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  #8421  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
The difference is the ICE District is being used as the centrepiece for the rebirth of downtown Edmonton and every Tom, Dick and Harry is now aspiring to build there own awe inspiring tower development that lacks the intimacy and hidden discoveries typical of a downtown pedestrian experience.

The only one claiming that the Ice District is being used as a centrepiece for the rebirth of downtown is you. Jasper Avenue will always be downtown's #1 street, Churchill square will always be downtown's #1 square. The Ice District won't be competing with them, it will be complimenting them. If you are looking for "intimate hidden discoveries', take a look at the nicest alley in Edmonton so far, you can thank the Ice District for that.

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Originally Posted by hilman View Post
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Edmonton should be looking towards the midrise forms in the East Village in Calgary or the West Donland in Toronto given the size of the apartment market and the vast amount of empty space.
That is what Ice District 2.0 is all about, developing a large swath of vacant land into a mid-rise neighbourhood. I think you all need to read this article:

Quote:
Ice District taking shape with 'fantastic' plaza, says Edmonton designer
http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...onton-designer

Excerpt from the middle of the article:

Quote:
The huge buildings of the Ice District get all the hype and ink, but it’s the spaces between the structures that will help make or break the area as a people place.

You can already see the smaller laneways that will link the existing downtown to the Ice District. If those lanes are welcoming, with restaurants and cafes, people will want to hang out in them, as opposed to rushing through them.

“It’s coming together,” Figueira said of the laneways. “Those are the spaces where people are mostly going to hang out.”

A major challenge in the Ice District will come with all the shops, restaurants and amenities on the second floor and above in the various buildings. Those businesses might serve to suck life off the street.

“People might say, ‘I don’t need the ground floor any more. Let’s just go up,’ ” Figueira says.

One aspect of the plan that excites Figueira is the plaza.

The space is now a huge pit full of cranes, workers and the foundation of buildings, but one day it will be an open area for the public to congregate and celebrate, and for the Oilers Entertainment Group to stage outdoor events. Restaurants and outdoor cafes will ring it.

“All that I see about this plaza, it’s fantastic,” Figueira said.

The plaza should often seem full of people, as it’s not too large, Figueira said. “The plaza is not going to be too big, which is good. It becomes more human scale. It is about perception. A lot of places that we think there’s a lot of people, they are small spaces.”
It seems like a lot of conclusions are being jumped today.
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  #8422  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:47 PM
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^ there's a lot of conclusions being jumped to in that booster piece by Staples, too
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  #8423  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 8:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itom 987 View Post
The only one claiming that the Ice District is being used as a centrepiece for the rebirth of downtown is you. Jasper Avenue will always be downtown's #1 street, Churchill square will always be downtown's #1 square. The Ice District won't be competing with them, it will be complimenting them. If you are looking for "intimate hidden discoveries', take a look at the nicest alley in Edmonton so far, you can thank the Ice District for that.





That is what Ice District 2.0 is all about, developing a large swath of vacant land into a mid-rise neighbourhood. I think you all need to read this article:



It seems like a lot of conclusions are being jumped today.

Just me? Yeah right. I've seen Edmonton forumers swoon over the Ice District. The massing models for 2.0 is what started this conservation. Few would call towers plopped on expansive podiums a mid-rise neighbourhood.

Umm, The alley running behind CofE's podium is not what I mean by hidden discovery. What exactly is hidden? Joey's behind the plants? What is there to discover? A couple CRUs in the CofE podium? There's not unexpected there.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; Jun 30, 2017 at 9:10 PM.
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  #8424  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 9:43 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Just me? Yeah right. I've seen Edmonton forumers swoon over the Ice District. The massing models for 2.0 is what started this conservation. Few would call towers plopped on expansive podiums a mid-rise neighbourhood.

Umm, The alley running behind CofE's podium is not what I mean by hidden discovery. What exactly is hidden? Joey's behind the plants? What is there to discover? A couple CRUs in the CofE podium? There's not unexpected there.
I didn't realize that large scale office and condo developments should be providing "intimate hidden discoveries" in their developments. And you still haven't really said what exactly do you mean by an intimate hidden discovery. Must be a Toronto thing because I have never seen such a thing (in relation to large scale construction) so please feel free to provide us all with details on how that is or can be done. How about a few examples from the current stock of developments in Toronto? I mean, there must be some examples in Toronto that you can provide. If that is something that is lacking currently in the Ice District design I would like to see what we are missing...
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  #8425  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 9:45 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Just me? Yeah right. I've seen Edmonton forumers swoon over the Ice District. The massing models for 2.0 is what started this conservation. Few would call towers plopped on expansive podiums a mid-rise neighbourhood.

Umm, The alley running behind CofE's podium is not what I mean by hidden discovery. What exactly is hidden? Joey's behind the plants? What is there to discover? A couple CRUs in the CofE podium? There's not unexpected there.
And yes, the Ice District developments are definitely Swoon worthy...
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  #8426  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Just me? Yeah right. I've seen Edmonton forumers swoon over the Ice District. The massing models for 2.0 is what started this conservation. Few would call towers plopped on expansive podiums a mid-rise neighbourhood.

Umm, The alley running behind CofE's podium is not what I mean by hidden discovery. What exactly is hidden? Joey's behind the plants? What is there to discover? A couple CRUs in the CofE podium? There's not unexpected there.
Edmonton forumers hype up the Ice District just like forumers in other cities hype up their projects - no one is innocent, you know that. Yet you seem to think that Edmonton's downtown is tiny.

I guess Victoria's Fan Tan alley would be an example of what you are looking for. If it isn't then you need to describe what you are looking for because it seems like you are looking for something very specific. As for Fan Tan alley, that is in a Chinatown. Asian and european cities are known for their nooks and crannies as they were around long before the automobile. You know that. I guess the secret would be that a female pedestrian will realize that they can take a shortcut to the Ice District through an alley without worrying about trouble. You're a man, so I guess you didn't know that!

The massing models for 2.0 are exactly that, MASSING MODELS. It is the intent the developer has for the project that counts.
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  #8427  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:07 PM
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^ no Dave, not really, at least to those of us exposed to high rise construction on a regular basis. The arena design is nice but I am concerned about what I've heard about the build quality, the Stantec and Marriotts have impressive height for Edmonton but their designs certainly aren't earth shattering. It's nice to see that one huge gravel lot go but there are still many huge gravel lots left, I get the impression that Edmontonians are just so desperate to see anything that's better than what we had before and that's great, but don't expect everyone across the country to swoon over it because it leaves a lot to be desired if its end goal is downtown "revitalization"

Bottom line it's a vanity project, downtown Edmonton definitely needs all the help it can get, and this is not a negative development, but downtowb still leaves a lot to be desired and this development is not the panacea that the locals think it is

In the end, it's still a vanity project for the city
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  #8428  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:23 PM
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What have you heard about the build quality?
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  #8429  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 10:33 PM
DAVEinEDMONTON DAVEinEDMONTON is offline
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
^ no Dave, not really, at least to those of us exposed to high rise construction on a regular basis. The arena design is nice but I am concerned about what I've heard about the build quality, the Stantec and Marriotts have impressive height for Edmonton but their designs certainly aren't earth shattering. It's nice to see that one huge gravel lot go but there are still many huge gravel lots left, I get the impression that Edmontonians are just so desperate to see anything that's better than what we had before and that's great, but don't expect everyone across the country to swoon over it because it leaves a lot to be desired if its end goal is downtown "revitalization"

Bottom line it's a vanity project, downtown Edmonton definitely needs all the help it can get, and this is not a negative development, but downtown still leaves a lot to be desired and this development is not the panacea that the locals think it is

In the end, it's still a vanity project for the city
Well, I think it is and just to note I am exposed to high rise construction on a regular basis just like you (been a member here for almost as long as you). And just because someone from Edmonton appreciates this project and has a positive opinion about it does not mean they are desperate.

Only time will tell whether it proves to be the catalyst for further downtown development that some people hope it will be.
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  #8430  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2017, 11:36 PM
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Whipperssnapper, perhaps this might help you find your "intimate hidden discoveries".

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...40#post7851540
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  #8431  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
Is there a thread for Fantasy proposals? Saw this yesterday at the Toronto of the Future exhibit at Toronto Metro Hall.

Reimaging the grain silos at the foot of Bathurst and in the Portlands.











Just build that black tower higher that one is nice get rid of the ugly prickle bush beside it 100% fugly certified
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  #8432  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 3:53 PM
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Ridiculous!!
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  #8433  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itom 987 View Post
Edmonton forumers hype up the Ice District just like forumers in other cities hype up their projects - no one is innocent, you know that. Yet you seem to think that Edmonton's downtown is tiny.

I guess Victoria's Fan Tan alley would be an example of what you are looking for. If it isn't then you need to describe what you are looking for because it seems like you are looking for something very specific. As for Fan Tan alley, that is in a Chinatown. Asian and european cities are known for their nooks and crannies as they were around long before the automobile. You know that. I guess the secret would be that a female pedestrian will realize that they can take a shortcut to the Ice District through an alley without worrying about trouble. You're a man, so I guess you didn't know that!

The massing models for 2.0 are exactly that, MASSING MODELS. It is the intent the developer has for the project that counts.
C'mon!

you assume incorrectly. I haven't implied downtown Edmonton is tiny as I don't think it's tiny. I do think it's small for the large area it covers including the underbuilt areas immediately next to it. That is the basis to a more modest approach would serve the city so much better than 500 unit towers in a small apartment market. No where have I said the Ice District is the be all and end all to downtown Edmonton. Yeah, I've based my comments on Edmontonians saying this will be the new place to be in downtown Edmonton. They are the experts afterall.

I'm looking for both interest and quality in the materials and design. The Ice District simply isn't it. The whole Ice District block uses the same catalog of bland, mass market materials. Look no further than Enbridge Place to get a smidgen of what I mean of interest and quality.

Huh? My opinion on 2.0 is based on those MASSING MODELS. I'm very clearly not basing it on the architecture when I say "towers plopped on large block podiums". I do understand this can change but this first draft leaves a lot to be desired. I'll revise my comments on every subsequent draft.
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  #8434  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 5:05 PM
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How could you not be excited about the Ice District and the towers going up with it ?
Low & mid-rise are great, bring it on, but it's not what excites me personally. I would be disappointed if downtown Edmonton didn't get any tall towers built as part of it's renaissance.
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  #8435  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2017, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
The fact is it's just a name. That should be most obvious to us given condo names. SSP started as an urban development forum and has evolved into a community with threads on all things as relationships have forged.

Why must everything be broken down by height? Why can't a thread be about urban design and architecture. There's already the 500 foot thread and all the Tallest threads. That's plenty. Let's not turn this into SSC. It used to compete with Urbantoronto discussions. Than the heighters took over bitching how everything is too short and UT restructured and everyone of value left. Do they still have a forum?

Height alone is boring. Most of the tall proposals are mediocre mass marketing engines too.

P.S. Let's not proved Dleung right
Huh? UT has as much traffic as ever.
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  #8436  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 1:14 PM
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Here is another possible typo for a Montreal proposal: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=113793

Union sur le parc I, 2020 boulevard Rene-Levesque Ouest Montreal

Does it really have 65 floors? Renders show twin towers about 20 floors each...
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  #8437  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koops65 View Post
Here is another possible typo for a Montreal proposal: http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=113793

Union sur le parc I, 2020 boulevard Rene-Levesque Ouest Montreal

Does it really have 65 floors? Renders show twin towers about 20 floors each...
Definitely a typo lol. 2x20 floors
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  #8438  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 1:57 PM
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I'm curious if any more news has come out from the OMB regarding a number of proposals in Toronto:

400 1 - 204 metres
400 2 - 198 metres
771 Yonge - 166 metres
217 Adelaide W - 165 metres
89 Church St. - 163 metres
263 Adelaide W - 161 metres
Theatre District Condos - 160 metres
46 Charlotte - 157 metres
55 Broadway A - 155 metres
55 Broadway B - 155 metres
The Manhattan - 155 metres
55 Eglinton E - 149 metres
100 Davenport - 142 metres
316 Bloor W - 137 metres
70 St. Mary - 135 metres
308 Jarvis - 135 metres
33 Avenue Rd. - 128 metres
89 Roehampton - 119 metres
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  #8439  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 2:55 PM
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You can always google the address
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  #8440  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2017, 6:24 PM
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Of course... AND I can also ask the people on here... some of them are quite knowledgeable about the subject...
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