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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
There are some that can't talk about cc redevelopment without mentioning Calgary. These are crotch watchers...worried what is between their legs does not compare with what the next guy has. Get over it already...and talk about EDMONTON. Your dick won't get any bigger.
That's uncalled for. I was making a simple comparison of what exists in two Albertan cities. If you read my post, I said the Calgary experience isn't the be all end all. If that's dick measuring...
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 6:34 PM
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It's not so much the malls fault as it is the design - I assume the entrance we are referring to is the one by CBC. My experience is lots of people from the streets come in to sit around the fire place that is there.

Also, it's sort of a dead zone in the whole mall - with not too many stores fronting the long hallway leading up to the entrance.

Go 100 feet west of that entrance, and it's crazy busy. In my experience.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 8:35 PM
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TThe number of dodgy people purely loitering about in the mall and lack of meaningful security presence doesn't exactly encourage one to linger and shop. And where the heck do all the low-end gangsta wannabees come from?

I noticed this, too. Seems worse than ever.

My theory is that mall security is letting people loiter. it seemed to start after they kicked that outreach out of the food court which it resulted that big news story about how poorly the mall treats the "vulnerable" members of society.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 8:53 PM
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I'm sure this is also a fairly regular occurrence at CC. Think this happens at Southgate?


Video Link
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 9:11 PM
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^ That video clearly says it occurred in Winnipeg. Now you're just grasping.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 9:20 PM
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 9:28 PM
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^ That video clearly says it occurred in Winnipeg. Now you're just grasping.
I know it's Winnipeg. But that's the kind of perception a lot of people have of the place when you allow it to become the hangout it has.

The amount of people casually hanging out in there with various mental/social issues prevents it from reaching it's potential. It may not prevent you from going there and it may not prevent me from going there....but it does lead to an image problem that prevents a lot of people from going there.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:10 AM
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The amount of people casually hanging out in there with various mental/social issues prevents it from reaching it's potential. It may not prevent you from going there and it may not prevent me from going there....but it does lead to an image problem that prevents a lot of people from going there.
Then it's time to change people's perceptions, because it's not a problem that can just be swept under the rug. Never in history anywhere has further marginalizing, segregating, or excluding people improved anyone's situation, not even that of those who are simply uncomfortable by their presence; why would we suddenly expect it would fix a shopping mall?
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
I know it's Winnipeg. But that's the kind of perception a lot of people have of the place when you allow it to become the hangout it has.

The amount of people casually hanging out in there with various mental/social issues prevents it from reaching it's potential. It may not prevent you from going there and it may not prevent me from going there....but it does lead to an image problem that prevents a lot of people from going there.
You are 100% correct. My wife and I used to go here more often. I am still in the mall pretty much every day, however my wife refuses to go but just 2 years ago would go there daily. She now prefers to go to somewhere else. Heck being there at say 1:30 in the afternoon during a workday and it can seem that way. Not being dramatic but sometimes perception can become realty. lets hope we can work to get rid of this perception. My wife getting badgered at the mall for change or in the pedway between the mall and Sutton Place hotel is not a good sign. Then the time she had to run out of Tim Hortons as a homeless guy was would not leave her alone. One time to many and she wont go. Just before anyone says anything we live downtown and raising our little guy downtown. Plus currently in the market for a larger place downtown and she will not live in any other part of the city. However as a woman will not go to the mall at may times of the day. That says something to me that we need to work on.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:27 AM
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Then it's time to change people's perceptions, because it's not a problem that can just be swept under the rug. Never in history anywhere has further marginalizing, segregating, or excluding people improved anyone's situation, not even that of those who are simply uncomfortable by their presence; why would we suddenly expect it would fix a shopping mall?
Well for many if they were not there disturbing people they would go more often shop and spend more thus helping the retailers in the mall be more successful which builds upon itself. It becomes a self fulfilling thing.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:41 AM
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And again, that won't be achieved by continuing the cycle of marginalizing and excluding.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:02 AM
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No to deal with the issue is not hide it nor is it allow them to go accosting people either. It is not the mall that should deal with that problem but a society thing. As a mall they need to make things comfortable for their customers. People loitering does not do that and chases them away. Therefore for the mall yes the answer is to get them out of there. However society as a whole being the different levels of government and as people must deal with it.
They are two separate things.

For example my brother does not let homeless guys set up and live on his front lawn or shack up in his bedroom (so the mall should not allow them to loiter and pester people) However he does organize and throw 2 lunches and 2 dinners a month at the homeless shelters (mall and society giving help for the mentally ill, homeless etc).

Its not one or the other. But we have to deal with each one on a separate level.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:39 AM
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And again, that won't be achieved by continuing the cycle of marginalizing and excluding.
You are telling us that society has to make it acceptable for people to shit in public. This is a non-starter for me. There are certain rules (like not shitting in public) within society that everyone needs to follow, period. Harassing other people for things is also unacceptable.

If I saw that guy in the video doing that with my own eyes I would have yelled at him and called the cops.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 2:38 PM
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And again, that won't be achieved by continuing the cycle of marginalizing and excluding.
Yeah well, this cycle will go on regardless. You might as well try to eat through your ass and shit through your mouth...Cause there is about as good of chance as reversing that as their is reversing the social injustices that you crusade against.

I want nice things, and I wont apologize for it.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
There are some that can't talk about cc redevelopment without mentioning Calgary. These are crotch watchers...worried what is between their legs does not compare with what the next guy has. Get over it already...and talk about EDMONTON. Your dick won't get any bigger.
Brilliant! Posts like this diminish the credibility of the site.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Yeah well, this cycle will go on regardless. You might as well try to eat through your ass and shit through your mouth...Cause there is about as good of chance as reversing that as their is reversing the social injustices that you crusade against.

I want nice things, and I wont apologize for it.
Exactly. This isn't about marginalizing or excluding, it is about zero tolerance to aggression, criminal activity, harassment, vandalism, shitting in public, etc.

I have no patience for people who prey on others or think it is acceptable to be complete assholes in public.

Also, through observation it is clear that our younger aboriginal population is more at risk for becoming involved in this activity.

Clearly we need to address these issues.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:03 PM
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I don't buy it. Most of the time the people that are uncomfortable feel that way not because of agression, criminal activity, harassment, vandalism and shitting in public. It is because somebody asked them for change, or looked a certain way.

I don't think anybody is trying to say that shitting in public is okay. While these things do actually happen, what people actually want to be comfortable is typically to not see these people and pretend they don't exist. So yeah, while intentional or not these conversations do usually boil down to, excluding certian people so that some people can be more comfortable. Just because some people aren't okay with that doesn't mean we want planters to become toilets.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:06 PM
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Holy crap....can we get back to talking about development?
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
I noticed this, too. Seems worse than ever.

My theory is that mall security is letting people loiter. it seemed to start after they kicked that outreach out of the food court which it resulted that big news story about how poorly the mall treats the "vulnerable" members of society.
It isn't the vulnerable members of society, it was the racial profiling of aboriginal community members as trouble makers or undesirables.

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Holy crap....can we get back to talking about development?

Perhaps.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2015, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by itom 987 View Post
You are telling us that society has to make it acceptable for people to shit in public.
That's not even remotely what I'm saying and you know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Yeah well, this cycle will go on regardless. You might as well try to eat through your ass and shit through your mouth...Cause there is about as good of chance as reversing that as their is reversing the social injustices that you crusade against.
With that kind of attitude, no, you're absolutely right. Nothing will change if no one wants things to change or doesn't believe they can. These kinds of issues are addressed very well in other cities and countries via social services and programs, while we cynically believe we can't make a difference here. Makes no sense.

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I want nice things, and I wont apologize for it.
I want nice things, too. I wouldn't ask you to apologize for it. But we don't have to sacrifice other people having nice things so that you or I can have them.
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