Portland Transit | TriMet/Mass Transit News - Page 152

mike0898 · #**3021** Posted **Jun 4, 2011, 5:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainDog

I have mixed feelings about "Rockwood Sunrise."

I'm all for public art, this piece just seems really out of place. They didn't even integrate the colors elsewhere in the station or anything. It kind of feels as if someone just plopped it there. Maybe it will make more sense when they finish that whole community center there...

I personally don't find it very attractive. It seems out of scale.

2oh1 · #**3022** Posted **Jun 4, 2011, 9:38 PM**

I want to connect a peacock head to it.

PacificNW · #**3023** Posted **Jun 11, 2011, 1:32 AM**

http://vimeo.com/24572222

2oh1 · #**3024** Posted **Sep 11, 2011, 7:34 PM**

It looks like The Portland Streetcar will lose its Free Rail Zone. They're blaming the costly expansion, which makes sense until we consider what expansion really means here. I'm strongly in favor of expanding the Portland Streetcar in Portland. But are we losing our free rail zone in order to afford expanding the Portland Streetcar into Lake Oswego? I find that especially ridiculous being that we're expanding the Portland Streetcar into other cities before we even connect much of Portland!

NOPO? Nope.
NE? Nope.
SE? Not where the population center is. Not even close. Not even "not even close"! But somehow Lake Oswego is a priority?!

I can accept losing the Free Rail Zone if it's needed to help pay for sending the Portland Streetcar down Hawthorne or up to Mississippi. Those are Portland neighborhoods and they deserve to be connected by our Portland Streetcar. But losing our free rail zone to help pay for LAKE OSWEGO?!

NJD · #**3025** Posted **Sep 11, 2011, 9:10 PM**

^ Curious, where is it stated the removal of the Free Rail Zone for the Streetcar is about the on-hold LO expansion? I only see references to the 'costly' Loop expansion.

I do like the equity conversation about free fares, and I believe that notion is fair for the east side.

2oh1 · #**3026** Posted **Sep 11, 2011, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJD

^ Curious, where is it stated the removal of the Free Rail Zone for the Streetcar is about the on-hold LO expansion? I only see references to the 'costly' Loop expansion.

It isn't stated. But I strongly believe it is a factor.

PacificNW · #**3027** Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 1:54 AM**

Metro (Seattle) is eliminating its ride free zone for "all bus and rail lines" in its downtown core because of revenue/costs concerns.... I imagine PDX will be considering doing the same thing.

65MAX · #**3028** Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 6:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1

It isn't stated. But I strongly believe it is a factor.

Simply eliminating Rail Free would come nowhere near being able to make LO Streetcar pencil out. It's being scrapped because it's difficult to justify people on the westside getting free rides while the people on the eastside pay for the exact same service, even the exact same train running in a loop.

It also eliminates the excuse most people use to skip the fare.... "not knowing" where the free zone starts and stops. I think the Rail Free Zone was ill-conceived and I'm glad it's going away, at least for the streetcar. They need to get rid of it for MAX as well.

They also need to simplify the fare structure. $2.10??? Why not $2.13??? That's just assinine. Make it an even $2.00 or AT LEAST round it off to the nearest quarter. How much time is wasted at the ticket machines by people having to fish around for a couple of extra nickels?

PDX City-State · #**3029** Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 6:34 PM**

I agree with the elimination of the free rail zone. If you value public transport, then you should pay for it. It was nice while it lasted, but downtown Portland has changed a lot since the first tracks were laid, and it's totally fare to charge. I'm all for it.

2oh1 · #**3030** Posted **Sep 12, 2011, 6:56 PM**

My real issue isn't the elimination of the free rail zone. It's the mismanagement of the growth of the system. The costs involved never seemed real to me until talk of eliminating the free rail zone came up.

I don't mind paying for the streetcar. Or for any mass transit. And I'll admit that my gripe here is misplaced. I'm bothered by the fact that the system is being expanded into places that aren't Portland while it's also making cutbacks in Portland and squandering opportunities to expand into more of Portland. If they take away the free rail zone to expand the streetcar deeper into SE, NE or NOPO, I'd think it's more than fair. Even if they cancelled the free rail zone AND cancelled the Lake Oswego expansion, I wouldn't mind.

NJD · #**3031** Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 3:35 AM**

^ From what I've found snooping around it costs $5 mil to run the existing Streetcar from a variety of funding sources. The new service, the Loop, which is slated to open in a year has a huge shortfall in funding to operate. The City and Trimet have tapped (redirected-ish) funds from the proposed operating budget to cover PMLR costs as far as I can tell. What's left to cover operations of the new line? Proposed parking meters in the Central Eastside and the removal of the Free Rail Zone for the Streetcar. That is the real reason.

I've found nothing about LO Streetcar construction funding nor operations. In fact the entire project is on hold until LO and Portland further study their own cost, design and planning issues.

Recently the mayor has taken the previously proposed Burnside Streetcar out of the Couplet Project because he thinks East Portland should be the next focus not the Central City. Planners and the City have hinted at the Gateway area and NE Sandy as the nearest term expansions. After that N Williams/ N Vancouver looks like potential...

Regardless, we will not see any expansion in the Streetcar system for several years due to the state of the economy... and Portland's ever-changing priorities (like schools and biking that both conflict with Streetcar expansion but for different reasons).

Honestly I am for an expansion break for economic, slow growth and ideological reasons. Let's utilize and celebrate the Loop when it opens instead of passing it by and looking to the next one!

Anyway, my 2 cents.

65MAX · #**3032** Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 8:12 AM**

^^^^
????
11 years from the initial streetcar to the [near] completion of the loop (14 years till the MLR Bridge opens) is hardly rushing to expand. Why would a moratorium on expanding the streetcar make us appreciate the Loop more? If anything, adding NE Sandy, N Williams/Vancouver and/or Belmont/Hawthorne would make better use of the Loop.

Personally, I think the LO streetcar is dead and buried. There's no way to justify a nearly half billion project to carry that few riders, even if it's not 'really' a half billion. Plus they can get MAX to LO via Milwaukie for half that ($212 million). Why would they opt for the slower, costlier alternative with smaller capacity?

NJD · #**3033** Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 3:54 PM**

^ I do not wish for a moratorium on expansion, but the Streetcar is a development tool: and therefore we need to be patient in order to properly 'value capture' that investment, which can take years (especially in a down economy). Portland is also broke, and we have a lot of services and needs other than development tools to build, maintain and foster.

I agree, the LO Streetcar, in its current form, is dead for the time being. It felt like a rush job, without looking at all the alternatives various people had to offer (Portland has 'too many cooks in the kitchen' sometimes, but hey, that's our democratic culture here, which I appreciate and love).

Anyway, more Streetcars and Light Rail will get built, I'm sure, but it will take years and new funding sources to do it.

Eco_jt · #**3034** Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 4:21 PM**

I wonder how much ridership will go down with the removal of the streetcar from free rail. Also, the proposed increase of the monthly pass from $100 per year to up to $45 per month will deter even more ridership...I guess we'll see what happens.

2oh1 · #**3035** Posted **Sep 13, 2011, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eco_jt

I wonder how much ridership will go down with the removal of the streetcar from free rail. Also, the proposed increase of the monthly pass from $100 per year to up to $45 per month will deter even more ridership...I guess we'll see what happens.

I don't think ridership will decrease as much as one would expect. The system wasn't designed in a way that easily ensures people pay fares, so I suspect that a huge number of people will still ride free. Raising prices that dramatically will encourage more fare jumpers rather than less.

zilfondel · #**3036** Posted **Sep 14, 2011, 7:29 AM**

I've never seen anyone successfully buy a streetcar fare inside the streetcar. Guess we'll see.

Eco_jt · #**3037** Posted **Sep 14, 2011, 7:54 AM**

Maybe it's just me, but I figured one of the main reasons people used it was because it was free in downtown. Do a lot of people cheat and go an extra stop or two?...yeah. But if you take the entire free incentive away it seems like more people will just walk instead because no part of the system is free. Even I admit to only using streetcar as a convenience when it's rolling by rather than a need to get from point A to point B.

Even with a poor method of collecting and inspecting fares, I believe that when people know that it is no longer free they will not bother to hop on.

The people who do honestly use the system with an annual pass, say if you live in NW portland and are commuting to PSU, an increase by as much as 4 times can cause a person to find another means to get to school like walking/biking.

Okstate · #**3038** Posted **Sep 14, 2011, 3:15 PM**

^ Yes. I currently have an annual pass of $100 to go from SW Moody & River Dr. to 23rd & Marshall. It take roughly 5 minutes at least of wait time and 40 minutes once you are on the streetcar. It would be absurd to pay $45/month for that already aweful service. Give me a bike share program any day over that.

2oh1 · #**3039** Posted **Sep 14, 2011, 6:36 PM**

I wonder if there will be a new annual pass. They're talking about $45 a month, but that becomes $540 a year, which is one heck of a steep increase from $100 a year.

digme · #**3040** Posted **Sep 18, 2011, 3:27 PM**

A couple of thoughts.

1) Trimet and the Streetcar need to get on the same page and use the same fare system. Its unnecessarily confusing.

2) Trimet's fare system is odd. I am not familiar with other fare systems out there, but I would be interested to hear some alternatives. My initial thought: $1 for 2 hours of Downtown and CEID rides, $2 for 2 hours rides anywhere else, $5 for an all day pass with bikeshare included.

3) If they are going to charge for the Streetcar, they should improve service. Restripe the streets so the streetcar has a dedicated lane and put in some new stop lights so it has signal priority.

4) They should provide one all day transit/bikeshare ticket per hotel guest in Downtown and CEID. Both are a great way to showcase our city to tourists and we should provide this to them for free.