CFL in the Maritimes

[Wishblade]

[QUOTE=kwajo;3735325]The urban population of Halifax is only 280,000 which is far less than the "3 times" that you claim.QUOTE]

Moncton urban only has about 65,000 people, so it's all in what perspective you look at it.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

The urban population of Halifax is only 280,000 which is far less than the "3 times" that you claim.QUOTE]

Moncton urban only has about 65,000 people, so it's all in what perspective you look at it.

The other perspective is the fact Halifax does not even have a stadium in mind...

No offence but Quebec city with a region of around 900 000 citizens along with the success story provided by the "Rouge et or" would be a better location than Moncton and Halifax merged together.

[kwajo]

[QUOTE=Wishblade;3735618]

Originally Posted by kwajo

The urban population of Halifax is only 280,000 which is far less than the "3 times" that you claim.QUOTE]

Moncton urban only has about 65,000 people, so it's all in what perspective you look at it.

And my perspective is pro-New Brunswick

[Smevo]

First of all, I don't see a team surviving in either city. Since I have too much time on my hands right now, here's some stats comparing Moncton and Halifax, take from them what you will:

Halifax:
CMA - 372,858
CMA Area - 5,495.62
Urban Population - 289,518
(Urban Areas: Halifax, Brookside, Hammond's Plains Road, Lake Echo)
Rural Population - 83,340

Moncton:
CMA - 126,424
CMA Area - 2,405.91
Urban Population - 100,710
(Urban Areas: Moncton, McEwen, Salisbury)
Rural Population - 25,714

Also, though I can't confirm kwajo's assertion of Halifax being 165kms end-to-end, here are the other communities that would come within 165 km or very near for each city, and their population.

Halifax:
Boundaries are Oxford, Pictou County, Annapolis County, Queens County, HRM.
Population within boundaries: 656,041

Moncton:
Boundaries are Queens County PEI, Miramichi, Sunbury County, Saint John, Debert.
Population within boundaries: 569,936

Conclusion: Halifax's and Moncton's potential CFL market are more equal than most realize, and I still think a team wouldn't survive in either one.

Edit: I messed up on the numbers within 165km initially. The difference just brings the two markets closer together.

[Smevo]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

The other perspective is the fact Halifax does not even have a stadium in mind...

No offence but Quebec city with a region of around 900 000 citizens along with the success story provided by the "Rouge et or" would be a better location than Moncton and Halifax merged together.

I agree here, Quebec city would be a more likely success, and will probably get one before Halifax or Moncton unless the commisioner is dead set on having a Maritime team ASAP. I just don't think that's really the case though, seems more of a pipe dream to me.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

The other perspective is the fact Halifax does not even have a stadium in mind...

No offence but Quebec city with a region of around 900 000 citizens along with the success story provided by the "Rouge et or" would be a better location than Moncton and Halifax merged together.

Well, if the commonwealth games didn't fall through, it might have worked out, although it was a terribly expensive route to go.

But all in all, I have no idea why Halifax isn't making immediate plans for a stadium. Fred MacGillvary stated that he'd like to focus on a new arena of about 18,000 seats before focusing on a stadium, so thats all I have to go on for now.

[kirjtc2]

How's this....20 years from now (when Gary Bettman's finally gone and the southern teams inevitably collapse), Halifax gets an NHL team and Moncton gets a CFL team.

Can we call it even?

[Helladog]

Besides population, Moncton will be the only city with a stadium close to the required size. Unfortunatley for Halifax, they dropped the bid for the commonweath games and so went the stadium they were going to get.

I bet if Halifax got their stadium first, we'd be having a much different discussion here.

I'd say Moncton has done well competing with Halifax for entertainment. Halifax needs to give it's leaders a shake and give Moncton a run for it's money in order to stay on top.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Besides population, Moncton will be the only city with a stadium close to the required size. Unfortunatley for Halifax, they dropped the bid for the commonweath games and so went the stadium they were going to get.

I bet if Halifax got their stadium first, we'd be having a much different discussion here.

I'd say Moncton has done well competing with Halifax for entertainment. Halifax needs to give it's leaders a shake and give Moncton a run for it's money in order to stay on top.

Lol i would be happy if that happened. The Halifax Hammerheads with Sidney Crosby as coach and the Moncton Magicians. Now that its settled lets all go celebrate with some Keiths and Mooseheads

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

How's this....20 years from now (when Gary Bettman's finally gone and the southern teams inevitably collapse), Halifax gets an NHL team and Moncton gets a CFL team.

Can we call it even?

We'll call it even...... if Saint John gets a NLL team too.

[Smevo]

Just sign the dotted line.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

No offence but Quebec city with a region of around 900 000 citizens along with the success story provided by the "Rouge et or" would be a better location than Moncton and Halifax merged together.

Very good point Erick. I do agree with you. Once Ottawa gets its franchise re-established, Quebec City will be the largest city in the country without a CFL franchise. In addition, the city has started to develop a real taste for football in the last decade. There would also be a natural rivalry with the Montreal Alouettes. A CFL team in Quebec City would make very good sense.

That being said, any decision regarding expansion of the league would be primarily political. From a political perspective, it would make sense to expand the league to the Maritimes. The league could then say that the CFL extends from coast to coast and would indicate that the league is quite serious about extending its reach to the entire country. I think this would give the Maritimes an advantage on this issue.

Originally Posted by Smevo

Halifax:
Boundaries are Oxford, Pictou County, Annapolis County, Queens County, HRM.
Population within boundaries: 656,041

Moncton:
Boundaries are Queens County PEI, Miramichi, Sunbury County, Saint John, Debert.
Population within boundaries: 569,936

Conclusion: Halifax's and Moncton's potential CFL market are more equal than most realize, and I still think a team wouldn't survive in either one.

Well researched Smevo. As I stated originally, Halifax does not have much of an advantage on this issue. Haligonians are prone to forget that even with a population of about 350,000 people, their dominance as a regional city is somewhat tenuous. Metro Halifax only accounts for about 18% of the population of the Maritime Provinces. Halifax is in fact the least dominant regional city in the country. The local catchment area for Moncton is quite similar to that of Halifax and outside of the immediate catchment area, there are actually more people living within a driveable distance of Moncton than Halifax.

With a 20,000 seat stadium under construction, with a supportive mayor and keen local cabinet ministers, with a well established track record of holding major events drawing tens of thousands of people, Haligonians can not count Moncton out on this issue. We are a serious contender for the CFL

All that being said, I would be quite happy giving Halifax an NHL team if you would let us have the CFL here in Moncton. I promise even to drive down to Halifax 4-5 times a year to go to some of your games.

[mmmatt]

What would they call the team if it came to Moncton?

Perhaps they would name it after a local attraction...

The Moncton Magnetics or The Moncton Bores haha

Maybe the Metro Moncton Maniacs so Dieppe and Riverview would feel more included?

or it could be more broad (which would probably be the case)

the obvious yet boring: The Maritimers! haha

The Lobstermen!
The Atlantic Attackers?

Ive got money on this one though:

The Not.gonna.happen.for.a.very.long.time.ers!

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

What would they call the team if it came to Moncton?

How about the Moncton Retailers?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Helladog

How about the Moncton Retailers?

I'd prefer the Petitcodiac Mudskippers!

[kwajo]

I know you guys aren't technically located on the Bay, but the Petitcodiac is a tidal river, so maybe we could go with a name that eschews Moncton or New Brunswick as the place name, and end up with something simple like the Fundy Tide (I smell a lemony-fresh corporate sponsorship...).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I know you guys aren't technically located on the Bay, but the Petitcodiac is a tidal river, so maybe we could go with a name that eschews Moncton or New Brunswick as the place name, and end up with something simple like the Fundy Tide (I smell a lemony-fresh corporate sponsorship...).

We could take inclusiveness to the extreme (to make even the Haligonians happy) and choose a name such as the "Maritime Lobstermen".

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

We could take inclusiveness to the extreme (to make even the Haligonians happy) and choose a name such as the "Maritime Lobstermen".

Or be really inclusive and make Stephen Harper happy by calling them the Maritime Defeatists

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Or be really inclusive and make Stephen Harper happy by calling them the Maritime Defeatists

Hard to win any games with a name like that, unless we can lull the opposition into a false sense of security.

[someone123]

I guess it's possible that Moncton could get a CFL team, but some of you are just presenting one-sided arguments that fit the conclusion you are looking for. I hear this kind of thing a lot from people from Moncton (or I did when I didn't live on the other side of the country, where nobody even knows it exists).

It's true that Halifax is only about 20% of the population of the region, but what is the percentage for Moncton? It's 1/3 the size of Halifax no matter how you'd like to compare it. Comparing a CMA figure for Moncton to UA for Halifax is silly, and arguments about Halifax being geographically large make no sense when the Moncton CMA is much less densely inhabited. The Halifax CMA in 2006 was 373,000 in 5500 sq km. The Moncton CMA was 126,000 in 2400 sq km, i.e. about one third the population but nearly one half of the area.

I would argue that in terms of reputation, economy, and institutions of virtually any kind Halifax has no real competition within the Maritimes. This is why it is considered the regional city. Halifax has the airport, port, regional offices, hospitals, universities (or rather university - Dalhousie), culture, and some degree of resulting worldliness. It's also the capital of the province that is half of the region, which doesn't hurt. Overall, you have to be in veeeerry heavy denial to think some other city in the Maritimes is roughly comparable. Saint John has not been for 80 years and Moncton has not been ever.

It's fine to be pro-NB or whatever but that does not require shaky arguments and obviously misleading statistics.