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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 4:02 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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WOW! Whohoo!!! Finally!!!

Ugh, on a side note, that is one hell of an ugly building. Ugly Tallest Building is what I will call it for now. But the height ROCKS!!!


-Andrew
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 4:12 AM
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Phoenix has enough tall buildings for one city... What Arizona needs is more 1-2 story suburban housing projects.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 4:48 AM
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What kind of mafia set-up do they have in Phoenix that you need to "donate" your land to the city for development concessions? Does anybody think sharing parking with college students is a bright idea? Although it would add some much needed height to the Phoenix skyline, I don't think the current proposal is viable. That Phoenix Resort Building looks much nicer.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 4:48 AM
Don B. Don B. is offline
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^ Somebody smack him, please.

Better yet, spank him with a cactus. It would only be fitting.

Back to your regularly scheduled partying. I'm getting drunk tonight, tee hee!

--don
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 5:30 AM
GeorgeLV GeorgeLV is offline
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Don B., if you want more skyscrapers in Phoenix then you should really question what effects the precedent of "paying off" the city for development rights leads to.

Anyhow, to kill the mood (sorry), here are some observations that leapt out at me: The article makes it clear that the developer has no experience in building large projects. The article plainly states that they're shopping around for an experienced condo developer to come up with the money and actually do the development. The article even notes that they're still waiting for their market research to come in! As I read it, all they have is a site that they no longer own and a really crude model of a building they have neither the money nor the experience to construct. It's a huge leap to declare that Phoenix will get a new tallest based on the current information available. Now if next week you hear about these guys receiving a couple hundred million dollars in financing you have a story.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 6:02 AM
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I don't think you have to worry about the design depicted in the model coming to fruition. It appears to be a crude study model for massing purposes, probably one of many lying around the office. When the time came to publish intent someone most likely asked an intern to glue on balcony and other details to give it depth- which he appears to have quite enjoyed.....a bit too much perhaps.

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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 7:01 AM
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DracoCaifan DracoCaifan is offline
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Dont' like the building, but on the other hand... I love the place... I think it is an ideal location for it plus I can't complaint about the height.. Why should I? Excellent News!!!!!
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 8:44 AM
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By the way, even if the building that goes on the site ends up being only half as tall (note the article says "as many as 50 stories"), it will still be a HUGE improvement over the crappy motel currently there. It's absolutely pitiful that something like that exists downtown.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 10:37 AM
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Thats the nature of sunbelt cities. Quite un-natural if you ask me.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 12:31 PM
Don B. Don B. is offline
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Article in today's Arizona Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...wncondo30.html

Downtown plan calls for 50-story condo tower

Glen Creno and Ginger D. Richardson
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 30, 2005 12:00 AM

Phoenix's condo craze has kicked into overdrive with talk of a 50-story downtown tower that would be the state's tallest building.

The building would go on the site of the Ramada Inn-Downtown, a hotel at 401 N. First St. that opened in 1956. Plans are preliminary, but one idea being kicked around is a 50-story condo tower with space on the site set aside for Arizona State University's journalism school. The ground floor would have retail.

Investors in the project are shopping for a developer, and Donald Trump's name is already in the mix. So is Optima, the Chicago-area company that already is putting up a couple of big condo projects in the Valley.

The investors, a group called City Centre LLC, which owns the Ramada and includes local and out-of-state investors, would donate the land to the city and ASU and keep the development rights.

Downtown Development Director Pat Grady declined to comment on who might ultimately be selected to develop the condominium project, but he expects property owners to make an announcement in the next two to three weeks.

Grady said that it isn't clear at this point whether the site will be home to one or two condominium towers and that the height has not yet been decided. Downtown Phoenix's Bank One Center, at 40 stories, is the state's tallest building.

"Whether it is 25 stories or 50 stories will have to be determined by a market assessment," Grady said. "But it is very exciting."

Trump and development partner Bayrock Group are trying to win approval for a hotel-condo project in the city's ritzy Camelback Corridor near 24th Street and Camelback Road. Optima is building a project near the intersection and planning another north of Scottsdale Fashion Square.

Mark Stanton, Trump and Bayrock's local spokesman, said the group has looked at several downtown Phoenix properties, including the Ramada site. He said the developers are not giving up on their Camelback plans despite some neighborhood opposition. Any downtown project would be a separate endeavor, he said.

"What they are building downtown would be a totally different product," Stanton said. "It's a totally different area."

Nick Wood, a zoning attorney at Snell & Wilmer who represents the Ramada's owners, said construction could start in 18 months.

He said the condo tower could contain 1 million square feet of space, developed at an average cost of $225 to $250 a square foot.

Metro Phoenix is the country's top home-building market, specializing in affordable single-family houses built on the city's fringes. But there is a surge of interest in condos and urban lofts.

And many of these new projects are heading downtown to piggyback on the bioscience buzz and the prospect of an ASU campus in the center city.

Keith Mishkin, condo broker with Cambridge Properties, said the Ramada site is a prime spot in the heart of the planned ASU campus and across the street from a planned Sheraton convention hotel.

The project could spin toward high-end or affordable condos or even some kind of student housing, Mishkin said.




--don
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2005, 8:31 PM
GeorgeLV GeorgeLV is offline
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Don B., well the Downtown Development Director Pat Grady says he expects an announcement of a developer within three weeks. If that happens, we'll eventually have a serious proposal to look at. Until then, I'd only pencil in the journalism school for the site.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 12:17 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Pride
Phoenix has enough tall buildings for one city... What Arizona needs is more 1-2 story suburban housing projects.
^Someone get a cactus and run him over with it. Then feed him to the vultures.

Who says we do not have enough tall builidngs for one city?! None of our buildings even crack 490 feet! What we DO NOT need are more 1-2 story suburban housing projects, SPRAWL is killing our beautiful deserts and straining our freeways and infrasturcture. You have either GOT to be joking or just another one of those people who think Phoenix is full of tumbleweeds, Cowboys and Indians and believing Arizona is all desert (which is NOT true).

Phoenix is 98% sprawl and 2% infill. I think we are way overdue on a new tallest, and although the design for this building is ugly, I will take 50-stories ANY day over a 1-2 story suburban housing project.

-Andrew

Last edited by Azndragon837; May 1, 2005 at 4:42 AM.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 12:23 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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By the way, I sent a letter to our local paper, The Arizona Republic, announcing to our city to those stupid NIMBYs to BACK-OFF on our tower:

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On Saturday, there was an article announcing plans for a new 50-story condo tower for downtown Phoenix. I would like to support having a new tallest in town. Past letters I have emphasized my support for skyscrapers, and I welcome this news. Now I am waiting for that rush of NIMBYs (Not in My Backyard) folks to oppose this. They are going to argue that:

“I didn't move here to live in a city of canyons. If I wanted Manhattan, I'd move there!”

"It'll block our views of the desert, the sky and the sunsets!"

"Not one penny of my hard-earned tax dollars should go for this.”

Okay, Phoenix will never become NYC. Look at Denver and San Diego; they both have a beautiful tall skyline without being like NYC. Also, the tower will not be tall enough to block our sunset and mountain views, and it isn’t going to follow everyone around. Lastly, this is going to be a private development; Trump and Optima have been mentioned as possible developers. So please support this new tallest, it will be a wonderful addition. We are overdue on a tallest for over thirty years. Besides, downtown is the perfect location.


_________________________


So I hope the letter gets published. Here in Phoenix, a lot oppose any tall development, thinking it will take away our vistas and become NYC. Well, along with that PA Pride dummy and our NIMBYs, they can shove it.

Sprawl is sucking everything away from our city core, and we need to do something soon to limit it's growth. Before this thread in our Interior West forum, we had an inner-city arguement about sprawl, and it surely got everyone's true colors out of them, and I was surprised. Some thought sprawl was a good thing, and it sure looked like they were in par with PA Pride, the NIMBYs and other knuckle-heads who supports raping our deserts and building ugly tracts of cookie-cutter homes that won't even last 25 years.

I support this new tallest. PHOENIX is finally getting what it deserves, and I am happy!

-Andrew
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  #34  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 2:10 AM
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PHX31 PHX31 is offline
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I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

I'm just looking forward to the first renderings, and more concrete information.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 2:23 AM
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plinko plinko is offline
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Not to be nitpicky...but if you're going to write a letter in SUPPORT of something, wouldn't it be helpful to actually talk about the benefits of said project vs. just lashing out in a pre-reactionary way?

Talk about the project. Talk about what it does for the city. Talk about the future possibilities it could create.

Don't stoop to their level by calling them out.

And BTW, I realize that it's exciting because the project is potentially a new tallest building for the city, but the fact that we are 'overdue' for a new tallest is ONLY relevant to those of us who pay attention to such things. The average person in Phoenix probably doesn't know what the tallest building in town is anyway.

That being said, I hope they find a developer and a financial team. But honestly I've seen lots of renderings over the years from groups like City Centre, LLC with very little to show for it. Here's hoping that the project has enough viability to attract somebody like Trump or Optima. Anybody remember the Cole Companies? Development options on half a dozen high profile lots in Midtown in the late 1990's using telecom money before the dot bomb. Pretty renderings but no real traction.

At least the market in Phoenix now might be ready for something NEAR this scale.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 2:59 AM
GeorgeLV GeorgeLV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko
That being said, I hope they find a developer and a financial team. But honestly I've seen lots of renderings over the years from groups like City Centre, LLC with very little to show for it.
Exactly. Proposing a 50 floor building with no finacing, or even a zoning approval to point to, is dubious at best. In cities further along in the condo boom they'd be ignored entirely by the local media. Things are in motion for Phoenix to get a new tallest soon if the FAA is willing. I just don't think this is where it will happen.

As for the other candidates, you can bet that if Trump can reach a deal he'd like to make the announcement on the live finale of the Apprentice.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 4:41 AM
Azndragon837 Azndragon837 is offline
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Haha, I think Trump can do that (announce it on a live taping of his show). Plinko, I am just getting myself ahead of the game. I am most likely going to write another letter stating the benefits of the tower, including revitalizing downtown, having ASU involved with it, and having a large influx of residents move in. Also, if this tower is officially announced, it will be a catalyist for other developers to come and build taller condos downtown!

Whohoo! Anyways, I am sticking to my letter, and that is that. Call them out or not, eventually someone is going to gripe against that tower. I just have this long standing grudge against those NIMBYs. I am going to write another letter supporting the tower, but for the time being, let's see who I pissed off, hehehe.

In the meantime, Don, Upward and I are planning a possible forum meet Saturday or sometime soon. I do not think anyone else would even bother to show up like last time, but Don will officially post the time and date.

-Andrew
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  #38  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 5:04 AM
GeorgeLV GeorgeLV is offline
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Azndragon837, yeah last year he gave the winner the choice of working in New York or Las Vegas (after doing an extended sales pitch for Trump Tower Vegas) so if he has a deal in place I'd imagine he couldn't pass up the promotional opportunity to do the same for Phoenix.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 12:08 PM
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Here in Vancouver we have One Wall Centre which is 48 floors and 491 feet, so I'd imgine this one would just clear the 500 ft. mark.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 1, 2005, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azndragon837
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Pride
Phoenix has enough tall buildings for one city... What Arizona needs is more 1-2 story suburban housing projects.
^Someone get a cactus and run him over with it. Then feed him to the vultures.

Who says we do not have enough tall builidngs for one city?! None of our buildings even crack 490 feet! What we DO NOT need are more 1-2 story suburban housing projects, SPRAWL is killing our beautiful deserts and straining our freeways and infrasturcture. You have either GOT to be joking or just another one of those people who think Phoenix is full of tumbleweeds, Cowboys and Indians and believing Arizona is all desert (which is NOT true).

Phoenix is 98% sprawl and 2% infill. I think we are way overdue on a new tallest, and although the design for this building is ugly, I will take 50-stories ANY day over a 1-2 story suburban housing project.

-Andrew
cool down, obviously the guy was joking
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