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  #201  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 2:53 AM
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  #202  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 3:07 AM
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50% of people who live in Canada I'm sure.

If you were going for 50% of all Canadians, regardless of residence, the dividing line would be even further south, considering that there are at least a million Canadians in the US alone, let alone the diaspora in other more temperate countries as well.......
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  #203  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 4:03 PM
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This is a cool video that shows how Canada's centre of population has shifted over the years. It's pretty much in Thunder Bay now.

Video Link
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  #204  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 4:41 PM
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^interesting
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  #205  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
50% of all Canadians live below 45.7 degrees latitude

wow, I sort of knew this, but to see it represented on a map really hammers that fact home.
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  #206  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 4:44 PM
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50% of Canadians? or people that live in Canada?
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  #207  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
This is a cool video that shows how Canada's centre of population has shifted over the years. It's pretty much in Thunder Bay now.

Video Link
Shit.

If asked to make a "cold" guess I would have guessed somewhere along the Highway 400 corridor, just a a bit north of Canada's Wonderland.

Way off!

Goes to show how you can't always know everything!
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  #208  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 1:58 AM
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Except that video if flat out wrong. The centre of population should have roughly 18.5 million to its east and 18.5 million to its west. That would put it marginally west of Toronto. Likewise it should have roughly 18.5 million further north and 18.5 million further south, that should put it around Parry Sound, Ontario. You'd have all of southern Ontario south of it which is close to 14 million + half of Quebec's population. It would also take in half of Nova Scotia's population.
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  #209  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Except that video if flat out wrong. The centre of population should have roughly 18.5 million to its east and 18.5 million to its west. That would put it marginally west of Toronto. Likewise it should have roughly 18.5 million further north and 18.5 million further south, that should put it around Barrie.
Aha! I knew it!
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  #210  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:05 AM
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Except that video if flat out wrong. The centre of population should have roughly 18.5 million to its east and 18.5 million to its west.
Not true if we are talking about the centre of mass, which also takes distance into account. If a person is farther away, they cause the centre to move more than if they were closer.

As a simple example you can imagine 3 people holding hands and 1 person 1 km away. The centre of mass calculated for this (the same thing as in the video) will have 3 people on one side of it and 1 on the other, not 2 on one and 2 on the other.

It's debatable how meaningful this is, since we get the result we do partly just because Western Canada is more geographically spread out than Eastern Canada.

I'm also not sure what they do about the fact that the earth isn't flat. The weighted average of positions would be under the surface of the earth. You would need to project it up to the surface somehow (or accept more error from your flat model).
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  #211  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 10:34 AM
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Exactly
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  #212  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Except that video if flat out wrong. The centre of population should have roughly 18.5 million to its east and 18.5 million to its west. That would put it marginally west of Toronto. Likewise it should have roughly 18.5 million further north and 18.5 million further south, that should put it around Parry Sound, Ontario. You'd have all of southern Ontario south of it which is close to 14 million + half of Quebec's population. It would also take in half of Nova Scotia's population.
yeah, that makes a lot more sense, because otherwise the video does not square up with the the graph on half of Canada's population being south of the line shown.
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  #213  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:29 PM
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I'm also not sure what they do about the fact that the earth isn't flat. The weighted average of positions would be under the surface of the earth. You would need to project it up to the surface somehow (or accept more error from your flat model).
Why do you say "somehow"? There's only one possible way to project that point on to the surface (namely, radially).

The result would look like "The center of mass of Canada's population is X km under the exact coordinates x.xxxxxxxx N, y.yyyyyyyyyy W."

Interestingly and amusingly, it's very possible that the center of population of Canada could be located in Michigan, USA. Wouldn't take a big difference in population distribution for it to be the case if it's not already. Or Wisconsin, or Minnesota (as Vancouver and Calgary grow in relative weight compared to Southern Ontario and Quebec, it obviously moves it NW).
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  #214  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:33 PM
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I'm smiling at the idea of an otherwise anonymous little Michigan town featuring an official tourist/road sign "This exact location is the Center of Population of Canada".
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  #215  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Not true if we are talking about the centre of mass, which also takes distance into account. If a person is farther away, they cause the centre to move more than if they were closer.

As a simple example you can imagine 3 people holding hands and 1 person 1 km away. The centre of mass calculated for this (the same thing as in the video) will have 3 people on one side of it and 1 on the other, not 2 on one and 2 on the other.
Actually, it can be easily illustrated with ASCII characters


The four stars are people, and distances are to scale:
*.......................................................................*...*.....*


Unweighted: (i.e. defined as the point where you have 50.00% of people on each side)
*.......................................................................*.x.*.....*


Weighted:
*..............................................................x........*...*.....*
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  #216  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Why do you say "somehow"? There's only one possible way to project that point on to the surface (namely, radially).
I have to be careful. I got in trouble on SSP for mentioning spherical geometry a while ago (which is obviously a made up trolling thing and not relevant to discussions of maps and globes!).
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  #217  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
yeah, that makes a lot more sense, because otherwise the video does not square up with the the graph on half of Canada's population being south of the line shown.
Well, now that I've taken a minute to watch the video, I don't think there's any contradiction because even though I don't think they explicitly said it, I agree with someone123 that they seem to use the center of mass of the weighted population distribution.

"The point where you are the closest physically to all Canadians, i.e. if right now you wanted to send 36.3 million blown kisses to them all, this is the precise location that would minimize the total distance traveled by all your kisses"

and

"The point where you have exactly 50.00% of Canadians further north than you, 50.00% of Canadians further south than you, 50.00% of Canadians further east than you, 50.00% of Canadians further west than you"

are not the same.
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  #218  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 6:30 PM
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"The point where you are the closest physically to all Canadians, i.e. if right now you wanted to send 36.3 million blown kisses to them all, this is the precise location that would minimize the total distance traveled by all your kisses"
I know you can't resist to get your digs in (no matter what the issue is, you will always agree to disagree with me, which is tediously tiresome beyond words) but in practice this makes little sense to me, and your example is tantamount to applying ordinary least squares to fit a regression slope in a scatter-plot of observations. it is absurd when the halfway point in sheer numbers is so far to the east.

We could do the same thing for north/South and probably end up with a (useless) centre somewhere in Hudson's Bay.
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Last edited by MolsonExport; Apr 11, 2018 at 6:48 PM.
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  #219  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I know you can't resist to get your digs in (no matter what the issue is, you will always agree to disagree with me...
I don't "always" disagree with you at all. (Only when you're wrong. )

FYI, I didn't even say which of the two methods I prefer, I was just pointing out that they're different. For all you know, I could actually be in agreement with you.

isaidso, Acajack, and yourself all had the position that the video had to be wrong because it was clashing with MonctonRad's map... then someone123 offered an explanation but I guess you missed it (fair enough) so I seconded him.

You're typically a high caliber participant here and I like this community so trust me when I say I wouldn't want to needlessly annoy you. In fact you may recall that when you thought about leaving I PM'd you to tell you you'd be missed and see if you'd reconsider. Not something I've done for other more-or-less-famous SSP Canada departures, I can tell you that...
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  #220  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2018, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I have to be careful. I got in trouble on SSP for mentioning spherical geometry a while ago (which is obviously a made up trolling thing and not relevant to discussions of maps and globes!).
I either missed that or else I don't recall it. From what I know of you I'm pretty sure you were right, regardless of what your position was. I'd probably have backed you up again if I'd seen that thread
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