HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Business, Politics & the Economy

About The Ads  This week the ad company used in the forum will be monitoring activity and doing some tests to identify any problems which users may be experiencing. If at any time this week you get pop-ups, redirects, etc. as a result of ads please let us know by sending an email to forum@skyscraperpage.com or post in the ads complaint thread. Thank you for your participation.


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2016, 5:13 AM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,571
Ward boundary alternatives go public

Ward boundary alternatives go public
(Hamilton Spectator, June 10 2016)

Options to rejig Hamilton's ward boundaries range from using a federal riding template to adding an extra ward on the fast-growing Mountain, a review has found.

The interim findings of the city's ongoing ward boundary review went public Thursday, kick-starting three weeks of public meetings for residents to digest the options.

Council narrowly voted to go ahead with the $270,000 review last spring to see if changes would better reflect a shifting population. Right now, populous Ward 7 has 62,000 residents while rural Ward 14 has closer to 17,000.

The consultant report does not recommend an alternative — but does call it "improbable" that the 15 ward status quo is good enough. The alternatives are grouped into four main categories:

• rearrange wards to fall within federal riding boundaries [i.e. Option 1];

• tweak versions of wards to preserve "pre-amalgamation balance" [i.e. Option 2A/B];

• reshape wards with greater emphasis on population fairness [i.e. Option 3A/B];

• add a 16th ward, likely on the Mountain [i.e. Option 4A/B/C].

The review doesn't include options like eliminating wards or carving up the map to ensure each ward has parts of the lower city, Mountain and suburbs.

The consultant says it weighed population with other council principles like preserving community identities. It also notes the old city-suburban model was "built on a deliberate balance" at amalgamation and "It is clear that many present-day Hamiltonians place significant importance on this balance."

If council wants to change ward boundaries in time for the 2018 election it will need to do so by early next year…

Check out preliminary findings of the ward boundary review. Upcoming dates:

•June 11, 12:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. at Tim Hortons Field, 64 Melrose Ave. N;

•June 14, 6-9 p.m., Mountain Arena, 25 Hester St;

•June 16, 6-9 p.m., Ancaster Rotary Centre, 385 Jerseyville Rd;

•June 17, 6-9, Westdale Secondary school, 700 Main St. W.

For a full list, visit hamilton.ca.




Here’s Watson & Associates’ City of Hamilton Ward Boundary Review Interim Report and the associated maps:








__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan

Last edited by thistleclub; Jun 10, 2016 at 5:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2016, 11:04 AM
drpgq drpgq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamilton/Dresden
Posts: 1,599
I don't mind 4C. I think adding a Mountain ward is probably the easiest compromise.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2016, 1:46 AM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,571
Shocker! Council & mayor appear to be nonplussed by the status quo:

Ward 7 Coun. Donna Skelly has the most constituents but says she's not concerned about disproportionate ward populations and doesn't think adding another ward and councillor is the solution.

"There are a lot of expenses with creating another ward," Skelly said. "I'm not so sure that's the best solution, strictly on the fact that it'll cost taxpayers more money."

Skelly is not bothered by rural wards that have appreciably fewer constituents because she says the agricultural community still needs a strong voice.

"Agriculture contributes in excess of a billion dollars to our economy … It's such a unique sector. It's not fair to lump them in with issues of the downtown or in my ward," she said.

"I have the largest ward by far, but we do need to have respect for different parts of the community."

She'd prefer, if there are to be changes, to see a tweaking of the wards.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger doesn't appear overly enthusiastic to tackle ward boundaries but says he's waiting to see what Hamiltonians have to say through public consultation.

"All I will concede is there is a population imbalance," Eisenberger said, adding that deciding what to do if anything is going to be tricky.

"I'm not convinced there'll be massive changes," he said, adding he doesn't think councillors or their constituents have much of an appetite to tackle ward boundaries now when there are so many larger issues at city hall.

"I suspect there'll be no changes this term and I'm doubtful it will happen in the next."
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 8:31 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,182
Here's a good summary and assessment of the OMB hearings on this issue from Joey Coleman.

https://www.thepublicrecord.ca/2017/...gal-precedent/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2017, 11:07 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-Bur-gher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burlington
Posts: 2,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
Here's a good summary and assessment of the OMB hearings on this issue from Joey Coleman.

https://www.thepublicrecord.ca/2017/...gal-precedent/
Thanks for sharing that.

The "amalgamation" city vs. suburb issue is clearly overcooked. It's time for new ingredients to be added to inform ward boundary definitions, and also time that we all look at them as being more fluid (all = residents AND politicians) and responsive to population and socio-demographic change. Respecting historical communities is still important, but should be less so than representation across several population metrics.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 12:50 AM
Dr Awesomesauce's Avatar
Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BEYOND THE OUTER RIM
Posts: 5,388
Wipe all the lines off the map. Councillors too.

Something tells me we'd manage just fine without them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 2:09 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,571
Going off nation-wide norms, Hamilton's council is overstocked. At minimum, amalgamation should have given us one Stoney Creek rep and one Flamborough rep. If you're superstitious, pare it back to 11 wards and we'll be doing just fine.

Toronto (2.81M) = 44 Wards
Montreal (1.71M) = 19 Boroughs
Calgary (1.24M) = 14 Wards
Edmonton (934K) = 12 Wards
Ottawa (883K) = 23 Wards
Mississauga (781K) = 11 Wards
Winnipeg (705K) = 15 Wards
Vancouver (631K) = 10 City-Wide Councillors
Brampton (594K) = 10 Wards with 5 bi-Ward Councillors
Hamilton (537K) = 15 Wards
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 5:31 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,182
If you look at the federal and provincial levels of government we get 1 MP or MPP per 100,000 population, give or take, so I don't see why we would need 1 councilor per 40,000 people. We should reduce the number of councilors to 1 per 50,000 which would give us about 11, plus the mayor. There is absolutely no reason why the citizens can't be well represented by councilors who have constituencies of 50,000.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 6:30 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Wipe all the lines off the map. Councillors too.

Something tells me we'd manage just fine without them.
How would you suggest we run the city without councillors?

I hope to run for councillor one day in Hamilton, and I have a lot of ideas that would in my opinion, better the city. But I feel like right now, nobody of value wants to run in Hamilton because they see it as a waste of time. The councillors now are not that bad in my opinion, but I want to see harder working councillors. I am tired of old white men holding councillor positions and just sitting back and taking money. Being a politician sucks and I want to respect them for their effort, but I think more actual progress needs to be made.

Hamilton needs a council with real vision of a better Hamilton.
__________________
McMaster University Graduate Political Science, Minor in Geography.

My goal is to improve my community, the transit we use to get around it, and the health and happiness of everyone in it, and I realize these are all interconnected.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 7:44 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 18,842
You can change the ward boundaries, however once a councillor has been elected they almost never get defeated. The race is only competitive if a councillor doesn't run for re-election. The whole annual area rating allotment money certainly didn't improve the situation.

A real positive change would be introducing term limits.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 9:22 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
You can change the ward boundaries, however once a councillor has been elected they almost never get defeated. The race is only competitive if a councillor doesn't run for re-election. The whole annual area rating allotment money certainly didn't improve the situation.

A real positive change would be introducing term limits.
Term limits will never happen. The province has already said that they will not allow it. Besides that there may be constitutional implications to prohibiting a citizen from running for office. It's undemocratic and unnecessary as far as I am concerned. If someone votes for the same person over and over again that is their right whether opponents like it or not. Punishing winners is not what we do in a democracy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2017, 11:04 PM
Dr Awesomesauce's Avatar
Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BEYOND THE OUTER RIM
Posts: 5,388
@TheRitsman 'I hope to run for councillor one day in Hamilton...'

Don't do it!

Get a real job. Be productive. Do good things.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 1:04 AM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
If you look at the federal and provincial levels of government we get 1 MP or MPP per 100,000 population, give or take, so I don't see why we would need 1 councilor per 40,000 people. We should reduce the number of councilors to 1 per 50,000 which would give us about 11, plus the mayor. There is absolutely no reason why the citizens can't be well represented by councilors who have constituencies of 50,000.
If you treat Vancouver's councillors as surrogate wards, the above sample of Canada's nine largest cities works out to an average ward population of around 66,000.

If you factor in Brampton's bi-ward councillors, the above sample of Canada's nine largest cities works out to an average population of roughly 73,000 per councillor.

Hamilton, meanwhile, comes in at around half that.
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 9:37 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
If you treat Vancouver's councillors as surrogate wards, the above sample of Canada's nine largest cities works out to an average ward population of around 66,000.

If you factor in Brampton's bi-ward councillors, the above sample of Canada's nine largest cities works out to an average population of roughly 73,000 per councillor.

Hamilton, meanwhile, comes in at around half that.
I picked 50k because it's a nice round number, that's all. As long as the wards are of equal size I don't really care what size they are.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 2:11 AM
mattgrande's Avatar
mattgrande mattgrande is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
Going off nation-wide norms, Hamilton's council is overstocked. At minimum, amalgamation should have given us one Stoney Creek rep and one Flamborough rep. If you're superstitious, pare it back to 11 wards and we'll be doing just fine.

Toronto (2.81M) = 44 Wards
Montreal (1.71M) = 19 Boroughs
Calgary (1.24M) = 14 Wards
Edmonton (934K) = 12 Wards
Ottawa (883K) = 23 Wards
Mississauga (781K) = 11 Wards
Winnipeg (705K) = 15 Wards
Vancouver (631K) = 10 City-Wide Councillors
Brampton (594K) = 10 Wards with 5 bi-Ward Councillors
Hamilton (537K) = 15 Wards
I was in Belfast this summer and visited their City Hall. For a population of 333,871, they have sixty seats. I couldn't believe it!
__________________
Livin' At The Corner Of Dude And Catastrophe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2017, 10:58 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,182
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2017, 12:46 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 18,842
Good, the Mountain is way overdue for another ward.

9 inner city wards and 6 suburban/rural wards, that's A-okay with me
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2017, 4:39 AM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-Bur-gher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burlington
Posts: 2,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
Brenda Johnson, Ward 11 councillor, understands dividing her ward. But she's not happy with the loss of the rural Flamborough ward either.

"People in the rural area have very little voice to begin with," she said.

Uh, no. Actually their voice has been relatively larger than that of others in the city, Brenda. There's this concept called representation by population in our democratic system... perhaps you're familiar with it?

And I get that she's probably referring to the transfer of one council seat from the ring of original suburban municipalities to the area that was the pre-amalgamation City of Hamilton, but if you take "rural" literally there will now be FIVE councilors who have wards that cover large tracts of rural land, up one from before (or six, if you consider the new Ward 10 is still urbanizing between Fruitland and Fifty roads)... it's just that they all have an urban portion they must represent.

Last edited by ScreamingViking; Dec 13, 2017 at 5:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2017, 9:48 AM
drpgq drpgq is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamilton/Dresden
Posts: 1,599
I'm wondering if now area rating for the HSR can be changed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 1:06 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 18,842
Now that we got the ward boundary settled, can we start selecting names for each ward instead of just numbering each war, so uncreative.

Under the new ward boundary looks like I went from being in Ward 8 to now being part of Ward 14. Yet Ward 9 is way over on the other end as Stoney Creek Mountain.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Business, Politics & the Economy
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:52 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.