Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Yeah, apparently they may expand BMO to 35,000 seats in a few years and to 42,000 by 2026 if rumours are true. Bill Manning straight up admits they don't have enough seats and will have a standing section by 2020 (a long sought after feature by supporters)!

Also interesting was that all games were sold out this year and 25,000 season ticket holders expected next year (from the current 21,000). Average attendance was around 27-28k.

That could very well happen but people need to be patient. IT can take years to build a larger fanbase to justify expanding a facility. MLSE has already expanded BMO a few times and the team is only 11 years old. Typically, when one looks at pro teams expanding their facilities, it takes place over decades, not a few years.

Kansas City is still thinking about expanding their soccer stadium despite a waiting list that has existed for several years. The reason being is the novelty of the new stadium and being on a waiting list is far different than having to slap down actual money for a pair of season tickets. I have heard that they may want to wait and see if the list grows before actually considering expansion.

IN Toronto's case, it might be wise to keep the stadium at it current capacity after this relatively small expansion in the end zones and wait to see if this increased interest in the team is sustainable. Will interest drop off slightly if the team merely makes the playoffs a few years from now rather than be a legitimate title contender? Or will it remain the same or perhaps even grow even with a good (not great) team. A waiting list of several thousand would be desirable before spending tens of millions on yet another major expansion to BMO.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I get your point but still not convinced about consistent sellouts this past season.

I just checked the attendance for NFL teams that have records of hundreds of consecutive sellouts over multiple seasons: Pittsburgh, Denver, Green Bay, Seattle, etc.

They have huge stadiums which account for some degree of variability in attendance yet still the attendance is always in the same vicinity, within a couple hundred at the most. Not 5,000 to 9,000.

And a couple hundred is not much for NFL-sized stadiums that seat 65-80,000 people.

Yeah, pretty well every TFC game had hundreds and occasionally over a thousand tickets available. That is why I question the wisdom of expanding so aggressively in such a short time frame. They need to allow interest in the team to increase organically which may take another decade or so. They team doesn't even have waiting list for season tickets! It would be unwise to expand a stadium given the uncertainty of committed ticket buyers.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by isaidso

If one can get 30,000+ into BMO Field for soccer, attendance below 30,000 isn't a sell out afaic.

Full house = all seats with bums in them.
Sellout= all seats paid for

Once the stadium sells out all seats, it opens up some general admission tickets to the general public.

[Hackslack]

I agree with mistercorporare... weren't the Ticats pretty well calling games as sellouts yet you could tell the vast empty seats. Though the Ticats dont plan on expanding, that I know of, even if they record sellouts.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Full house = all seats with bums in them.
Sellout= all seats paid for

Once the stadium sells out all seats, it opens up some general admission tickets to the general public.

This is a good way to put it!

[WhipperSnapper]

It doesn't take a lot of creativity to turn a non sellout into a sellout either.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...=1#post1857138

[Oilkountry]

Frankie I really hope you didn't use that ^^^photo^^^ as an example to discredit Whippers quote

It doesn't take a lot of creativity to turn a non sellout into a sellout either.

If that's the case let me remind you of something, The Argos played the Grey cup in 2012 at home. They averaged 23,689 fans that season....Here's the grey cup.



Toronto is a weird Sports market.

It was only a few seasons ago MLSE was thinking about rebranding the Raptors. The Jays had Horrible attendance, Even the leaf fans were becoming uninterested. A few notable players and MLSE's brilliant marketing can change things in Toronto very quick. TFC is a perfect example of that what was very niche market is now flourishing in a short time. Raptors were hardly on the Toronto sports market radar and are now breaking attendance records. Mathews has breathed new life in the leafs. the jays are just comming down from Absolute pandemonium. It's no surprise that The Argos are getting lost in that spotlight. I think Toronto should bring in some Big names from the NFL. Or When Ochocinco was looking for a career change they would have brought him in. I think MLSE is gonna turn this Argo situation around with the CFLs version of the "we the north" marketing campaign.

When TFC or The Raptors starts losing Interest will fade. That's the world of pro Sports. Period

[JHikka]

Pretty sure he was posting the picture because it's a badass shot of BMO during the MLS Cup.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Frankie I really hope you didn't use that ^^^photo^^^ as an example to discredit Whippers quote

If that's the case let me remind you of something, The Argos played the Grey cup in 2012 at home. They averaged 23,689 fans that season....Here's the grey cup.

This game was special. Any folks around in Toronto then can remember the CFL did a great job in getting traction here in the market. There was an actual buzz for the 100th Grey Cup here.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pretty sure he was posting the picture because it's a badass shot of BMO during the MLS Cup.

You'd be correct

Not every post in here has to be a bash of something

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pretty sure he was posting the picture because it's a badass shot of BMO during the MLS Cup.

It is a badass pic. The timing of the post is what sparked my comment. If it had nothing to do with the sell out quote then I apologize

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by osmo

This game was special. Any folks around in Toronto then can remember the CFL did a great job in getting traction here in the market. There was an actual buzz for the 100th Grey Cup here.

But 2012 was also a very different time in the Sports scene in Toronto, That sounds odd because it was only 5 years ago. The Argos had a bigger chunk of the pie at 24K in possibly the worst sports atmosphere in North America(Rogers Centre for Football). Part of me wonders what an Argo game would look like today if they Moved to BMO in 2011-2012 Rather than 2015-2016 I just don't feel like The Argos/Bmo situation has even had a chance to Shine Like it would have then and I firmly believe that is all about Timing in A time where Toronto is a Winner in Almost every league. I am really Hoping MLSE fixes the Situation

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I think MLSE is gonna turn this Argo situation around with the CFLs version of the "we the north" marketing campaign.

I really think they should capitalize on 2 things that could potentially spur a lot of pride. They're also things most people don't know.

First, play up the fact that the Toronto Argonauts are the oldest professional football team in north America. They're older than any team in the NFL. Secondly, educate people about football's origins here in central Canada. It is a sport that owes its early development to places like Toronto and Montreal.

Most people assume we imported football from the USA. We didn't. The opposite is more accurate actually. How Canada invented 'American' football, baseball, basketball, and hockey: http://www.cbc.ca/sportslongform/ent...all-and-hockey

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Not every post in here has to be a bash of something

How dare you not bash something in your post.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I really think they should capitalize on 2 things that could potentially spur a lot of pride. They're also things most people don't know.

First, play up the fact that the Toronto Argonauts are the oldest professional football team in north America. They're older than any team in the NFL. Secondly, educate people about football's origins here in central Canada. It is a sport that owes its early development to places like Toronto and Montreal.

Most people assume we imported football from the USA. We didn't. The opposite is more accurate actually. How Canada invented 'American' football, baseball, basketball, and hockey: http://www.cbc.ca/sportslongform/ent...all-and-hockey

Edit- brain fart.

I agree, the sports past is super interesting. As a rugby player as well I can't get enough of reading about the evolutions of the sports.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Edit- brain fart.

I agree, the sports past is super interesting. As a rugby player as well I can't get enough of reading about the evolutions of the sports.

It's one area of north American culture where Canada has contributed massively yet it goes largely unknown, discounted, or dismissed despite heaps of research in the public realm.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I really think they should capitalize on 2 things that could potentially spur a lot of pride. They're also things most people don't know.

First, play up the fact that the Toronto Argonauts are the oldest professional football team in north America. They're older than any team in the NFL. Secondly, educate people about football's origins here in central Canada. It is a sport that owes its early development to places like Toronto and Montreal.

Most people assume we imported football from the USA. We didn't. The opposite is more accurate actually. How Canada invented 'American' football, baseball, basketball, and hockey: http://www.cbc.ca/sportslongform/ent...all-and-hockey

I absolutely fucking hate it when people say that the CFL and Canadian football are copy cats of American football by Canadians just to make ourselves feel different.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I absolutely fucking hate it when people say that the CFL and Canadian football are copy cats of American football by Canadians just to make ourselves feel different.

But obviously the NFL is better. Haven't you seen their salaries!?

/s

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

But obviously the NFL is better. Haven't you seen their salaries!?

/s

better game played by inferior talent

Little optimistic update on the Halifax situation

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...mark-1.4446104

So Halifax becomes 10

Quebec city 11th

what about Victoria?

The islands population is 750K 90% of them within a 2 hour drive to Victoria which has a metro of 350K alone. So you're talking about a market the size of Winnipeg spread out in an area that closely resembles the drive from Regina to Saskatoon. If this model works in Regina and is expected to work in Halifax why wouldn't it work in Victoria?

The bad, Corporate support might be an issue and the BC lions would have to re-brand to the Vancouver Lions if they would even let it happen

The Good, 12 equal Teams in the CFL (assuming QC Also joins), Gives the Lions a natural rival which they Don't have today. It will also give Halifax another Rival. The Pacific vs Atlantic game should be a good one.

Who else could potentially host a team in the future? Moncton comes to mind but I don't think the CFL would be interested in a second maritime team anytime soon. Also that stadium would need a massive retrofit (by that time start from scratch).

Any place in Ontario with the Population that can handle a CFL team either then Mississauga?