Big Box at Aberdeen and Longwood - DEAD

[fastcarsfreedom]

For those of you around the Hammer in the 1980s--the Fortinos site was occupied by Slater Steel...hence those lower level loading docks you see if you look eastward on the McKittrick Bridge. I may be wrong, but I believe some of the Slater Steel structure was retained when the site was redeveloped--initially by Quebec-grocer Super C--which sold it's Ontario stores to Loblaws--hence the conversion to Fortinos. St. Hubert BBQ, Belamy's and Carvel Ice Cream where also among the first tenants.

[raisethehammer]

anyone attend the meeting tonight on this??

[matt602]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

For those of you around the Hammer in the 1980s--the Fortinos site was occupied by Slater Steel...hence those lower level loading docks you see if you look eastward on the McKittrick Bridge. I may be wrong, but I believe some of the Slater Steel structure was retained when the site was redeveloped--initially by Quebec-grocer Super C--which sold it's Ontario stores to Loblaws--hence the conversion to Fortinos. St. Hubert BBQ, Belamy's and Carvel Ice Cream where also among the first tenants.

I didn't know any of that. Pretty cool.

[SteelTown]

Developer plans big box stores near innovation park

John Burman
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 11, 2008)

West Hamilton residents are worried about traffic and want to see real jobs created on the land east of the McMaster Innovation Park.

At a public meeting last night, Trinity Development Corp Inc. explained its plans -- a mix of retail and office/commercial uses on a people-friendly streetscape on one side and big box operations on the other -- for part of 15 hectares of land between the innovation park and the CP rail lines.

Residents of the Kirkendall neighbourhood at the information session at St. Joseph's Church were worried about the size of the project and wanted to know about the potential impact of increased traffic at the south end of the project at Aberdeen Avenue. They asked why the project couldn't have some residential development in it.

People were also interested in who the tenants of the project might be -- there have been hints of a big automotive or home renovation type store -- and supported the city's plan for the area to generate employment beyond retail jobs.

"This is not Meadowlands," a development Trinity did in Ancaster, Mike Foley, the developer's associate vice-president of development told the standing room only crowd.

"This is on a much smaller scale," he said, highlighting a scale drawing which placed the development at about a quarter the size of Meadowlands.

Foley, who grew up on Dundurn Street, noted the development could also replace some of the services the neighbourhood has lost over the years such as a hardware store, food store and financial services.

While the streetscape retail and commercial portion of the project fits with the city's holding zoning for what it calls the West Hamilton Innovation District, Trinity's plans to have one or two big box anchor stores does not.

Trinity, which has a conditional offer on the lands, has appealed to the Ontario Municipal Board and a full hearing is tentatively set for next month.

Hamilton planner Al Stewart told the audience the city wants to protect the lands for future employment.

The city's vision is to provide a home close by for the industry and employment growth expected to flow from the McMaster Innovation Park.

While it may take much longer to develop the lands for employment than for retail, Stewart said the city is looking for clean industry with supportive community uses and retail to serve the surrounding area and the innovation park.

"Provincial legislation requires us to protect employment areas," he said. "This is what we are trying to do."

Zach Douglas, president and CEO of the innovation park, told the residents the project is moving along well, with the first research tenants expected to move into the newly renovated red brick former Camco appliances head office building on Longwood Road in April.

Construction should start on the $35 to $40 million CANMET-Materials Technology building, the park's anchor tenant, this fall .

The extension of Frid Street through to Longwood Road should fall between the CANMET building and the Engineering Technology Centre to be built south of CANMET early in 2009.

The park also has an agreement with Hamilton hotelier Oscar Kichi to build a hotel with about 138 units north and east of the red Camco building.

[DC83]

Sweet. Sounds like the Kirkendall neighbours really understand good development!

They asked why the project couldn't have some residential development in it.

I'm feeling pretty positive this development will NOT happen. The OMB wont allow such development esp if the city has it earmarked for PERMANANT jobs!

[highwater]

I'm not as positive as I once was, since according to an article about the meeting at RTH (http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog.asp?id=903), the city is 'supportive' of Trinity's concept although still unwilling to change the zoning. Not sure how that's possible as Trinity's offer on the land is conditional on the zoning change, but then I wasn't there. Also, Mac has promised Trinity that it won't oppose the rezoning! Apparently they've worked out some kind of icky 'deal'. Backroom dealmaking strikes again.

[raisethehammer]

shhh, don't say that too loud. Someone on here might scold you for criticizing the backroom dealing. You and I are the ones who are supposed to shut up and have no input. All the big wigs in town are allowed to have sneaky backroom dealings. Remember, we're the special interest groups, not those with money on the line. Oh wait a minute, I forgot; we're the taxpayers and voters.

[DC83]

hahahaha on the subject of backroom deals and whatnot, if it weren't for "the little guy" or people with "special interests", we would never know DiIanni was a TRUE crook (accepting too much $$$ for his campaign from Losani Homes, & Co).

And he would have gotten away with it, too... if it weren't for that pesky chick (Joanna Chapman)!!

And he'll be running Federally soon! What a joke!

Soooo what's wrong w/ Special Interest Groups? Aren't they in existence to ensure gov'ts act according to voters wishes?

[raisethehammer]

"special interest groups" are actually ordinary joes who care a little about their city or town.
the media and corrupt back-room crowd do a great job trying to paint us joe's as the 'bad guy' in this whole thing we call democracy.

[the dude]

Originally Posted by DC83

I'm feeling pretty positive this development will NOT happen. The OMB wont allow such development esp if the city has it earmarked for PERMANANT jobs!

don't expect the OMB to do you any favours. they exist to allow developers to side-step citizen groups. anyway, it sounds as though the outcome is fairly academic now, so it doesn't really matter.

[SteelTown]

I'm looking at this big box plan that was provided during the meeting and I'm liking it. I like how they'll pay for the Frid St extention and include curb side parking along Frid St. That's a big difference from typical big box format. Plus it's got big sidewalks.

I just have two main issues with this plan though. The enterance I see as a problem from Aberdeen and I would like them to block off the parking lot view from Aberdeen which they don't under the plan.

It'll betcha that either the Beer Store or LCBO will relocate to this area from Dundurn in the future.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I'm looking at this big box plan that was provided during the meeting and I'm liking it. I like how they'll pay for the Frid St extention and include curb side parking along Frid St. That's a big difference from typical big box format. Plus it's got big sidewalks.

I just have two main issues with this plan though. The enterance I see as a problem from Aberdeen and I would like them to block off the parking lot view from Aberdeen which they don't under the plan.

It'll betcha that either the Beer Store or LCBO will relocate to this area from Dundurn in the future.

Any renderings? Would the stores have street-front entrances? I can't see how in this area?

[oldcoote]

RaisetheHammer has links.

The latest site plan is a drastic improvement over the initial one.

That anchor tenant at 92000 square feet? Better not be a WalMart.

[SteelTown]

Yea check out RTH website.

Later on today I'll cut and paste the plans and photos here, just a tad busy at the moment.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

That anchor tenant at 92000 square feet? Better not be a WalMart.

I'm assuming it would be a new, mega-Canadian Tire Store. They said the "major retailer" would be a "major automotive chain". And their new stores are HUGE!

[HAMRetrofit]

Its actually not terrible. It will probally make the MIP more attractive to some.

If the community pushes it to be better it could be great. They should demand higher caliber design like the MIP. The buildings should be LEED certified and encourage more walkability. They should encourage some mixed-use residential space as well. If everyone pushes hard for what they want instead of fighting against it things will be much better off in the end.

The automotive store is probably Partsource.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the MIP running out of space. A new one could always be created elsewhere in the city. There are plenty more brownfields and greyfields to redevelop.

[fastcarsfreedom]

92,000 sq. ft. is WAY too small for Wal*Mart. A Supercenter can run as much as 175,000 sq. ft. Canadian Tire makes potential sense--this would undoubtedly be the relocation from Main and Victoria. I believe Real Canadian Superstore was also discussed at one point for this development. If they continue to work and rework this plan into something that is a positive for this incredible new job/development node in the city, then the result will be positive.

[markbarbera]

If it is Canadian Tire considering this spot, then it would be more likely the relocated Dundas store. The King and Victoria shop is looking to move to Barton and Ferguson.

[SteelTown]

Yea I'm surprised Wal Mart and Canadian Tire is still willing to go to Barton and Ferguson.

[raisethehammer]

no way this is going to happen. It's not easy to just make another MIP somewhere else.
All of this land needs to be incorporated into MIP - Innovation District. We've got enough of this stand-alone development everywhere else in town.
The long term plan for MIP includes streetfront retail, so whoever the retailers are that are interested here, they should work with MIP to land some of those retail spaces.
Don't be fooled by snazzy renderings or talk of LEEDS. Look at their track record. it'll be big box sprawl at it's finest.