Grandview-Woodlands Community Plan

jlousa · #1 Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 6:28 AM**

Well considering the Westend plan thread I started failed to get much attention I'm not sure why I'm posting this one. Maybe it's because I'm optimistic that a couple of the members will enjoy the information and it might one day lead to someone here learning from it and become a better planner themselves.

red-paladin · #2 Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 7:29 AM**

I love the rezoning of the lots adjacent to Commercial-Broadway Station!
I also think highly of the plans for Hastings.

Pinion · #3 Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 9:31 AM**

All the plans to make the area less of a car-infested mess will be a failure as long as those of us who live on one side and work on the other need to get through it. I guess eventually Vancouver will build enough of a moat to kill it from the inside out, then it can be the suburb of Burnaby it so badly wants to be.

edit: sorry for shitting on your thread but my commute through that area is so frustrating.

They're not accepting the reality of what people need to not turn every residential street into a highway.

Millennium2002 · #4 Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 12:24 PM**

I think the plan looks great, especially for the Commercial-Broadway Station area.

As for reducing traffic bottlenecks in that area, I think the sidewalks at Victoria Street can be narrowed a little and a left-turn bay added in both directions; however, as I see it, the old building that Scotiabank is in is partly in the way of this at present. Maybe in the future, we'll see that building taken down and those lanes added in and traffic should move much more efficiently after that.

Another possible improvement might also be a costly one: that is, to dig a tunnel from Great Northern Way to Grandview Highway. This is mostly to take off existing horizontal traffic that has to weave its way through the vertical streets, as well as completing a possible "missing link" in the local road network. At the same time, it'll come with a price tag that may or may not be affordable.

As for improvements at the north end of the neighbourhood... the Powell overpass will help; however, I'm not sure if there is space to bypass Hastings other than perhaps a tunnel at First Street, which is also problematic for cost reasons.

cornholio · #5 Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 8:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I think the plan looks great, especially for the Commercial-Broadway Station area.

As for reducing traffic bottlenecks in that area, I think the sidewalks at Victoria Street can be narrowed a little and a left-turn bay added in both directions; however, as I see it, the old building that Scotiabank is in is partly in the way of this at present. Maybe in the future, we'll see that building taken down and those lanes added in and traffic should move much more efficiently after that.

Another possible improvement might also be a costly one: that is, to dig a tunnel from Great Northern Way to Grandview Highway. This is mostly to take off existing horizontal traffic that has to weave its way through the vertical streets, as well as completing a possible "missing link" in the local road network. At the same time, it'll come with a price tag that may or may not be affordable.

As for improvements at the north end of the neighbourhood... the Powell overpass will help; however, I'm not sure if there is space to bypass Hastings other than perhaps a tunnel at First Street, which is also problematic for cost reasons.

Well the tunnel is already there. You just need to reinforce the sides, shift the tracks over and build your roadway (probably stacked). Then cap it all off and create huge amounts of new park/recreational space above from Nanaimo to Knight Street. As it stands the cut is a waste of rat infested garbage filled space. Its right of way should be better utilized and the thing should be capped of to create actual useful space in some of the densest areas of the city. (of course you will get those that will try to protect this dump and argue some frog or coyote or squatter lives there but if any of you have ever walked through it end to end you would know the place is a disgusting dump with nothing worth protecting, not even the few half sick trees and shrubs that line the excavated clay walls..and I have a walked through it).

It would not be cheap but I don't think it would need to be too expensive either. The right of way and cut is there. Plus think of all that added park space / fields / courts / plazas added.

Millennium2002 · #6 Posted **Jun 7, 2013, 5:36 PM**

There's probably some room on either side or on top of the Grandview Cut for a roadway, but at the same time the railway at the bottom of the cut will most likely get busier in the future, and this does not include the potential for expanded rail service to Washington state. In addition, the Millennium Line isn't helping the situation by occupying the south side of the cut from VCC-Clark to Broadway, which effectively leaves little room for a new road through the cut in that area.

twoNeurons · #7 Posted **Jun 10, 2013, 4:19 AM**

Love the idea of a public plaza at 10th and Commercial.

Also, considering there are two very high capacity rail systems that go through the area, I don't think it's a major deal to make it slower for cars to traverse the area.

Pinion · #8 Posted **Jun 10, 2013, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Love the idea of a public plaza at 10th and Commercial.

Also, considering there are two very high capacity rail systems that go through the area, I don't think it's a major deal to make it slower for cars to traverse the area.

The skytrain just barely skirts the south end of this area. WCE only serves certain eastern suburbs. Once they build a Hastings line that goes over second narrows I'd concede there are alternatives for some white collar workers, but that's still no reason to blockade downtown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

As for improvements at the north end of the neighbourhood... the Powell overpass will help; however, I'm not sure if there is space to bypass Hastings other than perhaps a tunnel at First Street, which is also problematic for cost reasons.

The Powell overpass is for rail, not for anyone else. CP currently doesn't use that line very much - I've been blocked by trains maybe twice in the last year - so we lose the road for a year without any improvements for anyone but CP and PMV. Lost opportunity.

Millennium2002 · #9 Posted **Jun 10, 2013, 8:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinion

The Powell overpass is for rail, not for anyone else. CP currently doesn't use that line very much - I've been blocked by trains maybe twice in the last year - so we lose the road for a year without any improvements for anyone but CP and PMV. Lost opportunity.

I'm assuming you're a little disappointed here because no additional traffic lanes will be crossing the railway overpass compared to now...

Pinion · #10 Posted **Jun 10, 2013, 12:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I'm assuming you're a little disappointed here because no additional traffic lanes will be crossing the railway overpass compared to now...

Yes, and that area was never a problem. It was the only area that isn't regularly congested from Hwy 1 to downtown along the south shore going west.

whatnext · #11 Posted **Jun 10, 2013, 2:26 PM**

From what I saw on the newscasts, there were a lot of residents in the area unhappy with this plan. It will be interesting to see if it will piss off enough of the social activist homeowners in the area to swing their vote away from Vision and over to COPE or the Greens.

twoNeurons · #12 Posted **Jun 11, 2013, 3:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinion

The skytrain just barely skirts the south end of this area. WCE only serves certain eastern suburbs. Once they build a Hastings line that goes over second narrows I'd concede there are alternatives for some white collar workers, but that's still no reason to blockade downtown.

Sorry, by systems i meant two lines... It's a very accessible area for residents.

logan5 · #13 Posted **Jun 11, 2013, 4:38 AM**

By around 2020, the Commercial/Broadway intersection will have RRT radiating in 4 directions giving a very high inbound/outbound capacity. The plan shows only the Safeway site as part of Core Commercial/Broadway TOD area:

Quote:

Mixed-use, mixed scale (27-36 storeys)
Core TOD area in the immediate vicinity of the
station is the most significant in scale and consists
of a combination of highrise and midrise buildings,
with taller forms organized closer to the station.
Lower forms transition away from station.

IMO this is not nearly ambitious enough for this key transit junction. This intersection should at least be on par with the Cambie and Broadway area (as it is envisioned) where the Canada Line and 99 B-Line (and futere Evergreen Line) intersect.

Of course the status quo enforcers will be at full volume, even with this modest plan.

huenthar · #14 Posted **Jun 11, 2013, 6:31 AM**

interesting and awesome to see "future rapid transit" attached to Hastings Street! If this is at all consistent with other area plans, that means "more than just a B-line"

CBeats · #15 Posted **Jun 11, 2013, 7:48 PM**

It's really that stupid view cone that has restricted heights south and east of the transit station. If it weren't there, the zoning would all be dark purple instead of light red.

officedweller · #16 Posted **Jul 9, 2013, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

July 8, 2013
Updated: July 8, 2013 | 7:19 pm

Tall tower debate moves to Vancouver’s Commercial-Broadway transit hub

By Emily Jackson
Metro Vancouver

The city put the brakes on plans to build towers as high as 36 storeys around the Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station after the neighbourhood collectively cried, “How high?!”

Residents balked at the proposed heights, which they were surprised to see after a lengthy consultation that didn’t mention tall towers, when the city released the first draft of its Grandview-Woodland community plan in June.

“The strength of the concern that we heard from the community that has prompted us to take another look at this area,” said Matt Shillito, Vancouver’s assistant director of community planning. “We recognized the depth and the strength of the anxiety the proposals caused.”

The city held a public workshop on Saturday where about 90 residents discussed alternatives to achieve density, including mid-rise buildings from six to 12 storeys.

The maximum height some were able to stomach at the workshop was 22 storeys, he said, though it’s too soon to say where the city will place the limit. Shillito won’t rule out towers altogether.

The neighbourhood’s proximity to one of the region’s busiest SkyTrain stations hallmarks it for higher density under the city’s strategy to concentrate population near transit hubs.

Similar complaints were raised regarding the Oakridge Centre redevelopment along the Canada Line, where many neighbours are resigned to growth but horrified by the idea of skyscrapers.

Council approved plans for towers up to 45 storeys at Oakridge last month.

The city will hold two more public meetings in July before finalizing the Grandview-Woodland plan this fall.

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/7...y-transit-hub/

In my view, as the junction of 2 SkyTrain lines, there should not only be tall towers at Broadway & Commercial, there should be office towers there too.

jlousa · #17 Posted **Jul 9, 2013, 6:08 PM**

I think they made the right move hereby relooking at the plan. You can have a major hub w/o resorting to large towers. Something like the pics BodomReaper posted recently of Quintet in Richmond would land just as much density if not more, yet be more palatable to it's surroundings. I agree that a sizeable amount of office space should be included.

logan5 · #18 Posted **Jul 9, 2013, 7:26 PM**

There are not a lot of opportunities for high density development in the area around the Commercial/Broadway Station. A station that will have a the capacity to bring people in or move people out at a rate of over 100 000 people per hour as there will be high capacity rapid transit radiating away from the station in 4 directions. A luxury not even downtown Vancouver has.

The fact is, more people living in close proximity to a Skytrain station means more people utilizing Skytrain and therefore less people in their cars and on the roads. We should be planning 45 story towers at Commercial/Broadway, where there is far higher capacity than Oakridge.

You could reshape the density into much lower heights but you would inevitably have lower densities because you are still going to want some open space. There is also less opportunity for new public amenities that come with higher densities.

The Safeway site is so well insulated from the rest of the neighborhood - this is the quintessential knee-jerk reaction.

officedweller · #19 Posted **Jul 9, 2013, 7:40 PM**

I think the problem here, as Logan5 has alluded to, is that there's only one site slated to go high (the Safeway site) - so you should make it go as high as you can to maximize density.

They have already compromised and designated all of the remaining sites in the area for midrises, and those can follow the Quintet model to achieve a district-wide higher density.

jlousa · #20 Posted **Jul 9, 2013, 8:27 PM**

Density doesn't equal height. SEFC and Richmond's core will turn out to be much more enjoyable places then Brentwood or Metrotown and they will be densier even though they are in the midrise height range.
I'm a firm beleiver in the mutli-node approach that the region is taking but think they are making a mistake by trying to copy what works downtown elsewhere.