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  #41  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 5:04 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Man, don't want to step into this topic, because there is no clear answer...

It feels like a entire package of things must be done.

First and foremost, our entire culture needs to be overhauled, starting from school ages. More focus on the strength of community (and respecting it in return) while also learning / building better skills for personal responsibilities.

More facilities and programs need to be established for those with mental disabilities / mental health problems.

Lower level drugs need to be legalized and regulated (very happy that pot will be by next year), but on the flip side I actually feel that stricter laws and harsher penalties are needed for extremely hazardous drugs (and by that I mean for pushers and producers, not end users). There are some things that should not be legal for general recreational use.

More money for education and awareness programs.

Increased social services, but also delivered at times with a little bit more "tough love" for extreme addicts (I actually do support forced rehab).

Living for years in Japan I am sometimes embarrassed by the choices Canadians and Canadian culture in general makes. I teach at high schools here and there have essentially never been drug problems or even the idea of a student over dosing on some bullshit. I think this also comes down to stronger family units in Asian culture (and I work a a low income / low grade high school).

While I do feel that Japans laws on drugs are too strict (even possession can get you 5 years in prison) maybe our youth in Canada are lacking some discipline?

I guess in the end I really don't know how to fix it, and in the end there likely is no magic bullet for doing so, but maybe at least some aspects of what I have said could help the situation.

I also write this as someone who suffered from chronic depression for years, yet was well educated enough to never be tempted to use illegal drugs as a crutch / numb my problem. Also I have had family members spend years living the life of addicts in Vancouver, including the DTES, and each them now have pulled themselves out of the fire, and while social services, family, and therapy did help big time, they were really only able to do so once they stopped blaming other people for their problems and took responsibility for themselves.
A lot of truth here. The erosion of local communities and the associated personal support network is probably contributing to our society's inability to deal with these sorts of widespread distributed social problems.

I am no fan of religion or church, but those institutions did serve a purpose in connecting communities and providing a thick layer of social interaction that allowed problems like this to be dealt with more efficiently. As we as society leave that chapter of things behind, there does seem to be a bit of a gap as families turn inward and lose those community connections.

A big part of the drug problem in general is that it is bigger than all of us. We can discuss online till our fingers bleed about what we "should" be doing as a society, including treating addicts like humans, cutting off the incentive for illegal distribution in the first place, and providing rehabilitation facilities and professional care for recovering addicts. But look around at where we are as a society in terms of our relationship with drugs. Marijuana is still illegal. People still look down their noses at drug addicts, and in talking with people in daily life will be far more likely to blame the addict for their problems over the distributor.

We are such a long way politically to go before we start treating this topic with the maturity and respect it deserves. The most we can all do is try to talk about it in our day to day lives and try to get people to see the other perspectives. But it is a long uphill battle and to be quite honest, the people who have the power politically to make a difference are more worried about education, health care, and tax cuts than they are about these "out of sight out of mind" mental health and drug addiction issues. Unfortunately, there will be a lot of senseless death and forgotten victims along the road.
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  #42  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:08 AM
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  #43  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:14 AM
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Oof!

Vancouver’s drug problem is so bad that pigeons are making nests out of needles: police

Tristin Hopper | May 3, 2017 5:55 PM ET

"In a testament to the sheer scale and concentration of Vancouver’s drug problem, a pigeon living in the city’s Downtown Eastside was found to have built its nest entirely out of used hypodermic needles.

The nest was found in the sink of a room of a “single room occupancy” — an official term for low-cost hotels in the neighbourhood frequented by addicts.

The image was posted to the Twitter account of Vancouver Police Superintendent Michelle Davey, a veteran of policing strategies and planning in the neighbourhood.

“Sad reality of the opioid crisis,” she wrote in an accompanying note."





http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...out-of-needles
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  #44  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 3:47 AM
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Sam Sullivan (Vancouver's former quadriplegic mayor) had an interesting opinion on addicts. He believed from what he observed as he worked among them that they were not just addicted.. not even sick - they were disabled. And not just disabled by the "addiction" but differently wired in the brain which lead them into the addiction.

I tend to agree with him.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarah89 View Post
Sam Sullivan (Vancouver's former quadriplegic mayor) had an interesting opinion on addicts. He believed from what he observed as he worked among them that they were not just addicted.. not even sick - they were disabled. And not just disabled by the "addiction" but differently wired in the brain which lead them into the addiction.

I tend to agree with him.
There's been a lot of debate in psychiatry about whether an addictive personality exists. It makes sense- most of the people I have worked with who struggle with addiction usually have more than one vice. Addictions in general are linked to thrill-seeking behaviours which are intrinsically linked to impulsivity- the more impulsive a person is, the more likely they are to experiment with drugs. Throw in the attributes of an addictive personality and it's a recipe for disaster.

Just a comment about Fentanyl. In Manitoba, we are seeing a lot of Fentanyl overdoses not just from those who are addicted, but those who experiment. They are finding that many recreational drugs are being cut with Fentanyl. It's showing up in Cocaine, Methamphetamine, Heroin and it's now pervasive because it's so easy to ship from China. If people aren't concerned, they should be because it's a real health crisis in North America right now.
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  #46  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jammon View Post
There's been a lot of debate in psychiatry about whether an addictive personality exists. It makes sense- most of the people I have worked with who struggle with addiction usually have more than one vice. Addictions in general are linked to thrill-seeking behaviours which are intrinsically linked to impulsivity- the more impulsive a person is, the more likely they are to experiment with drugs. Throw in the attributes of an addictive personality and it's a recipe for disaster.

Just a comment about Fentanyl. In Manitoba, we are seeing a lot of Fentanyl overdoses not just from those who are addicted, but those who experiment. They are finding that many recreational drugs are being cut with Fentanyl. It's showing up in Cocaine, Methamphetamine, Heroin and it's now pervasive because it's so easy to ship from China. If people aren't concerned, they should be because it's a real health crisis in North America right now.
That's the root of the crisis here too. Few people willingly take fentanyl. Homeless addicts have of course been hit very hard, but casual weekend drug users have also been seriously impacted primarily because of cutting with cocaine. Very scary.
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  #47  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:48 PM
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I normally don't like a law and order approach with drugs, but I wonder if dealers who knowingly cut their drugs with fentanyl should be charged with murder when someone dies?

The problem is fentanyl is cheap and super potent. All they need to do is mix a few grains with other drugs to give it some extra kick. Unfortunately there is hardly any difference between a normal dose and a lethal dose of this stuff.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 12:46 PM
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Latest updates this week are that NL has the highest rate of opioid addiction in the country and the highest serious overdose rate (73/100,000 compared to BC's 25/100,000). However, for as yet unidentified reasons, we have one of the lowest death rates. Fentanyl has been here for about 4 years.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Latest updates this week are that NL has the highest rate of opioid addiction in the country and the highest serious overdose rate (73/100,000 compared to BC's 25/100,000). However, for as yet unidentified reasons, we have one of the lowest death rates. Fentanyl has been here for about 4 years.
To give an idea of how severe our opioid problem is:

I've only lived in 3 different homes since moving to St. John's 10 years ago. During the moving process, I've come across opioid's at these new properties twice. The first time, while moving furniture in the front door, I spotted what ended up being an empty bottle of prescription methadone on the front lawn. At the second (and my current place) there is a bottle of Tylenol 3's (with a few pills left) in the backyard that I discovered within the first week of moving in. I threw them in the corner of the lawn, they're still there.

And I live in what people would consider "good" neighbourhoods. I suppose good is relative; people's addictions are better masked here than they are down in places like the Cabot Street or Springdale Street neighbourhoods.

Once oxyneo and oxycontin become harder to find, things may get worse. People here haven't caught on yet that heroin will essentially do the same thing (though I hear that heroin use is really starting to take off)
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  #50  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:01 PM
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That's probably what's changing now. That last woman who died was an upper-lower class mother of three who thought she was doing heroin. If people here are new to switching from oxy to heroin, that could be why suddenly we're having deaths.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:04 PM
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Access and the sheer power of the drugs available these days makes this problem so much greater than it ever has been. The problem from a public apathy point of view is people aren't going to give a shit unless it hits them directly at home. The social conscious we had 20-30 years ago was so much greater than it is today. People acted. Today people text/tweet and post vigorously about how concerned they are but don;' actually act in any sort of meaningful way.
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  #52  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:10 PM
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My aunt died of a fentanyl overdose two years ago and a few months ago (just before Xmas) my uncle completely shattered his ankle while he was high on fentanyl, he passed out because of low blood pressure. Four months later he's out of the hospital and slowly weaning off of the fentanyl patches, he's been on it for years now. Why would a doctor give him fentanyl for a back pain? Who knows, should be for chronic cancer patients only.

Doctors needs to stop giving out so many opioids. Last year I had a horrible ear infection and my doctor gave me percocet, percocet! I didn't realize it until the pharmacist told me, I was expecting some ear drops and antibiotics.
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  #53  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
My aunt died of a fentanyl overdose two years ago and a few months ago (just before Xmas) my uncle completely shattered his ankle while he was high on fentanyl, he passed out because of low blood pressure. Four months later he's out of the hospital and slowly weaning off of the fentanyl patches, he's been on it for years now. Why would a doctor give him fentanyl for a back pain? Who knows, should be for chronic cancer patients only.

Doctors needs to stop giving out so many opioids. Last year I had a horrible ear infection and my doctor gave me percocet, percocet! I didn't realize it until the pharmacist told me, I was expecting some ear drops and antibiotics.
There's a piece in the G&M by a woman who has been using prescription fentanyl (patch) for 12 years for chronic pain from inflammatory arthritis.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini...ticle34931791/
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  #54  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rotten42 View Post
Access and the sheer power of the drugs available these days makes this problem so much greater than it ever has been. The problem from a public apathy point of view is people aren't going to give a shit unless it hits them directly at home. The social conscious we had 20-30 years ago was so much greater than it is today. People acted. Today people text/tweet and post vigorously about how concerned they are but don;' actually act in any sort of meaningful way.
Is it really that much worse than the '70s, '80s and '90s, though? I mean, it seems that every few years there's a new scourge (crack epidemic, Oxycontin, meth, now Fentanyl) but has the percentage of people who are addicted to drugs really increased? I think most stats show that there has been a decline in both alcohol and drug use since the 1970s.

It is a popular myth that people today don't care (or care superficially) - rehab programs are far better and a lot more available than in decades past.

Also, what can you expect an average person to do regarding this? An addict will do precisely one of two things: 1. Decide to quit seriously or 2. Continue to use until they die. Until the addict wants to quit, there's nothing society or an average person can do.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:29 PM
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My aunt died of a fentanyl overdose two years ago and a few months ago (just before Xmas) my uncle completely shattered his ankle while he was high on fentanyl, he passed out because of low blood pressure. Four months later he's out of the hospital and slowly weaning off of the fentanyl patches, he's been on it for years now. Why would a doctor give him fentanyl for a back pain? Who knows, should be for chronic cancer patients only.

Doctors needs to stop giving out so many opioids. Last year I had a horrible ear infection and my doctor gave me percocet, percocet! I didn't realize it until the pharmacist told me, I was expecting some ear drops and antibiotics.
Absolutely agree. Opioid pain killers need to be a last resort, not a primary plan of attack for pain management. Pain from an ear infection can be handled with extra strength ibuprofen.

When I was in high school I had 2 teeth extracted (on two occasions, and not wisdom teeth) to make room for some orthodontic work. The first time I was prescribed percocet for pain management, however I tried extra strength advil and it was more than adequate; honestly the pain was fairly mild to moderate and really did not require such a powerful drug. I'm sure some people would have taken the prescription none the less, even if the pain was manageable. Needless to say, I declined the prescription at the second dentist trip.
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  #56  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:30 PM
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There's a piece in the G&M by a woman who has been using prescription fentanyl (patch) for 12 years for chronic pain from inflammatory arthritis.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini...ticle34931791/
"like most chronic-pain patients on fentanyl, I wear transdermal patches (which are tricky to trade and use on the street)."

Bullshit! Uh without giving out too much information, all you need to do is boil and get a needle.

"We should all be glad, not shocked, that Canada is the world’s second-biggest user of opioids per capita."

Wow! So proud. Did you also know Canada is the only country in the world where you can buy Tylenol 1 (has codeine, an opioid) without prescription.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
When I was in high school I had 2 teeth extracted (on two occasions, and not wisdom teeth) to make room for some orthodontic work. The first time I was prescribed percocet for pain management, however I tried extra strength advil and it was more than adequate; honestly the pain was fairly mild to moderate and really did not require such a powerful drug. I'm sure some people would have taken the prescription none the less, even if the pain was manageable. Needless to say, I declined the prescription at the second dentist trip.

I was just about to type a similar story in response to Steeltown's post. I got a tooth extracted a few years ago as a delayed result of a bike accident. I was prescribed rather large scripts of both tylenol 3s and percocet(!!) because I was assured I would be in intense pain. I decided not to even get the percocet because I didn't have a drug plan at the time but held on to the script just in case. Turns out I didn't even need the tylenol 3 and was fine with advil. After a few days it didn't really even hurt at all.
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  #58  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rotten42 View Post
Access and the sheer power of the drugs available these days makes this problem so much greater than it ever has been. The problem from a public apathy point of view is people aren't going to give a shit unless it hits them directly at home. The social conscious we had 20-30 years ago was so much greater than it is today. People acted. Today people text/tweet and post vigorously about how concerned they are but don;' actually act in any sort of meaningful way.
What do you expect people to do about it?

It's hardly a secret that street drugs are bad news, and governments pour untold millions into treatment and prevention. Yet the problem lingers. It's clearly hard to stop someone with self-destructive impulses.
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  #59  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 4:28 PM
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I am always shocked at how easy it is to get a prescription for most opiods. I was offered some pretty good stuff when I had some surgery on my hand. I ended up with T3s. One does me in for a day.

My wife has chronic pain related to a couple of medical issues. Until recently she was on 30mg of Oxicontine and Oxyneo. She was slowly removed from it (took 6 moths of doctors supervised assistance) to get off of it. She is now using Medical Marijuana. (80% CBD).

The ease of getting any opiods is stunning.

A close friend is a paramedic, most of his calls for opiod overdoses are in the suburbs. Yes he gets street calls but the numbers are high for the suburbs. And as he says its usually the soccer moms.

Neighbor works with the coroners office. Most of her days now are signing off on ODs. Again most are coming from the suburbs lately.
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  #60  
Old Posted May 12, 2017, 1:01 PM
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The attention on this now here is intense. Suddenly.


http://vocm.com/news/why-would-drug-...its-so-deadly/

It's come up in the House of Assembly all week. PC opposition is pushing for free naloxone kits to be provided to pharmacies and schools instead of the governing Liberals policy of providing them upon request.
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