be very, very expensive. For the cost, you'd do better to just build parallel metro or LRT lines to alleviate the pressure.
Which is what Montreal has essentially done with the green and orange lines downtown. It just seems like it'd make more sense to not have two separate lines a couple blocks apart servicing essentially the same area when it could be on one tunnel and allow for easier transferring. Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton have this.

Anyways, what you're saying makes sense with the proprietary technology of the Metro and issues with transmitting location between trains, especially with how high frequency the metro is at peak hours. Berri-UQAM is nightmareish around 8am.

I just thought it was odd the duplication of green and orange in Downtown Montreal as well as how the yellow line is basically Montreal's stubway, when it could probably run alongside orange line to Laval.
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  #82  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
Which is what Montreal has essentially done with the green and orange lines downtown. It just seems like it'd make more sense to not have two separate lines a couple blocks apart servicing essentially the same area when it could be on one tunnel and allow for easier transferring. Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton have this.
I find that Montreal has better downtown and inner-city rapid transit coverage than Vancouver. A lot of trips originating more or less in downtown or inner-city Vancouver are not well-served by the SkyTrain, and it used to be even worse before the Canada Line opened (the fact that it went along a new path rather than feeding into the same route was a big benefit, although transfers could have been set up better). Areas like the the West End and Broadway corridor have bad rapid transit coverage, and people who live or work in those areas usually have to add long walks to their commute or take a bus.

The Millennium line "loop" also adds transfers to common trips.

Another problem is that Vancouver's system has very little redundancy. Any hiccup along the Commercial-Waterfront stretch causes major headaches.

Standards of what is or isn't good transit are pretty arbitrary but I feel like a many common trips in Vancouver are super slow regardless of mode of transportation.
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  #83  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 10:21 PM
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Having discrete metro lines servicing the same area is of course much more expensive though so I think future transit developments will avoid duplication in favour of interlining.
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  #84  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
Having discrete metro lines servicing the same area is of course much more expensive though so I think future transit developments will avoid duplication in favour of interlining.
and that is exactly what REM is proposing to do.

Interlining is much more cost effective than building parallel lines and works until the line is approaching capacity.

It also avoids multi-transfer trips that passengers hate and that will in the long run limit ridership.
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  #85  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 6:36 PM
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  #86  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 8:10 PM
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Kingston LRT Centre for Excellence?

Are they for real?
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  #87  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 9:28 PM
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I'll take that as my cue. I've heard that Bombardier made mincemeat of Metrolinx in court this week. Accurate?
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  #88  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I've heard that Bombardier made mincemeat of Metrolinx in court this week. Accurate?
What the press reports and what the judge thinks are sometimes different things. It's not a clear-cut case for either side andI doubt the outcome will make either party particularly happy.

The Judge could force Metrolinx to take full delivery and award Metrolinx $100M in damages for the delays or might let Metrolinx out of the agreement and still charge them $200M for the work Bombardier put into the contract thus far (zero vehicles for $200M).

Last edited by rbt; Mar 24, 2017 at 10:52 PM.
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  #89  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 12:49 AM
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The Judge could force Metrolinx to take full delivery and award Metrolinx $100M in damages for the delays
No he couldn't.

The penalties spelled out in the contract call for Bombardier to pay $1,500/late vehicle per day. The judge can't override the contract.
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  #90  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Kingston LRT Centre for Excellence?

Are they for real?
Reminds me of this

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  #91  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Kingston LRT Centre for Excellence?

Are they for real?
Yes. That is where Vancouver Sky train was invented/tested. From that technology Vancouver ended up with the worlds first fully automated transit system. Linear Induction technology etc. What is weird is Ontario had little interest in Advanced-LRT.

Unclear why they are taking those old-school style LRT train out there.
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  #92  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 6:23 PM
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I find that Montreal has better downtown and inner-city rapid transit coverage than Vancouver. A lot of trips originating more or less in downtown or inner-city Vancouver are not well-served by the SkyTrain, and it used to be even worse before the Canada Line opened (the fact that it went along a new path rather than feeding into the same route was a big benefit, although transfers could have been set up better). Areas like the the West End and Broadway corridor have bad rapid transit coverage, and people who live or work in those areas usually have to add long walks to their commute or take a bus.

The Millennium line "loop" also adds transfers to common trips.

Another problem is that Vancouver's system has very little redundancy. Any hiccup along the Commercial-Waterfront stretch causes major headaches.

Standards of what is or isn't good transit are pretty arbitrary but I feel like a many common trips in Vancouver are super slow regardless of mode of transportation.
I agree redundancy is an issue. Having the Millennium Line on its new route helps a little bit,

Not certain trains are best technology to cross connect false creek. Integrating the water taxi service may be a better option.
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  #93  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
Yes. That is where Vancouver Sky train was invented/tested. From that technology Vancouver ended up with the worlds first fully automated transit system. Linear Induction technology etc. What is weird is Ontario had little interest in Advanced-LRT.

Unclear why they are taking those old-school style LRT train out there.
They are just tanks on wheels right now. They need to have computer systems installed so they actually propel themselves. Apparently, they will have a degree of automation/ and/or ATC within the 11km tunnelled section of the LRT. Insertnamehere would probably know for sure.
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  #94  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 11:09 PM
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Kingston LRT Centre for Excellence is also in a very isolated location, in a rural area a fair ways outside of Kingston:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Bom....7225933?hl=en

I've never understood why.
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  #95  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 3:32 AM
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Downtown Montreal {and Toronto} have much better downtown subway service.

Vancouver was late to the RT game and much of the network was focused on bringing suburbanites downtown which was neccessary as Vancouver has no urban freeways. Montreal and Toronto have much larger downtowns and Vancouver's downtown being on a basic inlet makes thru -way transit not optional.

Vancouver also has a much more decentralized employment base where the percentage of people working downtown is much smaller than Tor/Mon as well as having a relatively small student population.
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  #96  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Kingston LRT Centre for Excellence is also in a very isolated location, in a rural area a fair ways outside of Kingston:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Bom....7225933?hl=en

I've never understood why.
Far out in Kingston is relative term.
It is about 10-15 mins from the middle of the city, and 15-20 to Queens. There is a few heavy industry companies in that area.

I did a co-op at the place when I went to queens.
The one issue is, you really do need a car to go work for a place that makes rapid transit.
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  #97  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
Reminds me of this

Haha exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
Yes. That is where Vancouver Sky train was invented/tested. From that technology Vancouver ended up with the worlds first fully automated transit system. Linear Induction technology etc. What is weird is Ontario had little interest in Advanced-LRT.
Not knocking the centre's achievements, just the name. What an awful name.
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  #98  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 10:26 PM
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Interesting new info about the REM today with QC's budget



Quote:
REVENUE-SHARING MECHANISM

CDPQ Infra’s priority return threshold for its equity investment has been set at 8%.

The priority return threshold is the rate of return that must be achieved by the majority shareholder, CDPQ Infra, to trigger the production of returns for minority shareholders. The priority return is not necessarily the same as CDPQ Infra’s anticipated rate of return for the project. An estimate of CDPQ Infra’s anticipated rate of return is provided in a later section of this document.

Until CDPQ Infra’s 8% priority return threshold is met, all REM project dividends are paid to CDPQ Infra. Once this threshold is met, dividends will mostly (72%) be paid to minority shareholders – the governments of Québec and Canada – until they achieve the minimum target rate of return of 3.7%, as provided by the agreement. The targeted return of 3.7% is equivalent to the average borrowing costs of the Government of Québec’s entire debt. The REM project is the first public transit project where the government will recoup its capital investment and its average borrowing cost.

Once minority shareholders have reached the targeted rate of return, dividends will be paid in accordance with ownership percentages: 51% for CDPQ Infra and 24.5% for each level of government.
Quote:
In all return scenarios, the REM’s cost is kept between $0.69 to 0.72 per passenger-kilometer. This competitive cost is the result of ongoing project optimization, efficient project management and CDPQ Infra’s choice of technology.

The REM’s cost per passenger-kilometer covers both capital costs (e.g. infrastructure, including tracks and train cars), operating costs and life cycle costs. At $0.66 per passenger-kilometer, the average costs of existing networks cover operating expenses and only a portion of capital costs.

The Greater Montréal area will therefore get the equivalent of a second métro for an increase of 2 to 4% of the ARTM’s budget, assuming constant ridership.

In the event that ridership forecasts are exceeded by 15% and more, the cost per passenger-kilometer will be reduced by 20%, to a range of $0.55 to 0.58. Beyond 40%, only a sum equivalent to user fees will be billed to the ARTM, with no impact on return scenarios.
https://www.cdpqinfra.com/sites/defa...ere_no2_en.pdf
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  #99  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:00 PM
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Yikes! 70c/km? That means that someone in Deux-Montagnes will be paying more than twice what they are now, from $9 to almost $25!

I get that it's better service, but I certainly wouldn't be able to afford a $50 return ticket for an evening in town... And I can only imagine what the monthly rate must be. Currently, AMT's adult train-only passes are about 20x the price of a single ticket. If the same ratio were to apply, that means that the REM would be over $500 per month.

Even Barrie, 100km from Toronto, only charges $14 per way, $250 for a month. If the CDPQ were running the line, it would be a whopping $70 per trip, $1400 per month, $16 800 for a year.
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  #100  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:06 PM
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Yikes! 70c/km? That means that someone in Deux-Montagnes will be paying more than twice what they are now, from $9 to almost $25!

I get that they have to turn a profit, but I certainly wouldn't be able to afford a $50 return ticket for an evening in town...
that's not what people will have to pay.

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At $0.66 per passenger-kilometer, the average costs of existing networks cover operating expenses and only a portion of capital costs.
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