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  #141  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 12:37 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
i've actually met native southerners who think western new york state is paradise. low traffic, clean water, cool summers, snow, lack of endless heat stroke...honestly i've had the same thoughts, coming from st. louis in summer.
Grass is always greener in the neighbor's yard.
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  #142  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 1:41 PM
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Grass is always greener in the neighbor's yard.
Totally... paradise is always over that next hill.

As someone who grew up in the NW PA/Western NY region, it's pretty damn nice in the summer and fall. Really no better area to spend a summer, in my opinion. Winter and spring... well yeah... bit of a different story
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  #143  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 6:55 PM
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It's paradise if you're from Buffalo or Rochester..
I was stationed at Bragg, of course, because if you ain't airborne, you ain't shit, etc etc, and I went to go see the Bears play the Panthers in Charlotte in 2008. Charlotte's not cool, I think everyone has said that- but what also struck me is how many people from Buffalo were there. It was absolutely bizarre. I was told it was something with banking (same reason why there's a bunch in Baltimore, too, but not nearly to Charlotte extents), but I'm still always taken aback when two cities have a connection that I had never considered.
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  #144  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 8:04 PM
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I was stationed at Bragg, of course, because if you ain't airborne, you ain't shit, etc etc, and I went to go see the Bears play the Panthers in Charlotte in 2008. Charlotte's not cool, I think everyone has said that- but what also struck me is how many people from Buffalo were there. It was absolutely bizarre. I was told it was something with banking (same reason why there's a bunch in Baltimore, too, but not nearly to Charlotte extents), but I'm still always taken aback when two cities have a connection that I had never considered.
A lot of companies from NY and PA and OH moved their HQ and/or established operations in NC in the 1980s and 90s. I imagine their must have been some regional banks that were acquired by NC banks in that same period as well. NC was basically offering a couple million bucks and unlimited blowjobs to every medium-sized manufacturing business exec to relocate to the state. I personally know probably 30 people who moved to Charlotte or Cary or Raleigh or wherever in NC in the mid to late 90s, mostly because of corporate relocation from PA and NY.
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  #145  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 8:51 PM
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A lot of companies from NY and PA and OH moved their HQ and/or established operations in NC in the 1980s and 90s. I imagine their must have been some regional banks that were acquired by NC banks in that same period as well. NC was basically offering a couple million bucks and unlimited blowjobs to every medium-sized manufacturing business exec to relocate to the state. I personally know probably 30 people who moved to Charlotte or Cary or Raleigh or wherever in NC in the mid to late 90s, mostly because of corporate relocation from PA and NY.
When I went back to school to get my bachelor's a few years ago, I ended up having to take statistics. My final presentation in the class was a project in which I proved, with graphics, charts, and lots of pictures from here on SSP, that there actually is not a correlation between Buffalo's population loss and Charlotte's population growth.

I was actually rather surprised that that was what the numbers found.
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  #146  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2018, 10:57 PM
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Why stop at stealing people? Architecturally sterile Charlotte would greatly benefit from an incoming stream of old Buffalo buildings.

https://abcnews.go.com/WN/church-mov...ry?id=12081499
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  #147  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 2:02 AM
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When I went back to school to get my bachelor's a few years ago, I ended up having to take statistics. My final presentation in the class was a project in which I proved, with graphics, charts, and lots of pictures from here on SSP, that there actually is not a correlation between Buffalo's population loss and Charlotte's population growth.

I was actually rather surprised that that was what the numbers found.
I think Buffalo’s population loss is much more complex than just people moving to Charlotte. With much of it occurring before Charlotte was really much of a destination for northerners to head to for work or retirement.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 2:25 AM
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My friend who is a native of Florida has often told me what a hell hole the south is because it is so hot and humid for half the year. I have also read that the south only became a popular place to live when refrigeration and air conditioning became widely available. Before that, heat, humidity, pestilence, hurricanes and other bad weather made it a place that most could barely tolerate.


The south gained popularity as old northern industry failed, often moving off-shore and new industry located in the south where unions were less prevalent and gradually anti-union laws were put into place.

As a Canadian, previous generations went to Northern New York because of the textile industries that offered choices and prices not available at home. As those industries closed, Canadians stopped going there, at least, for that reason.


The differences in national trends and labour movements are so evident as Buffalo declined while nearby Toronto boomed. The carrot of more job opportunities and better 'winter' weather that is so appealing to those who live in Buffalo and northern New York in general, is not available to those who live in Toronto.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 2:31 AM
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I recall half-jokingly saying that Willis Carrier (credited with inventing modern air conditioning) and his group should've kept their invention under wraps for a few years, in order to raise capital to buy most of South Florida. A/C single-handedly turned it from an unpleasant to a desirable climate, by fixing its one huge flaw.

BTW, Carrier's HQ'd in..... Charlotte. I just noticed that. (Their commercial division.)
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  #150  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 3:36 AM
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BTW, Carrier's HQ'd in..... Charlotte. I just noticed that. (Their commercial division.)
I think Carrier is a subsidiary of the UTC conglomerate now, which is HQ’d in Connecticut
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  #151  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I recall half-jokingly saying that Willis Carrier (credited with inventing modern air conditioning) and his group should've kept their invention under wraps for a few years, in order to raise capital to buy most of South Florida. A/C single-handedly turned it from an unpleasant to a desirable climate, by fixing its one huge flaw.

BTW, Carrier's HQ'd in..... Charlotte. I just noticed that. (Their commercial division.)
God bless that man. For real.
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  #152  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 8:09 AM
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The level of vitriol aimed at Charlotte in this thread is pretty astounding, even for SSP. I wasn't going to respond at first, but since I'm probably the only person commenting so far that isn't just familiar with Charlotte but also lived there for a couple of years and thoroughly enjoyed it, I figured I should jump into the fray. I didn't intend for this post to be as long as it is, but oh well.

It's already been stated more than a few times that Charlotte was historically a pretty small place. It sprung up from the intersection of two Native trading paths, one of many in the area. The discovery of gold nearby at the turn of the 19th century provided the hamlet with a mini population boom and a branch of the U.S. mint. Charlotte's banking roots can be traced to that event and the the decision by NC leaders to allow branch banking throughout the state not long afterwards, one of only a few states to do sk. The advent of the railroad in the mid-19th century gave the town another economic boost, making it a significant cotton trading center. After the Civil War, Charlotte readily embraced the "New South" economic development model and as a result, it became the hub of the textile industry in the Carolinas with other industries following. Sometime in the 1920's, Charlotte edged out Charleston to become the largest city in the Carolinas. The construction of interstates in Charlotte solidified its position as a logistics center. Banking came to play a more prominent role in Charlotte after an NC-based bank exploited a loophole in banking laws and snapped up a FL-based bank. SCOTUS upheld the move, laws got changed, ambitious bank CEOs (most notably Hugh McColl, who can rightfully be called the father of modern-day Charlotte) starting acquiring banks left and right, and voila--a new national banking center is born. But Hugh McColl (former BOA CEO) didn't just want to build a big national bank; he also wanted to invest in Uptown Charlotte. With two big banks (the other being First Union/Wachovia) one-upping each other in terms of philanthropy and development, Uptown Charlotte benefitted immensely with new sports venues, cultural facilities, hotels, restaurants, etc.

Unfortunately, much of this new development was built on land where historic structures had been razed during the White flight/urban renewal era. The nation's largest cities were the worst offenders during this period as they had more historic structures to raze and did so, but the effects were/are more visible in a historically small city like Charlotte that demolished some real gems and had a much less extensive urban fabric to begin with. In 1950, Charlotte's metropolitan area, like the eight others in the Carolinas at that time, consisted of only its primary county and was just under 200K--yet it was also the largest in the Carolinas followed closely by Greensboro, and Charleston coming in at third.

That said, it's pretty obvious that Charlotte is quite young as a mid-major city and it has more growing to do. Yes, much of Uptown does have a new, sterile quality to it since much of the development is new, but the end result has been more amenities and more residents in modern, mostly attractive buildings with a lot more people out and about after business hours. I'm a fan of Romare Bearden Park, the minor league ballpark, the Mint museums, the Black cultural arts center, Spectrum Center, etc. Light rail has been a catalyst for an unprecedented residential boom in South End just south of Uptown and it was recently extended northward to UNC-Charlotte. More bike lanes are being constructed. The second line of the streetcar is under construction. The greenway system continues to expand. And the region continues to experience rapid economic growth; Charlotte already has a higher GDP per capita than Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Portland.

It was stated earlier in the thread that Charlotte doesn't take enough advantage of all the creeks and streams in the area, an assertion with which I completely disagree. Charlotte/Mecklenburg County has built miles of greenways along its creeks which preserves them while providing recreational uses for residents. The three lakes in the area also provide recreation; I do miss going out to Lake Wylie and doing nothing but looking out over the water...so relaxing.

I like classically urban, more historic cities and I also like newer cities that are developing and urbanizing in significant ways right before my very eyes. What Charlotte lacks in history and urbanity can be experienced just a couple of hours away in Charleston or Asheville or Wilmington. Charlotte's location is excellent, being in relatively close proximity to the sizable cities in the Carolinas, mountains, beaches, and even Atlanta and Savannah. That was one thing I enjoyed about living there, along with the lifelong friendships I made. Would it be cool if Charlotte had more "interesting" things? Sure, but for me, that's not a necessity in terms of day-to-day living. I simply visited other cities here and there when I wanted that and returned to my relatively comfortable life in Charlotte. For me, a normal weekend hitting up Carowinds, catching a Hornets (they were still the Bobcats when I lived there) game, enjoying outings with my Little from BBBS or my mentees from church, jogging along the Little Sugar Creek Greenway, checking out a new restaurant, doing some shopping at South Park or Concord Mills, checking out one of the festivals/special events in Uptown or surrounding areas, doing some volunteer work with my fraternity, going to a bar or club, etc. was more than satisfactory. I understand that for many participants in this thread, all of those things sound outright boring but for me, they were fun times. I've established and strengthened lifelong friendships enjoying those activities and I'm all the better for it.

Another thing I'll say is that living in a place for a few years and getting out there and finding things to do can open yours eyes when it comes to some of the more subtle features and quirks of a city that help define it. I once took a temp job at a warehouse which was like a mini-United Nations; it really opened my eyes to the diversity that exists in Charlotte. Another time I took a seasonal job at a department store and in orientation, I discovered I was surrounded by transplants and they all told their stories about how they wound up in Charlotte, several of which were quite interesting and enlightening. It was astounding to me that more than a few Northerners thought Charlotte was barely a step above being an actual backwater before visiting...like literally. The cultural influence of the United House of Prayer is something not understood or even misunderstood by many non-Black residents and visitors, and even some Black ones. And so on and so forth.

Charlotte doesn't have a dramatic geographic location, unique cultural practices, it never had a large extensive historic urban fabric, etc. All it had was some Scots-Irish Presbyterians, native Blacks, textiles, NASCAR, and pro-business leadership but it took that and made something out of it. From an urban perspective, it simply needs more time to grow up. It has come a long way in the past 20 years and it will go even further in the next 20.
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  #153  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 4:28 PM
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What Charlotte lacks in history and urbanity can be experienced just a couple of hours away in Charleston or Asheville or Wilmington. Charlotte's location is excellent, being in relatively close proximity to the sizable cities in the Carolinas, mountains, beaches, and even Atlanta and Savannah.
I hear what you're saying, but this is one of the things Charlotte boosters always point to as a positive and it irks me. The advertising slogan, "Just two hours from everywhere you'd rather be!" is not a good selling point for a city. When a city has to latch on to other places as its selling point, it just highlights that the city in question is seriously lacking in its own selling points.

Charlotte, like it or not, has a regional and national reputation for being dull. That the city erased about ninety percent of its history does not help, nor does it help that the architecture which replaced the history is lackluster and cheap. Central Charlotte is a wonderland of parking decks and vast plains of blank fake stucco, most of it brown, and charmless glass, most of it blue. To an outsider, Charlotte comes across as a city designed by committee to offend the fewest people possible, and it feels like a new apartment with beige carpet and putty-colored walls, designed not to clash with anything. Charlotte needs more color, and it would help immensely to just turn over the blank slate of Uptown to the artists and let them give the city the enema is so desperately needs. The art on the parking deck at Stonewall Station is a start, but only that. Uptown Charlotte, a retail desert, remains little more than an office park with bars, and it remains an excruciating place to visit. It also does not help that what little soul Charlotte retains is rapidly being torn down in the neighborhoods outside of Uptown, replaced with more Charlotte Boring-style McPartment buildings.

What it comes down to is that Charlotte gets no respect because it looks like, and feels about as real and authentic as a SimCity.
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  #154  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 5:26 PM
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What it comes down to is that Charlotte gets no respect because it looks like, and feels about as real and authentic as a SimCity.
Hey now, a lot of respect and love was put into developing Buckeyeopolis on SC2 (thanks in part to SCURK).
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  #155  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 5:45 PM
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I hear what you're saying, but this is one of the things Charlotte boosters always point to as a positive and it irks me. The advertising slogan, "Just two hours from everywhere you'd rather be!" is not a good selling point for a city. When a city has to latch on to other places as its selling point, it just highlights that the city in question is seriously lacking in its own selling points.

Charlotte, like it or not, has a regional and national reputation for being dull. That the city erased about ninety percent of its history does not help, nor does it help that the architecture which replaced the history is lackluster and cheap. Central Charlotte is a wonderland of parking decks and vast plains of blank fake stucco, most of it brown, and charmless glass, most of it blue. To an outsider, Charlotte comes across as a city designed by committee to offend the fewest people possible, and it feels like a new apartment with beige carpet and putty-colored walls, designed not to clash with anything. Charlotte needs more color, and it would help immensely to just turn over the blank slate of Uptown to the artists and let them give the city the enema is so desperately needs. The art on the parking deck at Stonewall Station is a start, but only that. Uptown Charlotte, a retail desert, remains little more than an office park with bars, and it remains an excruciating place to visit. It also does not help that what little soul Charlotte retains is rapidly being torn down in the neighborhoods outside of Uptown, replaced with more Charlotte Boring-style McPartment buildings.

What it comes down to is that Charlotte gets no respect because it looks like, and feels about as real and authentic as a SimCity.
Present-day Charlotte looks like what it is... a city built by bankers. And bankers aren't really the most vibrant, best looking, nor interesting people, so the city gets its looks and personality honestly.

The best part of Charlotte is probably the kinda quaint little college town of Davidson, NC... just up the road on Lake Norman.
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  #156  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 6:14 PM
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Present-day Charlotte looks like what it is... a city built by bankers. And bankers aren't really the most vibrant, best looking, nor interesting people, so the city gets its looks and personality honestly.
I agree that bankers are some of the most dullest - boring people you will ever encounter. [remember they make money, moving your money around -- why?!]

Could you imagine if Charlotte was a city built by the DMV? Those are some of the worst people in the solar system, including the aliens in the liquid water lake under the polar ice cap of Mars and the moons of Saturn.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 6:17 PM
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I hear what you're saying, but this is one of the things Charlotte boosters always point to as a positive and it irks me. The advertising slogan, "Just two hours from everywhere you'd rather be!" is not a good selling point for a city. When a city has to latch on to other places as its selling point, it just highlights that the city in question is seriously lacking in its own selling points.
This is a complete distortion of that sentiment and I disagree for a number of reasons. Firstly, this is just one of many selling points for Charlotte, not its primary selling point. Secondly, this is not unique to Charlotte whatsoever; this is a major selling point for the major cities in the Bos-Wash corridor for instance. No one city has it all and being in relatively close proximity to other places for a change of scenery every now and then is absolutely a positive. Thirdly, believe it or not, lots of people actually prefer to live in Charlotte and just visit other cities in the region for a variety of reasons. And fourthly, it's a reciprocal relationship as folks from elsewhere in the Carolinas visit Charlotte as well.

Quote:
Charlotte, like it or not, has a regional and national reputation for being dull. That the city erased about ninety percent of its history does not help, nor does it help that the architecture which replaced the history is lackluster and cheap. Central Charlotte is a wonderland of parking decks and vast plains of blank fake stucco, most of it brown, and charmless glass, most of it blue. To an outsider, Charlotte comes across as a city designed by committee to offend the fewest people possible, and it feels like a new apartment with beige carpet and putty-colored walls, designed not to clash with anything. Charlotte needs more color, and it would help immensely to just turn over the blank slate of Uptown to the artists and let them give the city the enema is so desperately needs. The art on the parking deck at Stonewall Station is a start, but only that. Uptown Charlotte, a retail desert, remains little more than an office park with bars, and it remains an excruciating place to visit. It also does not help that what little soul Charlotte retains is rapidly being torn down in the neighborhoods outside of Uptown, replaced with more Charlotte Boring-style McPartment buildings.

What it comes down to is that Charlotte gets no respect because it looks like, and feels about as real and authentic as a SimCity.
Much of what you say is either inaccurate or subjective (and of course you're entitled to your own opinions), but you're only repeating what you've already stated because you see little value in the things I put a higher premium on in a city. I know that people who put having a bunch of historic buildings (and they certainly have their place) a bit lower on their priority list when it comes to evaluating cities or choosing a place to live probably aren't highly regarded by you, but it is what it is. Although I'd choose to live in Charlotte 100 times over Asheville, I'm able to see the niched appeal of Asheville and why some find it an attractive place to live. It's crazy that one day I find myself in a discussion with someone like you that thinks a city like Charlotte is essentially worthless and the next I'm debating someone who thinks a city like Baltimore should essentially be completely leveled. I'm really fascinated by the inability of some to view things beyond their own perspectives and preferences.
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  #158  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 6:28 PM
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Present-day Charlotte looks like what it is... a city built by bankers. And bankers aren't really the most vibrant, best looking, nor interesting people, so the city gets its looks and personality honestly.
It has nothing to do with WHO built Charlotte; it has everything to do with WHEN much of the city was built. The O&G industry built both Tulsa and Houston, but obviously in different eras. And get outside of Uptown and you can see how the textile industry, the railroads, the streetcars, etc. also built Charlotte.
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  #159  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 6:47 PM
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This is a complete distortion of that sentiment and I disagree for a number of reasons. Firstly, this is just one of many selling points for Charlotte, not its primary selling point.
I never said it was Charlotte's primary selling point. I just said it's a bad selling point.

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It's crazy that one day I find myself in a discussion with someone like you that thinks a city like Charlotte is essentially worthless and the next I'm debating someone who thinks a city like Baltimore should essentially be completely leveled.
I never said Charlotte is worthless. I just said it's plain.
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  #160  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2018, 6:56 PM
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Another thing I'll say is that living in a place for a few years and getting out there and finding things to do can open yours eyes when it comes to some of the more subtle features and quirks of a city that help define it. I once took a temp job at a warehouse which was like a mini-United Nations; it really opened my eyes to the diversity that exists in Charlotte. Another time I took a seasonal job at a department store and in orientation, I discovered I was surrounded by transplants and they all told their stories about how they wound up in Charlotte, several of which were quite interesting and enlightening. It was astounding to me that more than a few Northerners thought Charlotte was barely a step above being an actual backwater before visiting...like literally. The cultural influence of the United House of Prayer is something not understood or even misunderstood by many non-Black residents and visitors, and even some Black ones. And so on and so forth.

Charlotte doesn't have a dramatic geographic location, unique cultural practices, it never had a large extensive historic urban fabric, etc. All it had was some Scots-Irish Presbyterians, native Blacks, textiles, NASCAR, and pro-business leadership but it took that and made something out of it. From an urban perspective, it simply needs more time to grow up. It has come a long way in the past 20 years and it will go even further in the next 20.

Good post, and this rings especially true. There's a lot of armchair geographers on this forum, and like you said, there's a depth of understanding that often requires living in a place for a few years to really understand.
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