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  #41  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Ontario Soccer Center had a small 2,000 seat soccer field (the kind you find at most colleges/universities), until TFC ponied up $5 mil to convert it into a 5,000 seat stadium. It is now the official playing ground for TFC's professional division 2 team.
Nope.

I asked for a stadium of 5000 seats for $5 million, not adding on seats to an existing stadium....
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  #42  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 11:52 AM
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Nope.

I asked for a stadium of 5000 seats for $5 million, not adding on seats to an existing stadium....
If you read my previous posts, nowhere did I say building a stadium from scratch, i specifically mentioned using an existing field such as a school soccer field. Building one from scratch is irrelevant to the viability of getting a soccer specific stadium, essentially it will be doable for every team.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 12:37 PM
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If you read my previous posts, nowhere did I say building a stadium from scratch, i specifically mentioned using an existing field such as a school soccer field. Building one from scratch is irrelevant to the viability of getting a soccer specific stadium, essentially it will be doable for every team.
Yes and no where did I respond directly to your post. I'm merely stating you can't build a NEW soccer stadium from scratch for $5 million seating 5,000+.

So how about you practice what you preach and read carefully.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:25 PM
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Sadly Winnipeg doesn't really have a small stadium to expand at a reasonable cost. The only facilities that even come close are University Stadium which is a super-basic concrete grandstand with hardly any facilities and a crap field. Plus it is used by the university for track and field so I think that would limit the things that could be done with it. Then there's the Winnipeg Soccer Complex which is basically a glorified community centre... doing something there would mean starting from scratch and I just can't see that happening.

The only possible alternative would be to have games at the downtown minor league baseball stadium (pluses include great location and real grass), but it's hard to imagine team owners paying rent to someone else when they have their own stadium. So really it will be IGF for the foreseeable future. I guess if it really takes off things could eventually change.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:36 PM
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Sadly Winnipeg doesn't really have a small stadium to expand at a reasonable cost. The only facilities that even come close are University Stadium which is a super-basic concrete grandstand with hardly any facilities and a crap field. Plus it is used by the university for track and field so I think that would limit the things that could be done with it. Then there's the Winnipeg Soccer Complex which is basically a glorified community centre... doing something there would mean starting from scratch and I just can't see that happening.

The only possible alternative would be to have games at the downtown minor league baseball stadium (pluses include great location and real grass), but it's hard to imagine team owners paying rent to someone else when they have their own stadium. So really it will be IGF for the foreseeable future. I guess if it really takes off things could eventually change.
I took a look at the Winnipeg Soccer Complex online just now. This is EXACTLY the type of place that could be easily and cheaply converted to a 5,000 seat stadium!
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  #46  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 2:59 PM
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I took a look at the Winnipeg Soccer Complex online just now. This is EXACTLY the type of place that could be easily and cheaply converted to a 5,000 seat stadium!
There's not much to it... it has a nice field and lights, but apart from that really none of the amenities that a pro team would require. That said, I guess just having the land is a start, so you build one 5,000 seat grandstand with dressing rooms and clubhouse underneath and you've got something. But it still seems unlikely to me, though... WSC is an amateur facility through and through.

IGF may be too big from an atmosphere standpoint, but at least it's fully equipped for pro level competition.
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  #47  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 10:45 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
There's not much to it... it has a nice field and lights, but apart from that really none of the amenities that a pro team would require. That said, I guess just having the land is a start, so you build one 5,000 seat grandstand with dressing rooms and clubhouse underneath and you've got something. But it still seems unlikely to me, though... WSC is an amateur facility through and through.

IGF may be too big from an atmosphere standpoint, but at least it's fully equipped for pro level competition.
The soccer complex would be perfect - this is where our 4th tier semi-pro soccer team played most of their games the past few years.

-Destroy the cheap main grand stand with the wooden benches
-Build a 5,000 seat new grand stand with mostly (or entirely) individual seating with locker rooms/clubhouse underneath on the field side with a handful of permanent concessions and washrooms on the public side
- a second level for pressbox and 5-10 suites or a few hundred club seats
- the area in the south end could be used for corporate hospitality tents
- the north end could be a 1-2,000 seat bench seating for supporters
- leave the east side empty but if demand warrants it build a 2 - 3,000 seat grandstand there

Easy for me to say - it's not my money. I have a hard time believing you could build something even as basic as this for $5 million once you factor in locker rooms, offices, meeting rooms, therapy rooms and who knows what else. A division 2 team would need those amenities if they want to maintain a professional appearance.

Who would pay for. I don't think a private investor would entertain the thought of more than a million or so (pay for player and coaching facilities) as they ROI from the stadium would just not be there. Tickets will be cheap, it's a startup league with no established fanbase so we have no idea how it will draw, TV deal will probably be peanuts and corporate sponsorships may be lacking.

A publicly subsidized stadium? Possible, but I'm sure government officials from the province and city would rightfully point out there is a perfectly suitable stadium at the University of Manitoba in IGF that is currently used 20 times per year...even though it is too big for CSL soccer.

If this was a startup league in the US, I'm sure government officials would be tripping all over themselves looking to handout $10 - $15 million in public subsidies to build a 5 - 10,000 seat soccer stadium espousing all the jobs and tourists this building will attract.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 11:17 PM
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So where do we stand on confirmed in the league/confirmed interested in the league?

Seemingly confirmed: Hamilton, Winnipeg
Confirmed interested: Halifax, Kitchener-Waterloo

That's all i've been able to glean thus far. There's potential for either Ottawa/Edmonton to switch from USL/NASL but at this stage neither are entirely confirmed. Ottawa is much more likely than FC Edmonton at this stage. Swangard Stadium is sitting in Burnaby just begging for a CPL tenant, I can feel it.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 11:49 PM
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I would like to think Victoria would be a good candidate at some point. Royal Athletic Park would be an ideal size for a CSL team. The city has very little competition for sports entertainment dollars. It is good mid-sized city.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 11, 2017, 1:42 AM
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Well they did say they had investors ready for 12 cities, but they're only adding teams in phases since they want to test out the model first and slowly build out the personnel/capacity to manage the league. I can't see Victoria not being in this eventually, a mid-sized city with no other pro team and a natural partner/rival with the Vancouver Whitecaps, a no brainer in my book.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 12, 2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
So where do we stand on confirmed in the league/confirmed interested in the league?

Seemingly confirmed: Hamilton, Winnipeg
Confirmed interested: Halifax, Kitchener-Waterloo

That's all i've been able to glean thus far. There's potential for either Ottawa/Edmonton to switch from USL/NASL but at this stage neither are entirely confirmed. Ottawa is much more likely than FC Edmonton at this stage. Swangard Stadium is sitting in Burnaby just begging for a CPL tenant, I can feel it.
The TSS Rovers in the USL PDL are kicking off at Swangard tonight


Last edited by cjones2451; May 12, 2017 at 10:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #52  
Old Posted May 14, 2017, 8:57 PM
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As for how this can move with the MLS, here's an idea I thought of (obviously must be done with USA Soccer) to keep the MLS as a continental league at the top, but everything below being national-based:

Tier 1 - MLS (capped at 24 teams, max 4 Canadian)

Tier 2 (Canada) - CPL, Tier 2 (USA) - MLS-2 or equivalent

If a US (or other international?) based team finishes 24th in MLS and is automatically relegated:
* The MLS-2 champions are automatically promoted
* Up to 2 teams from CPL (if spots open), 4 to 6 teams from MLS-2 and the 22nd and 23rd place teams from MLS enter an 8-team playoff; two teams promoted or maintain their places

If a Canadian based team finishes 24th in MLS and is automatically relegated:
* The CPL champions are automatically promoted
* The CPL runner-up (if a spot is open), 5 or 6 teams from MLS-2 and the 22nd and 23rd place teams from MLS enter an 8-team playoff; two teams promoted or maintain their places

The CPL would be capped at 14 teams, but that number could decrease or increase based on MLS changes.

From here down, all Canadian:

Tier 3 (National) - 2 teams up, 2 teams down

Tier 4 (Regional - East, Central, West) - 1 team from each up, 3 teams down

It could drop further later, but do we start adding amateur leagues?
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  #53  
Old Posted May 14, 2017, 10:02 PM
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Serious question: what is the appeal of pro/reg to soccer fans? What does it add to the game? I see so many people who never stop calling for it to be implemented in North America, but why? It comes off as people just want it cause it's what everyone else (Europe specifically) do. Same with naming teams "FC" when football isn't the most commonly used name for the sport here.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 15, 2017, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime View Post
Serious question: what is the appeal of pro/reg to soccer fans? What does it add to the game? I see so many people who never stop calling for it to be implemented in North America, but why? It comes off as people just want it cause it's what everyone else (Europe specifically) do. Same with naming teams "FC" when football isn't the most commonly used name for the sport here.
Essentially, if your team does great and wins the league it should be given the opportunity to compete at a higher level where it will obtain more exposure and money (TV deals, etc.). Not having pro/rel means that you're at the whim of team ownership or the league for placement when you should really be at the whim of your team's performance.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 15, 2017, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerSPC View Post
Essentially, if your team does great and wins the league it should be given the opportunity to compete at a higher level where it will obtain more exposure and money (TV deals, etc.). Not having pro/rel means that you're at the whim of team ownership or the league for placement when you should really be at the whim of your team's performance.
I like pro/rel myself mostly for these reasons but I am realistic that it won't happen ever in North America.

Actually, I even think its days are numbered in Europe. Increasingly, the powers-that-be are less and less enthusiastic about teams from smaller cities with rinky-dink 8,000-seat stadiums making it into the top-level competition where the powerhouse clubs play.

In boardrooms this is now widely seen as a waste of potential revenue, marketing, sponsorship, etc. But they haven't yet found a way to get out of it, and tradition is important in Europe.
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  #56  
Old Posted May 15, 2017, 5:58 PM
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Imagine being an owner of an MSL team recently having paid $50 - $150 million for an expansion franchise, and within a few years having your team relegated to a 2nd tier league because they finished last. Meanwhile, the owner of a 2nd tier league, having recently paid a whopping $2 - $3 million for his team, has it promoted to the MLS after winning the championship the previous year. Not going to happen here.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 11:57 PM
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Halifax City Council will be voting on Tuesday to approve a 7,000 seat temporary stadium on the Wanderer Grounds in Central Halifax for use by the proposed Halifax CPL team. There were some details about the league within the proposal to council:
  • CPL plans to be a six team league in 2018, expanding to eight teams in 2019
  • Halifax expects to have 10 home regular season games in 2018 and 14 in 2019
  • There will be a playoff format

Of the six proposed teams for 2018 we know three: Hamilton, Winnipeg, Halifax. The other three are up for debate right now. If I had to assume I would say KW, Calgary, Quebec City, and (apparently) Regina are interested, along with the various other bids from multiple parties in and around Toronto. When Ottawa/Edmonton decide to vacate USL/NASL is anyone's guess.

Along with this, there is a special event to be held in September 2017 in the event the stadium in Halifax is approved. They need 5,000 seats for it and, if I had to guess...it might be a MNT Friendly. They play a friendly against Jamaica on September 2nd in Toronto and typically schedule two home friendlies back-to-back when they do play at home. Would be big news for Halifax if so.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 1:30 AM
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Would you all be in favor of having the 3 MLS teams leave MLS and join CPL?
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 4:42 AM
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Halifax approves downtown pop-up soccer stadium in bid for new team

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"We’re that much closer to being awarded a franchise,” Sports Entertainment Atlantic president Derek Martin said. “The league was waiting to see how things would work here for us in Halifax. We had a lot of the details worked out but we just had no where to play.”

The team’s home field would be at the Wanderers Grounds, a four-hectare natural turf sports field on the Halifax Commons.

The Halifax Football Club, a possible name for the team, would have a 7,000 seat stadium and host 10 regular season games during the league’s first season in 2018.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 6:07 AM
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Why does that matter?
Travel costs. Easier to do bus and train trips which are cheap over a small geography. I good comparison would be Australia and their domestic league as they would have similar geography distances.
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