New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[logicbomb]

I am never ever voting for the Green party again.

We are now subject to the most incompetent morons running this province again. I had hope that the 2010's NDP would be different than the 90's NDP but assigning Geoff Meggs a Chief of Staff role is one of the most idiotic things Horgan could do and proves that this incarnation will be no different.

Fucking morons. Are we going to see James and Dix gifted cabinet positions now?

[LeftCoaster]

To be honest I'm surprised everyone here didn't see Meggs coming, he's been very open with his provincial aspirations and allegiance to the NDP.

If you take a deep look into a lot of the core who wield power in the NDP Meggs is actually one of the least concerning.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If you take a deep look into a lot of the core who wield power in the NDP Meggs is actually one of the least concerning.

Has taken donation from luxury development lobbyists and those with ties in the taxi industry. He is venomously against Uber and fully backs the taxi industry. He was one of the few on council that initially saw no issue with the real estate market in the past few years.

Let's not forget he has been on record as saying that our road infrastructure is the least of our concerns and has been a proponent of LRT in Surrey.

Lastly, he was deeply entrenched in the Glen Clark administration and has largely developed a reputation of a slime-bag by the way he perceives the general public. Anyone who has been to any meeting with him knows how big of an ass he can be.

But you are right. We are deeply fucked.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Would honestly have made more sense for the Greens to have backed the BC Liberals, especially after the throne speech they tabled.

I'm having some serious buyers remorse right now.

[waves]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I am never ever voting for the Green party again.

We are now subject to the most incompetent morons running this province again. I had hope that the 2010's NDP would be different than the 90's NDP but assigning Geoff Meggs a Chief of Staff role is one of the most idiotic things Horgan could do and proves that this incarnation will be no different.

Fucking morons. Are we going to see James and Dix gifted cabinet positions now?

I am not sure what your expectations were going to be when you voted Green, but at least from my eyes, this is probably the most favourable position for an NDP government to be in from a Liberals perspective. They are at the whim of the Green Party, and, to a degree, the Liberals as well. The NDP won't be able to do just anything they want. Even budget wise, the NDP will have to consult with the Greens.

As for the Surrey LRT I hope the Greens will be the ones to put their foot down and force the NDP to backtrack and do a proper business case.

The Liberals have deservingly got their butt kicked; the NDP will be at the whim of the Greens and Liberals while governing; and the Greens will hopefully keep their campaign promise of evidence based solutions to keep the NDP from making terrible financial decisions.

But, then again, maybe I am being to optimistic.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Would honestly have made more sense for the Greens to have backed the BC Liberals, especially after the throne speech they tabled.

I'm having some serious buyers remorse right now.

I think the only two issues that lead to the collapse of such a partnership were Kinder Morgan and Site C. I think the Green's have a fair position on Site C, but not so fair position on KM. Site C they want to know all the details to see if it should go forward or not, whereas KM it's just been a flat out no. I don't blame them for it though - it would be political suicide against their base, albeit, it would make them massively more attractive to BC Liberal voters.

[Bcasey25raptor]

I really hope the Greens keep the NDP from being too stupid.

My fears are that the greens have shown themselves to be even further left of the NDP which could be even worse for the province then just an NDP majority government would have been.

Honestly the BC Liberals only really pissed me off on welfare issues, housing, and minimum wage policies. Otherwise they did a good job economically and governed sensibly.

The NDP won't do anything about the housing market but allow it to get worse while virtue signalling about the problem.

It'll be like Gregors city council on a province wide scale, an utter disaster.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Seriously, with him being a big part of the show I wouldn't be surprised to see projects such as the North Shore #1 improvements ... being shelved.

That would be one of the few things that would make me mad enough to not vote NDP again, unless they announced north shore skytrain at the same time (still wouldn't vote Liberal though). I generally align with them but don't agree with the anti-road thing. They're not just for cars and are essential for a good economy in a port city.

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

It'll be like Gregors city council on a province wide scale, an utter disaster.

Can we ease off on the hyperbole a bit, nothing has happened yet.

[Bcasey25raptor]

I'll be honestly, I'm being irrational right now, things will probably be alright.

I'm just worried about Geoff Meggs

[waves]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

It'll be like Gregors city council on a province wide scale, an utter disaster.

So long as my milk prices don't go up.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I'll be honestly, I'm being irrational right now, things will probably be alright.

I'm just worried about Geoff Meggs

Although I wanted the Liberals to win, I also want to give the NDP and Greens the benefit of the doubt. I am hoping for them to be more moderate and still understand the importance of roads and industry in our province.

Hiring Meggs though has sent up a huge red flag for me, and is a major step in the wrong direction for winning me over.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Although I wanted the Liberals to win, I also want to give the NDP and Greens the benefit of the doubt. I am hoping for them to be more moderate and still understand the importance of roads and industry in our province.

Hiring Meggs though has sent up a huge red flag for me, and is a major step in the wrong direction for winning me over.

Your reason for wanting the Liberals to win perplexes me in many ways. But fair enough.

I still don't know how much I trust the ndp, they were horrible in the 90s and they have proven to govern from the right much like the Federal Liberals do.

[WarrenC12]

Hoping for the best, fearing for the worst.

The chicken-littles in this forum are a bit laughable though. So far nothing has happened, and the BC Libs tried to copy the NDP-Green platform in their throne speech, so stop putting the cart before the horse.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Hoping for the best, fearing for the worst.

The chicken-littles in this forum are a bit laughable though. So far nothing has happened, and the BC Libs tried to copy the NDP-Green platform in their throne speech, so stop putting the cart before the horse.

The spending plans are solid and make sense if you have a large surplus, the fact the BC Liberals refused to spend even when they were sitting on cash shows me they were governing based on ideology and not for British Columbians.

The NDP brings in similar fear for me since they will also govern based on a certain ideology. It's why deficits balloon during leftist governments because they refuse to make cut backs or they increase taxes to a level that leads to capital flight making such spending plans unworkable.

The Liberals had the taxation and economic stance right mostly, though their major fear of deficits shows me they are ideological purists.

Deficits aren't to be feared unless they exceed your GDP growth.

All I want is a givernment that governs based on common sense, doens't let the poor fall behind, intervenes in the economy when it needs to and stays out when things are working as they should.

I am mostly happy with the Trudeau Liberals though I am disappointed in their spending plans. The BC NDP will likely govern like the federal Trudeau Liberals though one of my fears is the Greens forcing the NDP to go too far left to appease green interests.

The killing of the kinder morgan pipeline alone is stupid politicking, as is the $400 rebate and $10 a day childcare plan that won't be up and running until those who need childcare now no longer need it.

The NDP should drop it's daycare plan and use the money saved to invest in welfare, disability, transit, a renters tax credit, etc.

They need to drop their 2% tax hike on the rich they promise, max tax rates should never exceed 50% of income and if the NDP keeps said tax hike promise the top tax rate will reach that 50% mark, this will scare away higher income productive residents.

Large surplus means most of the NDP agenda can be implemented WITHOUT tax hikes, knowing this, DON'T TOUCH THE TAX RATES.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

The NDP brings in similar fear for me since they will also govern based on a certain ideology. It's why deficits balloon during leftist governments because they refuse to make cut backs or they increase taxes to a level that leads to capital flight making such spending plans unworkable.

The bolded assertion depends on which NDP government you look at. In BC, the Harcourt-run NDP saw the provincial debt drop. Under Glen Clark it ballooned. Under Miller and Dosanjh it dropped some more.

Under the Campbell Liberal government it initially increased, then dropped (but not to levels lower than when Harcourt left government), then increased. Under Christy Clark it's gone up.

If you look at the government program expense to GDP ratio (essentially government spending) then it actually hit its lowest level under Glen Clark at just under 17% of GDP. It's never been lower.

Source: Politics and Performance: British Columbia's Economic and Fiscal Experience under the NDP and BC Liberals 1991-2013

Edit: Basically it depends on which NDP shows up: a Harcourt-style NDP or a Glen Clark-style NDP. Geoff Meggs was Glen Clark's press secretary, so I'm leaning more towards it being a Glen Clark-style NDP.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

The bolded assertion depends on which NDP government you look at. In BC, the Harcourt-run NDP saw the provincial debt drop. Under Glen Clark it ballooned. Under Miller and Dosanjh it dropped some more.

Under the Campbell Liberal government it initially increased, then dropped (but not to levels lower than when Harcourt left government), then increased. Under Christy Clark it's gone up.

If you look at the government program expense to GDP ratio (essentially government spending) then it actually hit its lowest level under Glen Clark at just under 17% of GDP. It's never been lower.

Source: Politics and Performance: British Columbia's Economic and Fiscal Experience under the NDP and BC Liberals 1991-2013

Edit: Basically it depends on which NDP shows up: a Harcourt-style NDP or a Glen Clark-style NDP. Geoff Meggs was Glen Clark's press secretary, so I'm leaning more towards it being a Glen Clark-style NDP.

There is a danger in looking at government from a private sector business perspective because too much of what government does is not short-term "profitable". To really appreciate this point one has to understand that (taxes) in essence, becomes the price paid to operate/survive in government organized/managed/protected political/economic space. This price (re: taxes) is not cheap (especially in terms of maintaining a high quality first-world economic/social environment).

Added to that reality (re: the ever increasing cost of maintaining a high quality first-world environment/infrastructure) is the fact that in a capitalist economy we are faced with a system in which there is GROWING income inequality and attendant GROWING debt which ultimately serves to put adverse pressure on the macro economics of sustainable consumer demand (which is supposed to yield corporate profits and taxes) and individual incomes (which provides for personal income taxes).

Thus, when ever governments are faced with declining taxes/revenues (say within a moribund national/international economy via rising unemployment as a function of private sector efficiency thrusts or debt) they (re: governments) are forced to raise taxes/fees in order to cover their myriad (expensive) non-profitable but vital services on which the private sector depends for survival (e.g. an educated population/workforce/society via properly funded public schools).

If the N.D.P. were to seek to institute higher taxes such tax increases by themselves are not necessarily bad for a given economy IF such revenues are effectively recycled back into the private sector via effective government development programs and policies.

When I taught development economics/economic history within the California state university system I would point to the Republican Eisenhower years of very high (Cold War era) taxes which produced high government spending to boost private sector production and job growth. Point here??....some of America's most prosperous years occurred during the boom years of the 1950's/early 1960's when the U.S. had some of its highest level of government taxes!

[CanSpice]

John Horgan will be sworn in as Premier on July 18.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Would honestly have made more sense for the Greens to have backed the BC Liberals, especially after the throne speech they tabled.

I'm having some serious buyers remorse right now.

You seriously believe the BC Liberals would have followed through on any of that throne speech, as soon as they could rid themselves of the Greens? They didn't change social assistance rates for ten years but all of a sudden "Hallelujah, they've seen the light"!

The BC Liberals govern solely for the interests of their funders: chiefly the real estate and mining industries. Which is why we have outrageous home prices and environmental debacles like Mt. Polley.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You seriously believe the BC Liberals would have followed through on any of that throne speech, as soon as they could rid themselves of the Greens? They didn't change social assistance rates for ten years but all of a sudden "Hallelujah, they've seen the light"!

We'll find out soon just how much the Liberals believed in that throne speech. The NDP are bound to try to do something of theirs from it and it'll be interesting to see how the Liberals react.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Sheba

We'll find out soon just how much the Liberals believed in that throne speech. The NDP are bound to try to do something of theirs from it and it'll be interesting to see how the Liberals react.

My sentiments exactly.