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  #6481  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 7:04 PM
milomilo milomilo is online now
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I'm not saying that artists are deserving of greater privilege, but here are some things to consider:

1. Many artists have different living/working space requirements that are not easily provided by the market. In fact, most private for-profit developers would not build the kind of space that artists seek even if they could sell artspace to artists at a profit, because the marginal rate of return of building a conventional market-oriented unit is almost always going to be higher. I think the inability to construct space for artists is an example of 'market failure', similar to how condo developers are almost always more inclined to build 1 bedroom condo units over 3 bedroom condo units.

2. Government subsidies account for a small percentage of arts funding. A lot comes from private donors or corporate sponsors. This is usually the case with artist live/work spaces. Since they're typically run by private not-for-profits, they can screen for the kinds of tenants they want.

3. "Are non 'artists' allowed to live in this gated community?"

You fill out an application form like this

Also, I'm not sure why this would be any more of a "gated community" than any other apartment or condo tower.

4. And, finally, you may ask "why artists"? Why not any other business? There are several answers to that. The first is that other businesses have exclusive incubators, too, but you don't seem to be singling them out. Here's a tech accelerator in Waterloo that gets a lot of funding from the Federal government. Where's your faux outrage? Secondly, as I have already mentioned, suitable space that's useful for artists is not necessarily spontaneously supplied by market forces in expensive cities. And, finally, having artists cluster together plants the seeds for cross-cultural exchange and innovation. Even if all you care about is dollars and cents, these sorts of artists clusters are usually very good at creating new creative businesses - the kind that hire people and pay taxes.
I'm not outraged I just find it a little silly/pretentious. The word artist is vague anyway - is the workspace a graphic designer needs the same as a musician? I'm dubious any sort of intervention in the housing market is going to cause a blossoming of creativity, these things happen organically. You can't just plonk down some artist housing crates and say 'artists, begin artsing!' then expect the community to explode with colour.
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  #6482  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 7:20 PM
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These type of developments with housing, work and, event spaces have proven to be very successful (ex. Artscape in Toronto) at bringing colour to the greater community.
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  #6483  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I'm not outraged I just find it a little silly/pretentious. The word artist is vague anyway - is the workspace a graphic designer needs the same as a musician?
I'm neither a professional musician nor a graphic artist, but I think there is something that artists of any type share in common when they look for workspace:

A flexible rather large room with high ceilings with the ability to adapt the interior to your needs.

In the artist live/workspaces that I've visited, the general theme seems to be that the bathroom - which is rather small and minimalist - is the only separate room. Everything else is one big space, with no differentiation in terms of where the sleeping quarters or dining area would be. The kitchen was also very minimalist, small and had none of the bells and whistles of a typical new-build condo kitchen. A lot of the value-adding amenities of condos were absent. I doubt most artist's live work/spaces would appeal to any other home purchasers other than other artists.
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  #6484  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
'm dubious any sort of intervention in the housing market is going to cause a blossoming of creativity, these things happen organically. You can't just plonk down some artist housing crates and say 'artists, begin artsing!' then expect the community to explode with colour.

In many (most?) cases it's not so much an attempt to create something new than provide space for existing artists and replacement for older buildings that have been converted / demolished. The idea being that you don't want to price out what made a neighbourhood desirable in the first place. Of course providing concentrated space for multiple artists does ensure continued creation of creative output and helps maintain / attract local businesses.

Artscape in Toronto has been quite successful with this - to the point that they are even considered "too commercial" by some.
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  #6485  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I'm neither a professional musician nor a graphic artist, but I think there is something that artists of any type share in common when they look for workspace:

A flexible rather large room with high ceilings with the ability to adapt the interior to your needs.

In the artist live/workspaces that I've visited, the general theme seems to be that the bathroom - which is rather small and minimalist - is the only separate room. Everything else is one big space, with no differentiation in terms of where the sleeping quarters or dining area would be. The kitchen was also very minimalist, small and had none of the bells and whistles of a typical new-build condo kitchen. A lot of the value-adding amenities of condos were absent. I doubt most artist's live work/spaces would appeal to any other home purchasers other than other artists.
Interesting. Apologies for the aggressive tone I sometimes take! Sounds like affordable housing, just with different compromises, I guess. Are there shared spaces in these buildings?
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  #6486  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 8:16 PM
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Affordable housing should be available to everyone with no favoritism . That said, it's not a bad idea at all for affordable housing to have a focus beyond just being affordable.
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  #6487  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Interesting. Apologies for the aggressive tone I sometimes take! Sounds like affordable housing, just with different compromises, I guess. Are there shared spaces in these buildings?
No worries. In the building my friend lived in, I don't think there was any shared space beyond the usual shared rooms you'd find in most buildings. There wasn't a sound studio with equipment that anyone could book, or anything like that. But different arts incubators will have different amenities.
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  #6488  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2016, 11:50 PM
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50 story education mega centre proposed for Surrey City Centre.
Very interesting. It kind of reminds me of the Woodwards building.
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  #6489  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 4:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok
The Edmonton proposal isn't great, but I'd take it any day before that awkward Toronto mess. That building is essentially killing intesification on the rest of the block with it's shape, is looming both awkwardly and menacingly above the old house at the base (like it plans to fall over), and even if that were fixed would be ruined by the utterly suburban looking little house at the bse killing any decent street interaction (an issue sadly blighting a lot of Toronto towers these days... A house makes a terrible base for a tower).
LOL at the homerism. That Edmonton thing is hideous. Podiums are for creating a buffer from a big tower to preserve human scale streetscape, and to that end of course houses work. That's why Vancouver was all about the townhouse podiums all this time. Lots of cheap buildings look great, let's quit making excuses like that.
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  #6490  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 2:13 PM
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From what I remember podiums comprise of townhouses in Vancouver still look like a podium for a tower. This is not the same as using houses as podiums.
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  #6491  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
LOL at the homerism. That Edmonton thing is hideous. Podiums are for creating a buffer from a big tower to preserve human scale streetscape, and to that end of course houses work. That's why Vancouver was all about the townhouse podiums all this time. Lots of cheap buildings look great, let's quit making excuses like that.
Homerism?

As in Homer Simpson or Homer the Greek Poet?
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  #6492  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 10:23 PM
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Governor's Plaza on Hollis Street; the tower-with-townhouses in the background is the Alexander, currently under construction. Interesting in that the design looks like facadism/modern renovations to an old structure, but it would actually be built from scratch.

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  #6493  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 10:41 PM
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Great Surrey proposal! Interesting concept.
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  #6494  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post


Mixed-use, wood construction, proposed for Main Street in Dartmouth.
Wow! I wish Calgary developers would take note and give us awesome midrises like that!
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  #6495  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 7:00 PM
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New high-res render of the planned TOD in Brossard near the REM station. Construction is supposed to start in April.

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  #6496  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 7:02 PM
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^It's fine, I guess. I'll take it. Or rather, they'll take it. I honestly just don't care that much about Brossard.
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  #6497  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 8:37 PM
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Puny compared to the huge buildings seen everywhere in this thread, but here's a new spot proposed in downtown Freddy. Page 13 of the PDFhttp://www.fredericton.ca/sites/default/files/pdf/agenda-pac_1.pdf
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  #6498  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 1:18 AM
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A new proposal for La Cité Verte, situated in the St-Sacrement district, Uppertown Québec City.

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  #6499  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 1:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Governor's Plaza on Hollis Street; the tower-with-townhouses in the background is the Alexander, currently under construction. Interesting in that the design looks like facadism/modern renovations to an old structure, but it would actually be built from scratch.

This is common here. I wonder if faux heritage designs with glass penthouse levels is common around Canada.
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  #6500  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2016, 2:30 AM
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I prefer the term "revival" myself. I'd take it.
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