High Speed Rail in Canada

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

You know, it wouldn't be entirely unfeasible to have an extension of HSR that runs fro Quebec City to Moncton (or Saint John) to Halifax.

There's no doubt that its feasible to build a HSR into the Maritimes, they main question is it profitable? From what VIA standard rail has shown no its a black whole for money, let alone having purchasing and grading land for a railway right-of-way.

From nearly all measurable standards, Quebec City-Windsor corridor is where any HSR would need to be built. It would need government support, just look at the CPR rail and well as implications for expropriation of private property.

There's clearly the political will in Ontario and Quebec for it to be done, its just getting the Feds onside to pony up the $10s of billions needed for it and being able to deal with the political fallout from the Rest of Canada.

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

As well as Manitoba and Saskatchewan (BC can too, but at least they can build a line south into the US).

Not even close. Regina/Saskatoon/Winnipeg could most certainly support medium speed rail (roughly 200km/hr vs the 300km/hr of HSR), but the population isn't nearly high enough for the expensive stuff.

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Not even close for it to be viable

There has been a few articles indication a future for a high speed rail link between Winnipeg-Minneapolis-Chicago within the next quarter century.

Not sure about Saskatchewan, though.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by Joshy

There has been a few articles indication a future for a high speed rail link between Winnipeg-Minneapolis-Chicago within the next quarter century.

Not sure about Saskatchewan, though.

I'd assume a Saskatchewan line would be Regina-Saskatoon....possibly Regina-Saskatoon-Prince Albert

The combined population of that area is no more than 600,000

Not feasible at all.

[feepa]

There's only 3 real viable areas in Canada for HSR

Winnipeg-Chicago isn't one.

They include:
Windsor to Quebec city.
Vancouver to Seattle.
Edmonton to Calgary.

Out of the 3, maybe only the first one gets built in the next twenty years.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Not even close. Regina/Saskatoon/Winnipeg could most certainly support medium speed rail (roughly 200km/hr vs the 300km/hr of HSR), but the population isn't nearly high enough for the expensive stuff.

So all the cost, but 2/3 the speed. Great! Ya, that makes it real viable! You'd be lucky to even see an acela train (or equilvanent) at 125km/h in your lifetime or your childrens life going between Regina/Saskatoon/Winnipeg.

Sorry... just too sparse and separated of population. Even the Edmonton - Calgary route is a bit of joke (I add this as the Winnipeg people are likely to get their collective panties in a knot as I laid down some more truth above, they usually can't handle the truth)

[SHOFEAR]

Edm to Cal HSR is beyond retarded. I call for a complete ban on mentioning it until both cities have city wide LRT.

How many government funded levels of transportation that have billions upon billions invested do we need to connect the two cities...Airports, Check... Highways, Check...

I'm a civil engineer, infrastructure spending and massive projects gets me horny. But lets see some priorities in the province. You know, like a proper highway to Fort Mac, upgraded heavy rail to Fort Mac, LRT in edm/cal, proper freeways through/around Edm and Cal. The irony is, most of the people who keep bringing up HSR between edm/Cal (especially on this forum) dont even live in this province...they just get off over anything that Europe has.

[jigglysquishy]

I've proven time and time again that Cal/Edm is almost at population density levels to support HSR going by European numbers.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

There's no doubt that its feasible to build a HSR into the Maritimes, they main question is it profitable? From what VIA standard rail has shown no its a black whole for money, let alone having purchasing and grading land for a railway right-of-way.

From nearly all measurable standards, Quebec City-Windsor corridor is where any HSR would need to be built. It would need government support, just look at the CPR rail and well as implications for expropriation of private property.

There's clearly the political will in Ontario and Quebec for it to be done, its just getting the Feds onside to pony up the $10s of billions needed for it and being able to deal with the political fallout from the Rest of Canada.

Mostly due to poor business management. If Canada tried to return to having rail being prominent (it was for most of the early development of this nation) and was inspired and took lessons from Europe, it could easily be viable and profitable, especially with some private sector investment.

And I'm sorry, but screw the piss ants in the rest of Canada. It's not our fault that Quebec City-Windsor is where the population and most Canadians are. If they want in on the action, promote development and attract immigrants/other Canadians to their respective provinces. I'm tired of this selfish behaviour from Canadian provinces.

[thurmas]

Looking at the mess europe is in right now I am not sure we want to emulate their spending practices. The only line that makes sense is Windsor Quebec you guys out east need it since it would create some much needed jobs out there and help Bombardier too.The West is too vast and sparse for HSR and there isn't any real desire for one out here anyways.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Looking at the mess europe is in right now I am not sure we want to emulate their spending practices. The only line that makes sense is Windsor Quebec you guys out east need it since it would create some much needed jobs out there and help Bombardier too.The West is too vast and sparse for HSR and there isn't any real desire for one out here anyways.

Greece's mishandling of its money =/= an efficient, cross-continental and profitable High Speed Rail system.

[jmt18325]

First, it isn't as if it's just Greece that is having money problems. Second, I thing there should be at least T-O-M HSR, but it's going to need to be jointly funded by the Government of Canada, and the provinces of Ontario and Quebec. Right now, only one of those entities can afford it, and even they need to stick to their deficit plan. This just isn't happening in the next decade, if only because if money.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

There is petty regionalism in every country

We are mature enough as a nation to build HSR in the Windsor-Quebec corridor

Yes, but not to the degree it would create. Such is a potential trigger for western separatism if the federal government puts such a huge investment in Ontario and Quebec with nothing elsewhere.

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Yes, but not to the degree it would create. Such is a potential trigger for western separatism if the federal government puts such a huge investment in Ontario and Quebec with nothing elsewhere.

Ontario puts a huge investment in the federal government and get's peanuts back. Once McGuinty's gone it will become especially apparent.

[caltrane74]

How is it gonna create western separatism, Westerners are running the country ?

Also - to be honest, didn't Ontario/Quebec/Atlantic Canada build the rail system in Alberta/BC/Sask and Manitoba when there was no one living there?

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Also - to be honest, didn't Ontario/Quebec/Atlantic Canada build the rail system in Alberta/BC/Sask and Manitoba (to exploit resources to send to factories in eastern Canada) when there was no one living there?

fixed.

I've proven time and time again that Cal/Edm is almost at population density levels to support HSR going by European numbers.

Population? BFD

what about, do those average european cities of 1 million...

...have mass transit to get around each city once you get there,
...have citizens that average two cars per household, not to mention 1.10 gas, etc etc.
...have a RV or trailer on every second drive way resulting in very few people vacationing in each others cities
...have the kind of disposible income we have to fly to mexico for a holiday, not some shitty Griswold like European Vacation.
...have a stupid amount of traffic made up of company vehicles that are required at destinations.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Also - to be honest, didn't Ontario/Quebec/Atlantic Canada build the rail system in Alberta/BC/Sask and Manitoba when there was no one living there?

Well yes, but it was to assert their sovereignty over the west not as some favour to western wheat farmers.

And the fact that Calgary and Edmonton are approaching the thresholds for European high speed rail means absolutely jack. The corridor would have to have much more denisty than supports European rail due to the prevailing mentality in Canada. Europeans are much less likely to own a car, and much more likely to take a train. Canada, Alberta in particular, is a very autocentric place compared to Europe, which makes HSR much less feasible.

Frankly the subject of HSR in Canada only makes sense in one corridor, maybe two and those are the QC-Windsor corridor and the Vancouver-Seattle-Portland corridor, and even the second one is dodgy at best. Our country is just too large for rail travel to make much sense. Its not our fault, it's just the symptom of living in one of the largest most uninhabited countries on earth.

[jigglysquishy]

The first HSR in Canada will be from Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. This is far and away the best line. Adding additions to Windsor and Quebec will come later.

Calgary-Edmonton is more dense than Bologna-Milan and they have a successful HSR.

There's a PDF out there from the Alberta government that talks about the feasibility of HSR. Thousands of people fly/drive between the two cities and funneling them into the HSR is advantageous.

Cal/Edm also need to massively densify their cities/build more transit. Don't make HSR wait for it though.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Calgary-Edmonton is more dense than Bologna-Milan and they have a successful HSR.

This seems hard to believe given the fact that Milan's metropolitan area has a population roughly equal to all of Alberta. On top of this there are the issues of car ownership and connectivity to other rail routes throughout Europe and Canada.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well yes, but it was to assert their sovereignty over the west not as some favour to western wheat farmers.

This doesn't seem very relevant to me. The real question is whether or not the West should participate in funding future nation-building projects along the lines of the old railways, even if they do not directly benefit from each particular project. I think the fact that the region profited from past investment means something regardless of whether or not the East also profited.

[MolsonExport]

metropolitan Milan is 7.4 million people.