When will Canada get a supertall???

[WhipperSnapper]

Jeebus! I used Manhattan in response to your silliness. Where did I mention rental housing?!? Unless .... Co-operatives are owned by the residents and shares, upon approval, are ridiculously expensive.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by DrNest

Well the most expensive penthouse in NYC is more than $100m and 1000ft in the air, so there's definitely a market for the mega-rich high up in 80+ story towers.

Who says there aren't? However, the cat's meow is to have an apartment in the upper west side which is notably prewar and 3 to 15 storeys. The conversation is about Toronto and luxury buildings as a whole instead of just the uppermost suite.

[DrNest]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What you continue to fail to realize with your silly little Manhattan comparison is that the rich want intimacy and control. They certainly do not want to live in a mega structure with hundreds of units. The prestigious properties in Manhattan are the pre-war co-ops that average 10 to 20 storeys with full floor units.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Who says there aren't?

Answered and asked.

The point being that there is a demand in NYC as well as Toronto for luxury highrise condo living. It's only a matter of time before a supertall condo is built in this Toronto. Have a look at One57 or 432Park for example.

[caltrane74]

Took a snap of Holts a couple of days ago

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It is funny to think that the tallest tower in Canada was built way back in the 1970s.

To be fair the current tallest building in the USA was built in the 70's.

Hell, they tallest building(s) in New York City WAS from the 70's, then after they were gone it went all the way back to the 30's.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by DrNest

Answered and asked.

The point being that there is a demand in NYC as well as Toronto for luxury highrise condo living. It's only a matter of time before a supertall condo is built in this Toronto. Have a look at One57 or 432Park for example.

For the last time, the rich largely prefer the intimate pre-war co-ops however, many have to settle for the new condo tower projects. Also, the luxury market in Toronto is possibly overbuilt. Multiple luxury high-rise developments have been cancelled recently due to low demand. This could be perceived as a sign that the boom's end is drawing close.

One57 and 432Park are 800 kms away. How are they examples?

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Multiple luxury high-rise developments have been cancelled recently due to low demand.

Are these cancelled developments publicly known?

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

For the last time, the rich largely prefer the intimate pre-war co-ops however, many have to settle for the new condo tower projects.

You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You can speak for all rich people in NYC?

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Also, the luxury market in Toronto is possibly overbuilt.

You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You realize until now the highrise luxury market in Toronto never really existed. Many empty-nesters are selling up their mansions and moving into the new luxury buildings on the market. Tons of foreign investors are buying them as well seeing as our properties are still considered way undervalued on the global stage.
http://www.thestar.com/living/reales...toronto-luxury

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Multiple luxury high-rise developments have been cancelled recently due to low demand. This could be perceived as a sign that the boom's end is drawing close.

You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You can provide us with the names of these cancelled projects? I bet you can't. This whole boom ending BS in Toronto has been floating around for a decade now.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You can speak for all rich people in NYC?

There are 2 main reasons why rich, often older, people tend to prefer Co-ops in NYC (and they still do; much of the high-end new stuff is co-op):

1) Buyer needs lots of cash on hand. Getting a loan for more than 50% of the purchase price for a co-op is difficult, sometimes getting 25% is hard;
2) Exclusivity. They can be selective about who moves in. Having funds available isn't enough to buy shares in a co-op; you need to make it through their application process and typically need a reference or two from people who already live in the building.

In short, with a co-op you pay millions of dollars so you get to select who your neighbours will be. Since you're selecting a business partner with common liability, you can be very selective. This tends to keep out recent lottery winners and the unruly youth with large inheritance.

It's harder to setup exclusivity in a condominium without running into discrimination laws. You seldom have a multiple-stage interview process focused on your lifestyle with building management and the condominium board before being allowed to purchase a unit.

[DrNest]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

One57 and 432Park are 800 kms away. How are they examples?

One57 will be 1003ft, 432Park is reported to be 1420ft. Both are supertall condos being built for the rich. I state rich, because a person on an average, or even a bit above average salary won't be able to afford to live there. Yet the demand is such that many suites, not just the most expensive penthouse, are sold.

[osmo]

It's no dirty secret the Toronto Condo market is a huge bubble which is about to pop. Its nearly all speculation via extremely nice loan rates. I've had many sources tell me the condo market is toxic and indeed many projects will get shelved once The Feds tighten build finance requirements for new projects. The first super tall in Toronto will be office. There's ligitimate demand for top teir space in the core.

Just drive along the Gardiner at night most building only a quarter of the lights are on if your luck. Complete circus show in the condo market and IMO I can't wait till it ends because the majority of projects have been painfully ugly. High end units will still get built, Yorkville imo will still build up.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by DrNest

One57 will be 1003ft, 432Park is reported to be 1420ft. Both are supertall condos being built for the rich. I state rich, because a person on an average, or even a bit above average salary won't be able to afford to live there. Yet the demand is such that many suites, not just the most expensive penthouse, are sold.

I suspected this but you pretty much now confirmed reading comprehension is not your strongest subject. NEW YORK is not TORONTO!!!!!

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by osmo

It's no dirty secret the Toronto Condo market is a huge bubble which is about to pop. Its nearly all speculation via extremely nice loan rates. I've had many sources tell me the condo market is toxic and indeed many projects will get shelved once The Feds tighten build finance requirements for new projects. The first super tall in Toronto will be office. There's ligitimate demand for top teir space in the core.

Just drive along the Gardiner at night most building only a quarter of the lights are on if your luck. Complete circus show in the condo market and IMO I can't wait till it ends because the majority of projects have been painfully ugly. High end units will still get built, Yorkville imo will still build up.

When the condo market in Toronto collapses I'll eat crow.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You can speak for all rich people in NYC?



You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You realize until now the highrise luxury market in Toronto never really existed. Many empty-nesters are selling up their mansions and moving into the new luxury buildings on the market. Tons of foreign investors are buying them as well seeing as our properties are still considered way undervalued on the global stage.
http://www.thestar.com/living/reales...toronto-luxury



You know this for a fact? Did you read this somewhere? You can provide us with the names of these cancelled projects? I bet you can't. This whole boom ending BS in Toronto has been floating around for a decade now.

No I do not speak for all Manhattanites however, I have picked up a thing or two buying an selling property there.


That's rich ... quoting the Star as a source. All the larger projects mentioned hit sales years ago. Where's the Florian Ph.2, Avendale, or the St Thomas to name a few.

"Undervalued on the global scale"

Are you really that gullable to fall such obvious sensationalism? It's the local employed populace that has an interest in Toronto's real estate beyond profiteering and are suffering barely affording 400 square feet of living space. Yeah, let's strive to be a London.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

"Undervalued on the global scale"

Are you really that gullable to fall such obvious sensationalism? It's the local employed populace that has an interest in Toronto's real estate beyond profiteering and are suffering barely affording 400 square feet of living space. Yeah, let's strive to be a London.

We are, but nobody here wants to be like London. To outside buyers from the middle east, Europe, and the U.S they see Toronto as a bargain. Our 400sq/ft condos are still cheaper then Vancouver's. There was an article out a few years ago saying don't expect things to slow until we max out around 700 per sq/ft on average new builds in the core.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Where's the Florian Ph.2, Avendale, or the St Thomas to name a few.

Out of the over 200 buildings we've had hit sales, be constructed, or u/c right now in Toronto over the past decade you name off three to back your argument of a market on the brink of collapse? I'm pretty sure the Avondale was constructed or is u/c, One St Thomas was built, 2 St Thomas is in sales or u/c. The Florian ph2 I've never heard of.

[whiteford]

i think that the tallest tower ever proposed in Canada was the singer building in Calgary. could happen again although i doubt it would ever be that big of a proposal.

[DrNest]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I suspected this but you pretty much now confirmed reading comprehension is not your strongest subject. NEW YORK is not TORONTO!!!!!

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Or are you too intellectually challenged to even understand your own posts, let alone the conversation being discussed on this thread? Because your replies indicate a combination of the two.

[DrNest]

Now, back to the discussion of a supertall in Canada with the interested formers.
The way the condo market is continuing to grow in Toronto, I believe the first supertall in this city will be residential. Yes there is still a high demand for office space in the downtown core, which to me suggests that a supertall office tower could be built with enough tenants to make it financially viable.
I can't find a reference right now, but I recall reading many years ago that when ScotiaPlaza was being proposed one of the options was for a supertall surpassing FCP in height, but instead the choice was made for a tower slightly shorter, but much more visually stunning.

[Andrewjm3D]

In all honesty I think it will be in Toronto in the form of a not so super looking barely super-tall condo. I would rather see one in Calgary first however as it might push some developers here to really build something with some presence.

If Toronto builds one first it will be no taller then 310m, if Calgary builds one first then Toronto may surpass with something around 350m.

That's just one theory.

[DrNest]

I have the same inclination. Although I would anticipate that Toronto would in say 20 years time have several more supertalls than Calgary.

Which then leads to the next question: Where will the first office or condo tower to break the 400m mark be?