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  #341  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Uhh, well first of all, Windsor's latitude is more in line with Medford Oregon than anywhere in NoCal.

Second, that's a bit hyperbolic, Windsor is about 7°F warmer than Moscow year round and has nowhere near the kind of climate in the colder parts of Russia.

Also, Florida is the "sunshine" state.
The southern part of our county does go further south than the Northern California border though
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Last edited by north 42; Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM.
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  #342  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Docta_Love View Post
I'm not an expert on Eurasian climate although it does bear similarity to central north america however there isn't a gulf of mexico to help balance the arctic ocean on its northern flank. Further more the LP of MI and the "peninsula" that Windsor-Essex sits on help moderate the extremes of summer and winter. It's not a huge degree but when a arctic front sweeps down not only do the clouds created by the cold air passing over the lakes help insulate from the initial blast but the large bodies of water themselves have an effect (unless they freeze up like they do every so often when although much more rarely these days). I lost my young windmill palm in the record breaking winter several years ago although i made a mistake and it would have survived outdoors with protection instead i had it in our unheated sun room all winter and it was killed during a freak April cold snap when i accidentally left the window open all night next to it during a high wind/snow event after a 70 degree day 2 days before.

During many of the worst cold snaps places like Indy and Chicago will be colder especially at night than Detroit-Windsor, looking at maps during these events it almost seems like the worst cold air has to navigate down and around lake Michigan before coming up from the south to reach SE MI & SW ONT slightly moderating all the time.

I digress though the Detroit - Windsor area has a micro climate that is 6b in the city and near lake st clair and 6a over the rest (i think Windsor is 6b as well). Oddly enough 6b climate zone is the same as most of Kentucky southern Missouri and southern Kansas and 6a is found in areas like Nashville the Texas panhandle and high plains of New Mexico.







Moscow is a urban heat island 5 surrounded by 4 while Detroit-Windsor is a 6a-6b would be more like the Black Sea coast or most of Crimea aka the Soviet Riviera which has palm trees too, although only naturally occurring in the Sevastopol-Yalta area.
Yep, the Detroit/Windsor area is quite a bit milder than what most people think, 6b, like you posted. We can grow many plants here that can't be grown further to the north of us like evergreen Southern Magnolia, exotic Mimosa Trees, fruiting Fig Trees, various Yuccas, and some small hardy unprotected palms, like Needle Palms and Sabal Minor can survive for years with good siting before succumbing to extreme cold events.
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  #343  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 1:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mcminsen View Post
More Vancouver palms, and a few banana trees too.



English Bay Beach, Vancouver, June 20 '15, my pic




East Vancouver, Sept.5 '15, my pic



East Vancouver, Sept.5 '15, my pic

wow, what a beach! i but sunsets here are awesome, assuming this faces west by those waves and departing container ships.
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  #344  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 1:52 AM
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Palm trees look so incredibly silly and incongruent there. It's a bit of a reach.
silence, non believer..........
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  #345  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 3:14 AM
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wow, what a beach! i but sunsets here are awesome, assuming this faces west by those waves and departing container ships.
yup


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  #346  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 12:25 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hardy_palms

I actually left out the concise point i was trying to make in my earlier post that is actually is possible to grow some kinds of palms outdoors in the Detroit - Windsor area just barely u need to protect them in winter with a burlap outer layer and a mulch interior if i remember the advice from a (Windsorite?). This actually goes for many areas of the northeast and midwest however technically a small area around lake st clair and the detroit river of the metro area where the water tends to keep nigh time lows slightly warmer in the winter that theoretically some of the cold hearty palms could grow without protection. I don't think it would go well though because while some palms can grow an do as far north as the Tennessee and Ohio Valley's but while maximum night time low temps may be the same a 6a in climate zone terms. While it may drop to -10f in Nashville it wont stay that cold for an extended period like it can in the great lakes region, but to me its a really interesting idea to me at least to think that there is another place in Canada other than Vancouver that the cold heartiest palm trees could theoretically survive i.e. it's southern most tip.

Edit*(I didn't notice that north 42 had already expanded on to the point i was trying to make which makes the previous addition a little bit moot, but thats what i get for trying to post on my Iphone haha. But i felt it was important to expand on what i was sayin but at the same time temper it by adding in that while the lakes protect certain areas from getting the kind of extreme low temps that the rest of the region is known for during its coldest winters and of how odd it may seem to be able to grow Magnolia's and other cold hearty "tropical" plants in small pockets of SW Ontario and SE Michigan and the West Coast of MI all the way up to Glen Arbor. However as mentioned before if you do want to grow cold hearties in this area you need to be mindful that while for the most part the marine influence insulates certain areas as we all know once you think you've seen it all in terms of weather here that's when you will be surprised so an eye to the sky is needed so to speak and protection in certain extreme events may also be necessary)

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  #347  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:11 PM
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So you could grow Southern Magnolia trees in Glen Arbor but not Traverse city?

That's very interesting.
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  #348  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 3:18 PM
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So you could grow Southern Magnolia trees in Glen Arbor but not Traverse city?

That's very interesting.
Yes it does seem to be possible prolly because of the way the prevailing winds in that area in winter will be blowing from the lake especially during cold snaps but because there is higher terrain the further inland you go and traverse city is separated from the main coast line by the Leelanau Peninsula the effects of the marine influence are mitigated to a degree. It also seems to have some correlation to the snow belt areas which makes since because of how lake effect snow is created that the areas down wind would have their temp's moderated by the marine influence and cloud cover protecting from radational cooling during the night.

Another example of how complicated and localized great lakes influenced weather patterns can get is if you look about mid way up the west coast of MI the Ludington area doesn't seem to have much marine insulation at all and 5b climate zone seems to get right up to the coast there. However it certainly does get heavy lake effect snow but the area to the west of Traverse City is known as an area that can get extra enhancement from lake effect events because of the shape of the coast the shape of the lake offshore and a continuation of moisture picked up from lake superior that is recharged over lake MI because of the prevailing winds.

I was looking for this article about super enhancement zones of lake effect snow which seems to have some correlation to the 6b going all the way up to Glen Arbor at least from my amateur meteorologists glance, although i wasn't able to find it quickly enough before i lost interest
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  #349  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 6:22 PM
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speaking of magnolias, they are all blooming now





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  #350  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2017, 11:59 AM
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Well, it has been a while since I posted here.

I was in Vancouver in the summer and had to take some pictures of the local palm trees in and around Vancouver

Enjoy!

First stop is the classic spot, English Bay.

Blue Sky Vancouver by Ian, on Flickr

English Bay Palm Trees by Ian, on Flickr

English Bay Summer by Ian, on Flickr

Davie Street Palms by Ian, on Flickr

My personal favorite of the set. I love this small pocket park.

Vancouver Palm Trees by Ian, on Flickr

Summer Palms, Vancouver by Ian, on Flickr

Denman Palms by Ian, on Flickr

A nice pair along Denman outside of a coffee shop.

Sitting Under Palms by Ian, on Flickr

A few in North Vancouver near the Sea Bus.

North Shore Palms by Ian, on Flickr

Walking Between Palms by Ian, on Flickr

Last but not least these two on King Edward Street are of decent size.

Vancouver Palm Trees by Ian, on Flickr

I also recently learned of a local Vancouverite who is selling palms locally (and who also plans on donating some to the city in the future for other parks). Here is the website if interested: http://www.paradisepalms.ca/
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Last edited by Metro-One; Dec 12, 2017 at 2:55 PM.
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  #351  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2018, 2:55 PM
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Cool Palms in southern cape breton coast

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Originally Posted by jayc View Post
Just wanted to share that I do grow different exotics in Sydney on Cape Breton Island. Here is the only pic I can find right now of one of my Waggy's. I do grow Musa Basjoo, Fatsia Japonica, Moso Bamboo, and three variants of Trachycarpus also. (Wagnerianus, Fortunei, and the Hybrid cross between them both).

As of winter protection, all I do is put 3 rebar in ground surrounding the palms and wrap burlap around the bars. No heat, and nothing wrapped around the palm physically and just throw some pine bark nuggets around the trunk. I was hoping to have them unwrapped by now, but with this out of the blue late storm we had last week, there is approx a one foot drift around them and I don't want to walk through it So looks like I'll have to wait till the beginning of April to unwrap.

Here is the waggy in my backyard:

I also have a fortunei planted in the ground with a small building/trees offering protection from north winds during the winter. Overall id classify my zone as a 7a zone since the coldest temperature measured where we are on the coast was -12 on two occasions since 2010. With the usual being -5 for one day and then +5 or 6 for 2 days. Our first frost was decemeber 15 last year and our last frost was april 10th 2018.
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  #352  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 11:58 AM
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Halifax to test resilience of palm trees in 'pretty harsh' winter climate

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HALIFAX -- Atlantic Canada's largest city has a new, and highly unlikely, tropical flavour.

Nine palm trees have been planted in four Halifax parks, although the jury is out on whether they can survive winter in a North Atlantic city known as the Warden of the North.

The parks, all on the Dartmouth side of Halifax Harbour, now feature cold-hardy palm varieties that can grow in more northerly climates of Asia like China and Japan, or from areas of the continent with high altitudes such as northern India.

The varieties include windmill and miniature Chusan palm, which are native to parts of Asia; needle palm, which is found in the southern U.S. states like Florida; and pindo palm, native to South America.

Municipal horticulturalist Chris Poole said aside from wanting to see if the palms can survive, it's also part of his job to create public interest and to encourage people to enjoy the city's public spaces.

"I think by planting these palms around we've certainly achieved that and more," said Poole, who noted windmill palms as a tall variety that look like a typical palm tree.

"They are certainly the ones that are creating the most buzz because when you take one look at them it just looks as if you are in a different part of the world," he said.

(note: photo from above article)
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  #353  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by capebreton7a View Post
I also have a fortunei planted in the ground with a small building/trees offering protection from north winds during the winter. Overall id classify my zone as a 7a zone since the coldest temperature measured where we are on the coast was -12 on two occasions since 2010. With the usual being -5 for one day and then +5 or 6 for 2 days. Our first frost was decemeber 15 last year and our last frost was april 10th 2018.
i've got one of these, i'm in a heat island in what is ostensibly/technically 6b, but we have crepe myrtles and other southern species here in st. louis. what is that, a latitude at like 1000 miles north of me? interesting.
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  #354  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 5:13 PM
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i've got one of these, i'm in a heat island in what is ostensibly/technically 6b, but we have crepe myrtles and other southern species here in st. louis. what is that, a latitude at like 1000 miles north of me? interesting.
The Nova Scotia Atlantic coast is more marine influenced than St. Louis. It is colder overall but it has relatively warm winters and cold summers. There are places in Nova Scotia with nighttime lows that are about the same as St. Louis in winter but where summer temperatures are only around 20 C or 70 F. People in these places consider 80 F to be a heat wave.

We'll see how well this works out for the palm trees.

I think it's a roll of the dice and that the palm trees would do fine on a good winter and poorly during a bad winter. If they get well-established through a few non-terrible winters they might be fine indefinitely. Last winter in the Halifax urban area the coldest it got was about -15 C or 5 F for a nighttime low. -20 in recent years has become rare.
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  #355  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
i've got one of these, i'm in a heat island in what is ostensibly/technically 6b, but we have crepe myrtles and other southern species here in st. louis. what is that, a latitude at like 1000 miles north of me? interesting.
Canada is some far off distant land in the American consciousness but by latitude, Halifax (44.6488° N) is 425 miles north of St. Louis. Both Minneapolis and Portland, Oregon are more northerly than Halifax.
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  #356  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 4:24 PM
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that was me eyeballing google maps which i had no business trying, since flat projections are horribly distorted. combine that with the oceanic influence and i can see that. my climate (temperature) has a 99% similarity to xi'an, china according to an algorithm i came across...sure enough there are palms, there. halifax was much hard to pin down...getting lots of mountain west locales, maine, latvia, norway, japan, nothing was a 99% match.
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  #357  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2018, 11:10 PM
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The easiest conversion I came across was 113 km per degree of latitude. Then divide by 1.6 for miles. This graphic helps as well:

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  #358  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 4:13 AM
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Some pics I took a couple weeks ago while I was visiting Vancouver.

Here is one of my favorite stands of Windmill Palms in Vancouver.

At Sunset Beach Park where Jervis St. meets Beach Ave.

Palms at Sunset Beach by Ian, on Flickr

Palms at Sunset Beach by Ian, on Flickr

Palms at Sunset Beach by Ian, on Flickr

Palms at Sunset Beach by Ian, on Flickr

And a couple nice ones in front of an apartment on Beach Ave.

Between Two Palms by Ian, on Flickr
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  #359  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2018, 1:40 PM
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heh. reminiscent of san diego or something.
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  #360  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2018, 8:15 AM
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