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  #221  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 9:50 PM
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^ That’s interesting. Is the same thing also happening in Limoges and Casselman? Both look pretty French to me.
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  #222  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 12:41 AM
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^ That’s interesting. Is the same thing also happening in Limoges and Casselman? Both look pretty French to me.
It seems to be happening in Limoges but at a much slower pace and not really at all in Casselman.
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  #223  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 2:50 AM
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It seems to be happening in Limoges but at a much slower pace and not really at all in Casselman.

I'm not sure why, but Embrun seems to be growing more as a bedroom communtiy of Ottawa, while Casselman seems a bit more self-contained.
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  #224  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:08 PM
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This weekend I went back to my hometown of Embrun (an exurb of Ottawa) for a visit. I do every once in a while. The place might as well be the poster child for assimilation of official language minorities in Canada.

The area is historically mostly Franco-Ontarian but that is rapidly changing. Over the last 20 years the francophone percentage has fallen from about 80% to 50% and the average age of the francophone population is now over 10 years higher, with close to 65% of school age children now being anglophone.

Businesses are increasingly operating in English-only. The local Subway restaurant renovated their interior last year, and now the menu board is in English only. In the grocery store, while all the product labels were bilingual, handwritten things (like the little chalkboards where the daily fish selection at the seafood counter is written, for example) were all written in English only. The historically Franco-Ontarian coopérative agricole which runs the store now brands itself as "Co-op Embrun" and its annual meetings are now conducted primarily in English. Even the ads outside the town's caisse populaire were in English only when I last checked.

This transition started when I was in middle school, and at the time, the francophone population reacted quite angrily with lots of protests against businesses that lacked francophone signage and service. Now, that has all quieted down and the growing dominance of English seems to be accepted by everyone.
Yeah, I was in Embrun for a funeral about a year ago and I noticed pretty much the same thing. Though the Caisse populaire thing sounds virtually impossible - they're usually the last holdouts for French and at the very least they'll be rigourously bilingual. Maybe you looked quickly and it's just the English signage you saw.

Another thing I was wondering is doesn't the municipality of Russell have a bilingual sign bylaw? So wouldn't these business have at least some bilingual signage in compliance with that?
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  #225  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:11 PM
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I'm not sure why, but Embrun seems to be growing more as a bedroom communtiy of Ottawa, while Casselman seems a bit more self-contained.
For the moment anyway. The phenomenon simply moved outwards at a slower pace.

Orleans was first, then Rockland and Embrun. Unless something dramatic changes it will be Casselman's turn at some point in the future.

Limoges doesn't really have much of a main street community life BTW.
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  #226  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post

The area is historically mostly Franco-Ontarian but that is rapidly changing. Over the last 20 years the francophone percentage has fallen from about 80% to 50% and the average age of the francophone population is now over 10 years higher, with close to 65% of school age children now being anglophone.

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How do you get access to stats this detailed? Especially given that Embrun is not its own municipality.
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  #227  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post

This transition started when I was in middle school, and at the time, the francophone population reacted quite angrily with lots of protests against businesses that lacked francophone signage and service. Now, that has all quieted down and the growing dominance of English seems to be accepted by everyone.
This happened in Orleans as well about 30-40 years ago.

The organization MIFO which is today basically is about booking francophone shows and running summer daycamps for kids, actually started out as an activist group trying to maintain community life in French.

That's why the name is "Mouvement d'implication francophone d'Orléans".

They didn't protest as much, but trather approached businesses very nicely trying to raise their awareness that they were operating in a community that was (at the) time mainly francophone. That part of their work didn't amount to much as you can see and hear if you visit Orleans today.
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  #228  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:34 PM
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Removed.

EDIT -- I've removed the post since it was instantaneously moved into an obviously irrelevant thread for the purpose of burying any discussion about it.

Last edited by saffronleaf; Mar 26, 2018 at 9:18 PM.
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  #229  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:37 PM
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Pretty sad that an important article highlighting the bigotry in Quebec against racial minorities, Muslims and indigenous peoples gets tucked into a larger thread so it can easily be ignored.

Thanks, mods!
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  #230  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:39 PM
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I don't see the need for us to have multiple threads on the same subject, especially given the negative connotation that is being posited by both the thread title and the title of the article.

Anything relating to immigration in Canada can be discussed in this thread.

If you feel like starting a broader thread on this, and if you feel it's a pertinent current event, I would recommend the Current Events board.
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  #231  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:41 PM
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I don't see the need for us to have multiple threads on the same subject, especially given the negative connotation that is being posited by both the thread title and the title of the article.

Anything relating to immigration in Canada can be discussed in this thread.
So there can be no discussion of Islamophobia, racism and discrimination against indigenous peoples issues except in a megathread discussing StatsCan numbers?

And what is the issue about the negative connotations? If it was a thread praising Canada for inclusiveness, would that have been okay?

I understand the desire for many to hide these issues from the public, which the article itself talks about, but pretty sad that all discussions about discrimination have to be hidden away like this in a StatsCan immigration data thread.

What about indigenous peoples? They're not immigrants and it is not related to immigration. Can that be discussed in a standalone thread?

Whatever, do as you please.
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  #232  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:44 PM
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As the OP, I'd prefer if this thread did not become the "catch-all" thread for everything relating to issues of racism in Canada.

It's about Census data.
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  #233  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:44 PM
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So there can be no discussion of Islamophobia, racism and discrimination against indigenous peoples issues except in a megathread discussing StatsCan numbers?
There is a separate thread for StatCan-specific release. This thread is, and can be, for immigration figures.

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And what is the issue about the negative connotations? If it was a thread praising Canada for inclusiveness, would that have been okay?
If you start a thread with a negative connotation (ex: People in Quebec dislike Muslims more than other Canadians!) it's not going to last long as a thread.

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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
I understand the desire for many to hide these issues from the public, which the article itself talks about, but pretty sad that all discussions about discrimination have to be hidden away like this in a StatsCan immigration data thread.
Deleting your post would have been hiding it. I moved it to this thread instead.
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  #234  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 8:52 PM
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There is a separate thread for StatCan-specific release. This thread is, and can be, for immigration figures.
It's not about immigration -- it's also about visible minorities (many of whom were born here), indigenous peoples (who are not immigrants, surprisingly enough) and Muslims (who are not all immigrants).

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If you start a thread with a negative connotation (ex: People in Quebec dislike Muslims more than other Canadians!) it's not going to last long as a thread.
So we can't discuss any topic that might be critical of a place, even when backed up by data? This is a CBC article and even an uneditorialized version of the title would unfortunately have 'negative connotations' (i.e., facts).

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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Deleting your post would have been hiding it. I moved it to this thread instead.
That's one way, but burying it under irrelevant threads is also another.

Either way, you're the boss. If you've gotta hide threads besmirching Quebec, then go for it. Interestingly, the article itself talks about how common this phenomenon is (of denying and hiding instances of discrimination and alleging that they are ploys to bring the province into disrepute).
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  #235  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
As the OP, I'd prefer if this thread did not become the "catch-all" thread for everything relating to issues of racism in Canada.

It's about Census data.
Thanks, agreed.

I've edited out the post since it was instantaneously moved into an obviously irrelevant thread for the purpose of burying any discussion about it.
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  #236  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 9:29 PM
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Non-official languages spoken most often or regularly at home, Toronto CMA:

Cantonese 234,535
Mandarin 218,170
Punjabi 152,800
Spanish 115,825
Urdu 113,355
Italian 109,730
Tagalog 106,155
Tamil 101,900
Portuguese 87,765
Persian 86,715
Arabic 73,685
Russian 73,215
Gujarati 54,055
Hindi 53,965
Polish 52,955
Korean 49,150
Vietnamese 43,605
Greek 37,865
Bengali 32,980
Romanian 19,640

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...NAMEE=&VNAMEF=

Last edited by Docere; Mar 26, 2018 at 9:48 PM.
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  #237  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Non-official languages spoken most often or regularly at home, Toronto CMA:

Cantonese 234,535
Mandarin 218,170
Punjabi 152,800
Spanish 115,825
Urdu 113,355
Italian 109,730
Tagalog 106,155
Tamil 101,900
Portuguese 87,765
Persian 86,715
Arabic 73,685
Russian 73,215
Gujarati 54,055
Hindi 53,965
Polish 52,955
Korean 49,150
Vietnamese 43,605
Greek 37,865
Bengali 32,980
Romanian 19,640

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...NAMEE=&VNAMEF=
That Spanish is the fourth most spoken non-official language in Toronto after the two Chinese languages and Punjabi seems to be something that might be surprising to some Torontonians at first glance, since Spain and Latin America aren't as on the radar as many other immigrant place origins.

Languages like Italian, Greek, etc. that are less spoken in the city than Spanish seem more played up and more in the limelight to more Torontonians.

Maybe because Spanish presence in the city is a bit newer?
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  #238  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
That Spanish is the fourth most spoken non-official language in Toronto seems after the two Chinese languages and Punjabi seems to be something that might be surprising to some Torontonians at first glance, since Spain and Latin America aren't as on the radar as many other immigrant place origins.

Languages like Italian, Greek, etc. that are less spoken in the city than Spanish seem more played up and more in the limelight to more Torontonians.

Maybe because Spanish presence in the city is a bit newer?
The Chilean component would date, in part, back to the Pinochet days, the Salvadorean to the days of the civil war ('80s - early '90s). One thing we don't seem to be seeing in Canada is a big surge in the past year or two in the numbers of Venezuelans.
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  #239  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
That Spanish is the fourth most spoken non-official language in Toronto after the two Chinese languages and Punjabi seems to be something that might be surprising to some Torontonians at first glance, since Spain and Latin America aren't as on the radar as many other immigrant place origins.

Languages like Italian, Greek, etc. that are less spoken in the city than Spanish seem more played up and more in the limelight to more Torontonians.

Maybe because Spanish presence in the city is a bit newer?
It's definitely newer. Most Italian and Greek immigration was before 1970. Latin American almost all after that.

Toronto is more "known" for its Italian presence too. It is one of the largest centers of the Italian diaspora, the same can't be said for Spanish speakers. They've been around long enough for an "indigenous" Italian Canadian culture to emerge (that isn't necessarily Italian speaking), the same can't be said of Spanish speaking groups.
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  #240  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
The Chilean component would date, in part, back to the Pinochet days, the Salvadorean to the days of the civil war ('80s - early '90s). One thing we don't seem to be seeing in Canada is a big surge in the past year or two in the numbers of Venezuelans.
Colombians are the largest Spanish-speaking immigrant group in Toronto, though no group really dominates that population.
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