HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Sports & Outdoor Recreation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted May 17, 2009, 9:37 PM
Vancity4life's Avatar
Vancity4life Vancity4life is offline
Psychonaut
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Dartmouth
Posts: 19
I'm a huge basketball fan and was heartbroken when the grizzlies left town. I would be ecstatic to see the NBA back in Vancouver. However...the people of Indiana love basketball and love their Pacers. I don't think Aquilini will have any success in moving the team here.
__________________
The man who comes back through the Door in the Wall will never be quite the same as the man who went out. He will be wiser but less sure, happier but less self-satisfied, humbler in acknowledging his ignorance yet better equipped to understand the relationship of words to things, of systematic reasoning to the unfathomable mystery which it tries, forever vainly, to comprehend. -Aldous Huxley, Doors of Perception
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted May 17, 2009, 11:48 PM
argon007 argon007 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 159
if "purchasing the NBA team" comes true, where will it be held?
at Richmond Oval? or GM Place?

you need to consider the factor of market and traffic. not the size of place.
so Richmond Oval is better than GM Place because Skytrain Canada Line Aberdeen Station is near there and YVR is near there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 12:15 AM
NetMapel's Avatar
NetMapel NetMapel is offline
Hello World
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,522
^ Well, the Richmond Oval is going to be converted into a community centre with ball courts and stuff. I'm not sure if they will even consider renovating it to become a NBA court since the Oval pretty big @_@
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 12:30 AM
Jacques Jacques is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 430
Aquilini firmly stated that he is NOT interested in buying f all, stop spreading false rumour.
end of story let it be guys
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 2:41 AM
Kodii Kodii is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 341
Can you link us to where he stated that?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 3:16 AM
flight_from_kamakura's Avatar
flight_from_kamakura flight_from_kamakura is offline
testify
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: san francisco and montreal
Posts: 1,319
bwahaha, yeah. it's a bargaining tactic, this. indianapolis (cool name for a city, btw) is a basketball town. the state has like 2 million more people than all of bc in a fraction of the area, way more of a basketball tradition, actual black people, and genuine american millionaires willing to take on basketball team ownership. vanada has...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 5:40 AM
hollywoodnorth's Avatar
hollywoodnorth hollywoodnorth is offline
Blazed Member - Citygater
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Downtown Vancouver
Posts: 6,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by flight_from_kamakura View Post
bwahaha, yeah. it's a bargaining tactic, this. indianapolis (cool name for a city, btw) is a basketball town. the state has like 2 million more people than all of bc in a fraction of the area, way more of a basketball tradition, actual black people, and genuine american millionaires willing to take on basketball team ownership. vanada has...
LOLs!!
__________________
Quote of the Decade on SSP: "what happens would it be?" - argon007

"orange vested guy" - towerguy3
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 7:19 AM
crazyjoeda's Avatar
crazyjoeda crazyjoeda is offline
Mac User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 861
I would bet money that this will not happen. I'm looking forward to MLS I think that league will really be successful here. However, its interesting to note that the Vancouver Grizzles had higher attendance in 2001 than Memphis had this year. So the Vancouver Grizzlies actually had a larger fan base.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted May 18, 2009, 10:18 AM
Jacques Jacques is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodii View Post
Can you link us to where he stated that?
yes he stated it last Thursday or Friday if I recall on CTV dispelling the rumour
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted May 19, 2009, 12:20 AM
Vancity's Avatar
Vancity Vancity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Richmond, BC
Posts: 1,637
Well, there might be a chance that the Memphis Grizzlies move back to Vancouver. Wouldn't that be ironic? Memphis is really struggling at the gate. Heisley (as far as I've heard) is looking to sell the team. What a stupid move (in hindsight) to move the team to Memphis. It's too bad Aquilini dispelled the rumors about purchasing the Pacers. How about bringing back the Grizz? And doing it right this time around.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted May 19, 2009, 1:44 AM
WBC WBC is offline
Transit User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Metrotown/Downtown
Posts: 786
There is 0% chance of Vancouver having a basketball team while Stern is the NBA commish. 0% chance. He stated that expansion to Vancouver was one of his biggest mistakes. He also engineered move from Vancouver, so forget about this in the next 20-30 years. Plus we lack corporate sponsors to make this happen - its not just about the number of fans that attend the games. You need to sell corporate boxes and also sell ticket at full prices - a large chunk of Grizzlies attendance were half priced tickets and giveaways.

BTW the reason that Canucks are doing well ticket wise is that they are no longer splitting fan base with the Grizzlies. We should be happy if we can support MLS and NHL at this point.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted May 19, 2009, 5:44 AM
mezzanine's Avatar
mezzanine mezzanine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBC View Post
There is 0% chance of Vancouver having a basketball team while Stern is the NBA commish. 0% chance. He stated that expansion to Vancouver was one of his biggest mistakes. He also engineered move from Vancouver, so forget about this in the next 20-30 years.
....
Memphis is really struggling at the gate. Heisley (as far as I've heard) is looking to sell the team.
And make sure the door doesn't hit the NBA's ass on the way out. All I remember from the NBA was a lot of ill-will generated while Stu Jackson dithered, spoiled stars complaining of being sent to Vancouver and Heisley's dance out of Vancouver. Then again, if the NBA allows a team like the Supersonics with a fair amount of history in a dynamic market like seattle to be moved to Oklahoma city, this is not suprising.

Last edited by mezzanine; May 19, 2009 at 5:59 AM. Reason: Michael Heisley can kiss my a$$
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted May 19, 2009, 5:58 AM
mezzanine's Avatar
mezzanine mezzanine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,998
Yes folks, I have no love....

Quote:
The billionaire was eager to move the team after promising not to leave Vancouver when he bought it. Since then it's been a lot of thrift city. Heisley has not allowed the Grizzlies to go anywhere near the luxury-tax threshold in the last few seasons. This season, they flirted with a third straight 60-loss finish, and nothing has drawn the ire of fans and owners across the league like the salary dump of Pau Gasol last season to the Lakers. "What do they want me to spend, $100 million?" he barked at the Memphis Commercial Appeal in '06. "The point is we're out-spending San Antonio and we're out-spending Phoenix. So the point is whether you're spending money means squat." Guess the playoffs mean squat, too.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ers/index.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:34 PM
Hot Rod's Avatar
Hot Rod Hot Rod is offline
Big City Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle-Vancouver-Osaka-Chongqing-Chicago-OKC
Posts: 1,179
Memphis isn't a pro-basketball market - period, it is a huge college bball market. NBA was the wrong league to try to bring to memphis, despite having a large AA community. It also has a LOT OF POOR, so I am not surprised it is up for sale.

Oklahoma City, on the other hand is a complete opposite of Memphis. It has large energy and bioscience (and government) organizations whereas Memphis only has FedEx. and the reason why OKC works is - OKC is one of the biggest college football markets with the OU Sooners, however basketball - well there's room. OKC Thunder does not compete with the OU Sooners. This combined with being larger is why OKC works and Memphis doesn't.

The reason why OKC works and Seattle didn't is Seattle isn't a 3 team city, never has been as Seattle's fanbase is fairweathered and pretentious. There was always a dark horse among the three, and with KeyArena in such bad shape to draw from those corporate sponsors or PROPERLY capture from the luxury segment - the writing was on the wall. On the other hand, OKC has a top arena that is being expanded and upgraded into one of the best in the league. OKC also has committed ownership, any person who thought that the OKC owners would keep the team in Seattle is just a plain idiot. ... This is why, despite being smaller - OKC works and Seattle doesn't.

OKC also did very well when the New Orleans Hornets played there for 2 years, that team didn't even want to leave.

Again, the NBA doesn't compete with the local biggie, OKC has an arena that captures all market segment dollars, local committed ownership, fans looking for major league identity, huge LOCAL (or local interest) corporate sponsorship, and a superstar player(s) (Kevin Durant) - it is no wonder that OKC is such a success. It's also why Portland is successful and has been regardless of having talent on the floor. Cities of our size (between 1M and 4M) need to have all 6 points in place for it to work.

Seattle nor Memphis, nor New Orleans nor Indy have this 'right mix' of the 6 points of success. But Vancouver DOES.

Vancouver doesn't have direct competition, sport wise as there isn't a major collegiate program (or following). that's 1. Vancouver already has a major arena, that with only a slight upgrade would capture all segments of the market. that's 2. Vancouver has committed local ownership. that's 3. Vancouver is already a major league city and with common ownership would minimize 'interference' between the NHL and NBA. that's 4. Vancouver has huge corporations willing to purchase ads and certainly could get marketing from other canadian (and American/multinational) corporations; which actually is the bulk of the NBA's top dollars. That's 5. Now Vancouver ONLY needs to work on 6 - getting a major superstar player(s)/winning team or one in the works.

This is where the problem is, but it is very easy to fix. The Aquilini's could purchase a team (see below) at bargain basement prices, market the team WITH the Canucks, and hire a good GM familiar with Asia/Asian talent - and bring in top Chinese players. They would be identifiable with Vancouver's immediate metro market and certainly would further capture those in Asia. Certainly luring Yao to Vancouver would be an instant hit. There's the 6th point for you. ...

There are many teams struggling: Hornets, Grizzlies, Pacers, Bobcats, Kings, Clippers, Bucks - all come to mind. Those teams just don't have all 6 points of NBA success in place in one form or another. It would be civic justice for the Grizzlies to return to Vancouver (wouldn't even need to change the name). haha

Does anybody know how I could pitch this to Aquilini. have an email?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 3:36 PM
BigWilly BigWilly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 59
Memphis Blues
Tom Van Riper, 01.15.10, 05:40 PM EST
Forbes Asia Magazine dated January 18, 2010
Michael Heisley has lost a mountain of money running an NBA team using the same strategy that made him a fortune in private equity.


Memphis Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley insists that he enjoys the perquisites and diversions that come with membership in the National Basketball Association owners' fraternity. Heisley just doesn't sound all that enthusiastic about owning this particular team. "Sometimes I sit back and wonder why I did it," Heisley says.

There's plenty to ponder. The team under Heisley's ownership has been rather dysfunctional. The 73-year-old billionaire financier bought the Vancouver, B.C. team for $160 million in 2000 and moved it south a year later to Memphis, Tennessee. The Grizzlies have lost money ever since in each season save one, and tore through eight head coaches and four player personnel chiefs. Over the past four seasons the team has a cumulative winning percentage of .357, fourth worst in the league (among 30 teams), and the lowest attendance, 2.28 million.

Worth $257 million, the Grizzlies are second from the bottom in value and the third most leveraged (with debt 58% of enterprise value). The NBA team average debt to value is 29%.

Heisley has been contemplating his exit for years but can't find a buyer at his asking price of $300 million-plus, including from among his minority partners. Many feel burned by his failed prior attempt to sell the team. Animus among the owners has driven away talented executives. Coaches show little interest in coming.

Heisley, with a net worth of $1.5 billion, can shrug off his NBA investment as not one of his best. The team has had a cumulative operating loss of $92 million since Heisley bought it, and he's had to fund those losses and service the debt out of his wallet. The minority investors' agreement limited their capital calls to $3 million, and they refused to throw more money in when the league directed the Grizzlies to convert some of its debt to equity. Heisley's infusions have diluted the junior partners' stake down to less than 3%. Given his cash infusions since buying the Grizzlies, Heisley could very well end up selling it at a loss. "I'll get nothing out of this other than ill will in Memphis."

Tennessee basketball fans had reason to believe things would be better when Heisley moved the team. The Chicagoan built his fortune borrowing, buying and flipping distressed assets through his Heico ( HEI - news - people ) Holding network of companies. The Grizzlies were a distressed asset, too, a losing team stuck with an unfavorable exchange rate. The arena pulled in revenue in Canadian dollars that exchanged for only 60 U.S. cents to pay players. When he bought the team, Heisley said he would keep it in Vancouver, but he turned tail and moved it to Memphis. Upon arrival he sold 30% to a Tennessee group of investors, including FedEx ( FDX - news - people ) founder Frederick Smith, AutoZone ( AZO - news - people ) founder Pitt Hyde and asset manager G. Staley Cates.

The new venue, however, which was paid for and owned by the city of Memphis, wouldn't be ready for three years. So the club played at the antiquated Pyramid Arena beginning in 2001 for three seasons and lost some $23 million in that time.

When the new arena went up in 2005 it brought in a naming rights contract with FedEx worth $90 million over 20 years. Heisley needed cash immediately, so he cut a deal to securitize that revenue into a bond. Bondholders would get a coupon of $4.5 million a year from FedEx and Heisley got a lump-sum payment of $60 million.

That was the first big mistake, says Grizzlies minority partner Cates. Stripping out that asset has slashed "tens of million of dollars" from the team's value to a prospective buyer, he says. Marc Ganis, a consultant with SportsCorp Ltd. in Chicago, agrees. "He took the quick arena deal, part of a strategy to take as much cash out as possible and then sell, the hallmark of a flipper. Only no one wants to buy it."

Heisley defends the strategy, saying that securitizing the naming rights provided cash to improve the balance sheet and borrow money more cheaply. "Anyone who thinks I put that money in my pocket is crazy," he says.

The first few years in the new building were good for the fans, including a three-year run in the playoffs, but the club still lost bundles of money as it invested heavily in player payroll, which cracked the league's top ten, and paid several million dollars a year in debt service. Plus, there was no getting around the limitations of Memphis: middling household incomes and few large corporate sponsors in western Tennessee to tap beyond FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper ( IP - news - people ) and a couple of others. Frustrating Heisley was the lack of even a single playoff win to show for his expanding payroll.

Heisley began taking matters into his own hands, with mostly disastrous results. He ordered the payroll to be slashed and ran off President Andrew Dolich, who had built a solid initial season ticket base. Respected General Manager Jerry West, a Hall of Fame former player who had put together the Grizzlies playoff roster, walked away, too. By 2006 season ticket sales had dropped from 11,000 to 9,000, and the club's payroll fell into the NBA's bottom five.

The good news for Memphis is its promising young talent: Rudy Gay, O.J. Mayo and the ever improving Marc Gasol. But fans can't count on much help arriving soon. Heisley says he plans to keep the payroll under $50 million, which would keep the Grizzlies near the bottom of the league.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 3:50 PM
Rusty Gull's Avatar
Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
Site 8 Lives
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver's North Shore
Posts: 1,285
I feel sorry for the people of Memphis for having to put up with this lemon of a franchise, and the owner who comes with it - and I can understand perfectly why they are tuning out the Grizzlies.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2010, 4:41 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,691
How is the team currently worth $257mil under these circumstances. I don't get it. How much were the Sonics sold for?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:52 AM
Hot Rod's Avatar
Hot Rod Hot Rod is offline
Big City Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle-Vancouver-Osaka-Chongqing-Chicago-OKC
Posts: 1,179
Sonics were sold for $360M, to Clay Bennett of OKC.

There was also $45M that went to the City of Seattle to move the team "early", settling a lawsuit that OKC most probably would have won but Bennett wanted to be sure to have the team playing in OKC and move immediately. The thought was, even if Bennett has won the lawsuit (which was assumed), Seattle would have countered with appeals which would have made the Sonics stay at least one more year - causing HUGE losses for Bennett in the process. It was a smart but costly move to 1) settle with the city for $45M and 2) to buy the team at $360M in the first place.

I belive the team was valued around $260M or less at the time of purchase IIRC, so the OKC owner overpaid significantly when all is said and done. But apparently, he's doing quite well in OKC. ....

I hope Alquini could get a much better bargain for the Grizzlies. It might just work, since we're in a recession and Heisley would likely hemmoridge out all of his $1.5B worth continueing to prop up the team in Memphis. I could see the team being sold at or slightly below net worth sometime this summer. ......

One thing we might need to work on is the exchange rates/salaries - but couldn't we do the same thing Toronto does? Doesn't seem to be much of a problem there.

I strongly believe Vancouver can totally support NBA and NHL in the fall/winter and MLS and CFL in the summer; especially with all four teams being owned by Alquini.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2010, 4:33 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
^ Well, the Richmond Oval is going to be converted into a community centre with ball courts and stuff. I'm not sure if they will even consider renovating it to become a NBA court since the Oval pretty big @_@
Isn't the Richmond Oval the size of 2 football fields?
Pretty loooong sightlines for a basketball game. Perhaps binoculars would be included with your tickets?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2010, 10:19 PM
dennis1 dennis1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod View Post
Memphis isn't a pro-basketball market - period, it is a huge college bball market. NBA was the wrong league to try to bring to memphis, despite having a large AA community. It also has a LOT OF POOR, so I am not surprised it is up for sale.

Oklahoma City, on the other hand is a complete opposite of Memphis. It has large energy and bioscience (and government) organizations whereas Memphis only has FedEx. and the reason why OKC works is - OKC is one of the biggest college football markets with the OU Sooners, however basketball - well there's room. OKC Thunder does not compete with the OU Sooners. This combined with being larger is why OKC works and Memphis doesn't.

The reason why OKC works and Seattle didn't is Seattle isn't a 3 team city, never has been as Seattle's fanbase is fairweathered and pretentious. There was always a dark horse among the three, and with KeyArena in such bad shape to draw from those corporate sponsors or PROPERLY capture from the luxury segment - the writing was on the wall. On the other hand, OKC has a top arena that is being expanded and upgraded into one of the best in the league. OKC also has committed ownership, any person who thought that the OKC owners would keep the team in Seattle is just a plain idiot. ... This is why, despite being smaller - OKC works and Seattle doesn't.

OKC also did very well when the New Orleans Hornets played there for 2 years, that team didn't even want to leave.

Again, the NBA doesn't compete with the local biggie, OKC has an arena that captures all market segment dollars, local committed ownership, fans looking for major league identity, huge LOCAL (or local interest) corporate sponsorship, and a superstar player(s) (Kevin Durant) - it is no wonder that OKC is such a success. It's also why Portland is successful and has been regardless of having talent on the floor. Cities of our size (between 1M and 4M) need to have all 6 points in place for it to work.

Seattle nor Memphis, nor New Orleans nor Indy have this 'right mix' of the 6 points of success. But Vancouver DOES.

Vancouver doesn't have direct competition, sport wise as there isn't a major collegiate program (or following). that's 1. Vancouver already has a major arena, that with only a slight upgrade would capture all segments of the market. that's 2. Vancouver has committed local ownership. that's 3. Vancouver is already a major league city and with common ownership would minimize 'interference' between the NHL and NBA. that's 4. Vancouver has huge corporations willing to purchase ads and certainly could get marketing from other canadian (and American/multinational) corporations; which actually is the bulk of the NBA's top dollars. That's 5. Now Vancouver ONLY needs to work on 6 - getting a major superstar player(s)/winning team or one in the works.

This is where the problem is, but it is very easy to fix. The Aquilini's could purchase a team (see below) at bargain basement prices, market the team WITH the Canucks, and hire a good GM familiar with Asia/Asian talent - and bring in top Chinese players. They would be identifiable with Vancouver's immediate metro market and certainly would further capture those in Asia. Certainly luring Yao to Vancouver would be an instant hit. There's the 6th point for you. ...

There are many teams struggling: Hornets, Grizzlies, Pacers, Bobcats, Kings, Clippers, Bucks - all come to mind. Those teams just don't have all 6 points of NBA success in place in one form or another. It would be civic justice for the Grizzlies to return to Vancouver (wouldn't even need to change the name). haha

Does anybody know how I could pitch this to Aquilini. have an email?
http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39618

All contacts here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Sports & Outdoor Recreation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:53 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.